New RuneQuest Design Note, #17

[MOB]

A new RuneQuest Design Notes from Jeff, outlining some of the refinements to the rules we're making, based on the Free RPG Day feedback:

http://www.chaosium.com/blog/designing-the-new-runequest-part-17

[Mankcam]

So am I reading this correct?

In regards to Rune Magic, you now  get a Rune Pt for every POW sacrificed to the Deity, which you can use to access a specific Special Rune Spell, decreed at the time you sacrifice that POW Pt to the Deity.

In addition to this you can still use the Rune Pt to perform ANY of the Spells from the Common Rune Magic list - so no change here, its just the Special Rune Spells that must be individually acquired?

This seems alot little less variable than what we have been reading in the previous development blogs, although it feels more in keeping with the original RQ concept. 

I think I prefer it better as it is still quite free-form in regards to the common rune spells, yet places more importance of rune powers specific to a particular deity.

Plus it does take some guess work out for newbies. 

It's a slight change from the previous idea, but I think it may work better. Still sounds fun, I like it.

BTW I love these sketches

Edited June 25, 2017 by Mankcam

[Jeff]

2 hours ago, Mankcam said:

So am I reading this correct?

In regards to Rune Magic, you now  get a Rune Pt for every POW sacrificed to the Deity, which you can use to access a specific Special Rune Spell, decreed at the time you sacrifice that POW Pt to the Deity.

In addition to this you can still use the Rune Pt to perform ANY of the Spells from the Common Rune Magic list - so no change here, its just the Special Rune Spells that must be individually acquired?

This seems alot little less variable than what we have been reading in the previous development blogs, although it feels more in keeping with the original RQ concept. 

I think I prefer it better as it is still quite free-form in regards to the common rune spells, yet places more importance of rune powers specific to a particular deity.

Plus it does take some guess work out for newbies. 

It's a slight change from the previous idea, but I think it may work better. Still sounds fun, I like it.

BTW I love these sketches

As I think I said in the notes, my concern was watching the decision blockage many newbies had by having too many unfamiliar options. It isn't intended to "balance" the game (that's done by the limited number of Rune points and the difficulty in replenishing them), but just make the learning curve easier (and has the advantage that it gives you a reason to write your special rune magic on the character sheet). 

The common magic spells don't have the same concerns as they are all the same, and are either general cult stuff (Command Cult Spirit, Divination, or Sanctify), magic about magic (Extension, Multispell, etc.), or generic spells (Find Enemy, Heal Wounds, Soul Sight, Spirit Block, and Warding).

[Mankcam]

Well whatever the reasoning, these rules seem to just sit better with me. I agree that it will be a little easier for new people to grasp, which is a big plus.

Like you say, it also has the advantage of further refining the character sheet by having distinctive magic written on it. Otherwise the equivalent for weapons on the sheet would be 'Orlanthi Weapons' or 'Silver Sword Regiment Training' for instance. I don't mind that, but considering it sounds like its more likely these things will be recorded as 'Broadsword' or 'Medium Shield'l for instance, then it makes sense not to record magic as simply 'Humakt Cult Rune Magic', but to write 'Sever Spirit' or something specific like that in the Rune Magic section. 

Common Rune Magic being presented as an array of powers that anyone with a Rune Pt can evoke, whereas Special Rune Magic is more specific in approach. Sounds like the best of both worlds, I think most people will like it.

 

Edited June 25, 2017 by Mankcam

[jongjom]

It also looks like this new rule also improves the compatibility of RQG with the RQ2 supplements with character stats blocks and their list of Rune spells?

Edited June 25, 2017 by jongjom
spelling

[Byll]

Nice character sketches, maybe Roman and Chaosium could produce a Pimp-my-PC app for 'customising' your tattoos, bling and muscle development from a set of drop-down menus. Or we could continue to sketch our own :-) , unfortunately we don't all have the same talent and creativity.

[styopa]

9 hours ago, Mankcam said:

In regards to Rune Magic, you now  get a Rune Pt for every POW sacrificed to the Deity, which you can use to access a specific Special Rune Spell, decreed at the time you sacrifice that POW Pt to the Deity.

