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Getting rid of location hit points.


Conrad

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If there were optional rules in Mythras for getting rid of locational hit points, replacing them with general ones (generated by Con plus SIZ/2) would you use those rules instead? Do you think such rules would encourage more folk to run Mythras? 

Edited by Conrad
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http://www.basicrps.com/core/BRP_quick_start.pdf A sense of humour and an imagination go a long way in roleplaying. ;)
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As for myself, I prefer generic hit points with "Major Wounds" when you lose more than X hit points on a hi, à la StormBringer. I also prefer that those hit points represent fatigue rather than actual wounds.

There was a rule in Mongoose RQII for NPCs that used generic HP. I don't know if it still exists in Legend.

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2 hours ago, soltakss said:

Personally, no, as I cannot understand why you wouldn't want to use Hit Locations.

 http://designmechanism.freeforums.org/gm-notation-query-t2012.html

Edited by Conrad
http://www.basicrps.com/core/BRP_quick_start.pdf A sense of humour and an imagination go a long way in roleplaying. ;)
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17 minutes ago, clarence said:

M-SPACE has an optional section with simplified combat. They only have 11 Special Effects and no hit locations. Most of my players care very little for combat and they find the simplified rules quick and easy. 

I'm all for simpler rulesets. :)

http://www.basicrps.com/core/BRP_quick_start.pdf A sense of humour and an imagination go a long way in roleplaying. ;)
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Currently playing in a game without hit locations. I'm missing them greatly. I suspect some of it has to do with hit point escalation (playing in a 5e game) but frankly the lack of an option to take out a limb has me squirming a bit. I'm pretty sure this would go for my group as well

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We are currently doing M Space with the simplified Hit Points. However, I did a solo game with hit location HP and it's fairly simple to grok. I think I prefer that because it allows more options and effects in combat than the standard RPG method of Hit Points. This is especially true of my players, who like to go for limbs and the head a lot in D&D but can't because it isn't supported.

The thing about simple is that there are two types of simple rules. There are intuitive rules and there are bare bones rules, and many people confuse the two. Bare bones are just that, simple rules that cover a great deal of options and issues without a complexity or depth to them. You trade out options for ease of play and cover any exceptions with rulings over rules. That can work for a variety of things and has some definite pros, like easier accessibility to a game both for new people and getting into the game quicker, but I find that they lack a certain depth to them that makes the game less interesting. There are also intuitive rules, which are rules that have a wealth of depth to them without becoming convoluted. They take a bit more to understand, but they follow a set pattern with much of the other rules, but still add that amount of options and tactics for those that want it. Most of the simple games out there like FATE or several of the OSR retroclones don't really interest me much mechanically because the rules feel very shallow or generic to me and the options and choices don't feel very meaningful to me.

I find Mythras to be fairly intuitive at many points, even with the amount of rules here and there. And I think that with M Space, Mythras, Mythras Initiative, and now Classic Fantasy, the game has a great deal of modular pieces for rules that you can use to simplify or escalate your rules how you like. That's how I've been doing it with my M Space game. We started with the Simplified Combat, but have since slowly introduced more special effects and hit locations because my players and I like the more tactical options it provides us. But we also love the Extended Conflicts in the game because it adds a noticeable spectrum to non-combat conflicts that to us, make it more exciting. So I think for me, Mythras works because it's not overly simplified like FATE, or overly convoluted like GURPS, but rather it is modular. You can take what you want piecemeal and have a game as easy or tactical as you want and still have a game with a great deal of depth to it. And that's what I want in a game, is depth.

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I've never found hit locations to be a problem (except in the last group I was in we rolled a LOT of "left leg" hit locations). 

What advantage do you see in removing that rule? Do you have players or a GM who are using that as their excuse to not play Mythras?

I mean, it's just one extra die roll on a non-parried hit. Now in Classic RQ, you tracked both overall hits AND hits in location, but I never had a problem with that, either.

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i am running m-space as well with my group. we started off without hit locations and it went fine. the following 2 games we ran with hit locations and i am finding my group is a totally different play style with the hit locations versus the no hit locations. after the first player lost an arm on 1 shot they are way more cautious about firefights now. it isnt about cutting down the hit points now. its about being more strategical. you might try it just for a game and see how it works for you and your group. as far as simplicity every game its gets quicker and more fast paced than the last. either way good luck with whatever you decide. also for me i modified the hit location rule and just reversed the to hit die to see wher the hit locations would be.

