quicktstart Quickstart Rune Magic & Spirit Magic

[g33k]

On 7/12/2017 at 5:19 PM, jajagappa said:

My working of spirit magic goes along that line.  Your priest or shaman brings you into contact with a spirit that has a particular power (i.e. a spirit magic such as Bladesharp).  The spirit teaches you how to invoke the magic and the focus needed for it.  Most people will carve or mark the focus into something: a weapon, a tattoo upon the body, a ring or bracelet, etc.  By focusing on the mark and following the invocation (maybe a word or two, a gesture, a brief melody), the caster channels a portion of their innate self (magic points) into the world to achieve the magic.  There may or may not be a taboo involved depending upon the spirit who taught you (essentially you are making some bargain to learn the magic - either directly with the spirit or with your god as the god commands many various lesser spirits).  You are limited in how many spirit magics you may learn by your charisma/leadership because you are having to convince more and more spirits to teach you and there are inherent conflicts and rivalries between these spirits that you must overcome.

This differs from the various forms of enchantment where you physically bind the spirit to some object and command the spirit to perform the action.  Similarly allied spirits and awakened animals are a type of bound spirit that represent gifts from your god or shaman.  In both these cases, the spirit is under your control and command and do not represent magics that you are learning but that you release.

 

I really REALLY love the flavor of this!  It has that "Gloranthan" feel to my sensibilities.   HOWEVER ...

IMHO, it adds too much complexity / bookkeeping to "Battle Magic," which should be kept simple/playable...

• THESE spells have their foci set into a bracer on the fore-arm, and can be lost/stolen/etc
• THOSE are tattoo-foci, and cannot be removed without a knife.

Player should (and if they don't, GM should) keep track of which are which...?

• This spell has "Taboo:  must not have eaten meat within the past 24 hours."
• Those spells have "Taboo:  must have (intentionally) eaten insects within the past 24 hours."
• That spell has "Taboo:  never wear green."
• T'other spell has no taboo at all.

Again -- the bookkeeping to track that wonderful Gloranthan color becomes onerous.  LessGF.

Again -- I REALLY love the "Glorantha-ness" of this idea; and if I can find (or be shown) a non-onerous way to incorporate these ideas, I'd love to do so!  But also, if this made it into RQG... 'cos I'm not likely to HR it in...

[Yelm's Light]

A curiosity question:  If the focus is visible (on weapon, shield, skin, whatever) would another practitioner of the same spell be able to recognize it as such, or do foci vary by cult?  (I would think that at least someone with that spell from the same cult would.)

This could have some minor effects on strategy.

[kaydet]

@g33k While I agree that things should not be needlessly complex, Runequest is not the game to turn to for simplicity.

[Psullie]

3 hours ago, g33k said:

I really REALLY love the flavor of this!  It has that "Gloranthan" feel to my sensibilities.   HOWEVER ...

IMHO, it adds too much complexity / bookkeeping to "Battle Magic," which should be kept simple/playable...

• THESE spells have their foci set into a bracer on the fore-arm, and can be lost/stolen/etc
• THOSE are tattoo-foci, and cannot be removed without a knife.

Player should (and if they don't, GM should) keep track of which are which...?

• This spell has "Taboo:  must not have eaten meat within the past 24 hours."
• Those spells have "Taboo:  must have (intentionally) eaten insects within the past 24 hours."
• That spell has "Taboo:  never wear green."
• T'other spell has no taboo at all.

Again -- the bookkeeping to track that wonderful Gloranthan color becomes onerous.  LessGF.

Again -- I REALLY love the "Glorantha-ness" of this idea; and if I can find (or be shown) a non-onerous way to incorporate these ideas, I'd love to do so!  But also, if this made it into RQG... 'cos I'm not likely to HR it in...

I think this models Rune Magic rather than BattleSpirtGarden Magic

But yes very Gloranthan

[Psullie]

1 hour ago, Yelm's Light said:

A curiosity question:  If the focus is visible (on weapon, shield, skin, whatever) would another practitioner of the same spell be able to recognize it as such, or do foci vary by cult?  (I would think that at least someone with that spell from the same cult would.)

This could have some minor effects on strategy.

I generally saw foci as aide de memoire, something you used to assist concentration. Other peoples foci would have no resonance or meaning and therefore useless to anyone but themselves. As for the recognition, I imagine many would be runes or stylised runes, for example the Air rune on your sword might be your foci for Bladesharp, but on my spear could be a foci for Mobility.

[jajagappa]

3 hours ago, g33k said:

IMHO, it adds too much complexity / bookkeeping to "Battle Magic," which should be kept simple/playable..