01-15 Head
16-30 Right Arm
31-45 Left Arm
46-70 Chest
71-80 Abdomen
81-90 Right Leg
91-100 Left leg

 

Edited by heathd666
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Going without hit-locations is perfectly viable.

Some prefer one way, some prefer the other.

By keeping both, as mutually-compatible options, you get everyone.

Eliminating hit-locations would lose a non-trivial portion of the fan-base; if I had to guess, I'd guess it'd be a bigger portion than eliminating the "general hp only" option.

 

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In my Pulp CoC 7E we use good optional rules for this: Typically we only roll the Hit Location Table if a Major Wound is scored (half HP). Then the PC makes a CON% (really a CONx5%) roll; failure indicates some form of impairment or incapacitation, depending upon what Limb location is rolled.

No specific Limb HP at all; just Total HP.

It works well for this setting, as most melee combat is much quicker like this; it's mainly fist fights and bar room brawls, so it doesn't make sense to keep rolling Hit Locations here.

However when using firearms there is a reasonable chance that a Major Wound is scored, so then it becomes important where someone got shot, and how capable they are after that.

So it works really well for in a Pulp Action setting, and I think you could do it with Mythras just as easily as with any of the other BRP games. However for settings that focus more on gladiatorial style melee combat then I would definitely keep Hit Locations as they are, it feels much better for me. 

Edited by Mankcam
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" Sure it's fun, but it is also well known that a D20 roll and an AC is no match against a hefty swing of a D100% and a D20 Hit Location Table!"

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10 hours ago, pachristian said:

I've never found hit locations to be a problem (except in the last group I was in we rolled a LOT of "left leg" hit locations). 

Hey, you playing in my group? we had a streak of that

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Hit Locations are quite firmly baked into the system, which means we're unlikely to include an optional set of General Hit Points rules in Mythras. It would require rewriting several other sections to fully accommodate the change to game play, which leads to several sets of optional rules scattered across the rulebook. 

As Clarence says, M Space has some optional rules for simplified combat, so it's easy enough to lift those if needed. Mugen, yes, Mythras still retains rules for Rabble and Underlings which is what you're referring to from MRQII.

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The Design Mechanism: Publishers of Mythras

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When I briefly played an old edition of CoC, 25+ years ago, I did not miss hit locations.  That is a game where avoiding combat is generally a really good idea.

When switching from AD&D to RQ3, one of the things I liked best was hit locations, and the more realistic combat that came with that rule.

When switching to RQ6/Mythras a few years ago, one of the first things I noticed was that the general HP total was gone, but that hit locations remained.  I thought I would miss the general HP, because I liked the realism of "a pile of minor wounds can still kill you", but in fact I do not miss it at all.  It required extra bookkeeping, and the centrality of Special Effects--particularly Bleed--in Mythras handles that piece of realism.

Even if it would not break anything (but Loz notes that it would, basically, and I of course agree), personally I would not want to run Mythras without using hit locations, especially considering the frequency of combat in our home game.

 

Edited by Matt_E
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I totally agree.

One of the strengths of RuneQuest (and Mythras) is the tactile nature of melee combat. Most other games I have played seem to feel lacking with this feeling, so I would consider Hit Locations an essential part of any setting which has a focus on hand to hand combat. 

These days its not so much about having one system to do everything, its more about matching game mechanics to setting and flavour. We used to play completely different systems for this, but these days we can stick with BRP as a core system and go to many different varieties of the system and use it for whatever setting we want to run. Great days indeed.

I am unsure if I would use Mythras for an investigative game, or even a pulpy or action-paced game. I am not saying that it cannot do these things, but it's strengths lay elsewhere. For a setting with a focus on hand-to-hand combat, it really does shine, just like RuneQuest does; perhaps more so with the special combat effects.

Mythic Britain is the perfect example of this, with all the muddy and bloody glory of a Bernard Cornwell novel or HBO Vikings series. So if playing any setting like this with Mythras, then Hit Locations are a must-have in my opinion.

Edited by Mankcam
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" Sure it's fun, but it is also well known that a D20 roll and an AC is no match against a hefty swing of a D100% and a D20 Hit Location Table!"

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