Totally agree, and I wouldn't explicitly use unless there was some MGF aspect to adding taboos (I'd likely only do that to spells learned from a shaman rather than the cult temple).  It will be interesting to see whether the foci are referenced in the new rules.

21 minutes ago, Psullie said:

I think this models Rune Magic rather than BattleSpirtGarden Magic

Actually, I don't think that models Rune Magic.  As noted in the Quickstart p.20, "When an adventurer casts Rune magic, the caster acts as the deity. The caster imitates the deeds of the deity and thereby evokes the deity’s power. The caster always exhibits some form of manifestation of the deity while casting the spell."

You may well concentrate on a rune tattooed upon you or on some object or pray or envision a 'quest', but here you are acting as your god (in effect becoming an avatar of the deity for that period of time).

[Psullie]

15 hours ago, jajagappa said:

Actually, I don't think that models Rune Magic.  As noted in the Quickstart p.20, "When an adventurer casts Rune magic, the caster acts as the deity. The caster imitates the deeds of the deity and thereby evokes the deity’s power. The caster always exhibits some form of manifestation of the deity while casting the spell."

Hi jajagappa, I referring to how one acquires the magic rather than casts it, in that a religious functionary 'introduces' you to the knowledge.

I like how the QS describe the awesome nature of a Rune Spell, even momentarily taking on aspects of the deity. However I find it odd that channelling your divine power, which should be a momentous occasion in a game warranting attention, seems to take no time at all. I get the MGF and that the power of Rune Magic means that it kicks off first, but I can imagine many a future discussion with players who upon seeing their arch nemesis channel Thed or the Red Goddess shouting I attack before she finishes etc. 

 

[jajagappa]

3 hours ago, Psullie said:

I referring to how one acquires the magic rather than casts it, in that a religious functionary 'introduces' you to the knowledge.

While the temples and priests provide their cult members to both Spirit and Rune magic (or Sorcery even in the case of Lhankor Mhy), and so involve the same individuals at the same locations, I see the acquisition of those as distinct, and part of why the two magics are different.

With spirit magic, the priests are largely performing a function - it's like giving a blessing to those who come with the right offerings.  And this could be granted to both initiates and lay members.  Similarly with sorcery, the initiate are taught the ancient techniques and given access to the sacred grimoires of power.

But with rune magic, the priests are leading the initiates into the stories, myths, and mysteries of the cult.  It's an understanding of what it means to BE the deity, to follow in their footsteps.

3 hours ago, Psullie said:

However I find it odd that channelling your divine power, which should be a momentous occasion in a game warranting attention, seems to take no time at all.

It does occur quickly (but that's always been the case).  However, now that casting is tied to your percent ability in the Rune, if you want to ensure greater success, there's an incentive to use ceremony or other augments that mean you'll spend time to draw on those (and which should make it more momentous than the automatic casting of RQ2).

[g33k]

On 7/14/2017 at 1:17 PM, jajagappa said:

Totally agree, and I wouldn't explicitly use unless there was some MGF aspect to adding taboos (I'd likely only do that to spells learned from a shaman rather than the cult temple)...

As-presented in your inspirational bit above, the spell is taught by a spirit.

I can't see why a spirit summoned by a temple would do the job all that differently than a spirit summoned by a Shaman.  I only expect the temple-spirit Focus/ Taboo/ Geas/ Etc/ Whatever/  to be Cultic-flavored, as the spirit is probably an adherent of the deity in question (whereas the Shaman would be liable to take any-old-spirit that could get the job done, and THAT spirit might have any manner of odd restriction...).

To be clear:  I very much DO see this as "MGF," but also as a very-mixed-bag inextricably-linked to LessGF.

[jajagappa]

49 minutes ago, g33k said:

I can't see why a spirit summoned by a temple would do the job all that differently than a spirit summoned by a Shaman.  I only expect the temple-spirit Focus/ Taboo/ Geas/ Etc/ Whatever/  to be Cultic-flavored

The cult spirit has less 'free will'.  They agreed to the terms of the god for protection, or whatever, so can't go imposing their own terms (beyond cult taboos, geases, etc as you note).

[styopa]

1 hour ago, g33k said:

As-presented in your inspirational bit above, the spell is taught by a spirit.

I can't see why a spirit summoned by a temple would do the job all that differently than a spirit summoned by a Shaman.  I only expect the temple-spirit Focus/ Taboo/ Geas/ Etc/ Whatever/  to be Cultic-flavored, as the spirit is probably an adherent of the deity in question (whereas the Shaman would be liable to take any-old-spirit that could get the job done, and THAT spirit might have any manner of odd restriction...).

To be clear:  I very much DO see this as "MGF," but also as a very-mixed-bag inextricably-linked to LessGF.

That's why you don't want to learn spells from just any spirit off the street...you have no idea where they've been....