In addition to this you can still use the Rune Pt to perform ANY of the Spells from the Common Rune Magic list - so no change here, its just the Special Rune Spells that must be individually acquired?

 

I read it slightly differently?

You can use your RP to cast any of the common spells.

You sacrifice your RP to your cult to add a spell from your cult's specific list to that list of spells you can use RP for.  (So it's not that the spell points sacrificed for a spell have to be used FOR THAT SPELL.  They just add them to the pool of potential uses for your RP.)

MOB said "...you get to pick another spell for each additional point spent..." I *presume* that's per-point, and stackables are limited to what you bought into.

ie if Sever Spirit's a 3 point divine spell, it would take the sacrificing of 3 POW for 3RP = able to pick it and add to the list.  

In the second case, I'd presume that if you have 5 RP, and sacrifice 1 POW to Orlanth for Lightning, then you would be capped at Lightning I, not immediately able to cast Lightning VI.

(These are obviously all details that are likely laid out in the full rules.  At this rate, we're going to have dissected every single page of the new rules before they're even published.)

[Jeff]

Actually, you are making it more complex than it is. At chargen you pick three special Rune spells (or more if you sacrificed additional points of POW for additional Rune points). Not three "points" of Rune magic, but three spells. If you pick a stackable spell, you can stack it. You get Shield, not Shield 1, then Shield 2, etc. If you pick a three-point Rune spell, great! It just means that one of your spells requires all your starting Rune points to cast. If you sacrifice for another Rune point, you can take another spell - one point, two point, three point, stackable, no difference.

This is NOT intended to be a balancing mechanism (balance is provided by the limited number of Rune points). It is merely intended to make the spell options manageable for new players.

[Psullie]

"Fortunately, we've solved it. Now during chargen, your character starts with three special rune spells from your cult (and subcult if relevant): one for each Rune point you have. If you spent points of POW to acquire additional Rune points, you get to pick another spell for each additional point spent."

Jeff, this sounds really great, captures the feel of RQ2 while being more playable and reinforces the importance of choosing your cult 

[Sayerson]

Waiting to see what is in the final release. Still curious how DI is handled for rune priests in the 'new' rune magic.

Edited June 26, 2017 by Sayerson
Less productive earlier

[Atgxtg]

Is the free RPG Day PDF available one line somewhere? I missed out of Free RPG Day, and would like to get a copy.

[Sayerson]

July 1st 2017 on Chaosium.com

[g33k]

3 hours ago, Atgxtg said:

Is the free RPG Day PDF available one line somewhere? I missed out of Free RPG Day, and would like to get a copy.

As @Sayerson says -- generally available on 1 July.  GM's who belong to the "Cult of Chaos" Organized Play program can get it now, I believe.

 

[Atgxtg]

Thanks. Only 6 days to wait!

[daskindt]

The refinements sound solid.

The general changes to Rune Magic are a huge improvement over RQ2/3 and address some of my biggest complaints with RuneQuest as a rule system to experience Glorantha. I think the revised proposal will strike a nice balance in helping to not overload players with options, but still giving great flexibility when it comes to access to Rune Magic.

[Paid a bod yn dwp]

Makes sense not to overload new players with large amounts of spells straight away. I think also for new or inexperienced Gm's, having  large amounts of spells to keep track of can be quite daunting with regards to NPC's. Its important to ease new players and Gm's into the game first. Hopefully we'll see a number of introductory adventures launched soon after the core rules to ease new players into the game system. I think once new players and Gm's become more familiar with the RuneQuest spells and how they work, it soon becomes less of an issue. 

Edited June 26, 2017 by Paid a bod yn dwp

[Mankcam]

Yes it feels somehow like the RQ2 magic we were meant to have, before we all went our own ways tweaking it to work better. These rules feel good to me.

[Joerg]

I have remained silent so far, simply enjoying the fact that my house rule has mostly been made official. I used to be a little bit stingier on common divine spells, but I am fine with this. My main reason for demanding specific sacrifices to add a spell to the rune pool is that each directed "sacrifice" of permanent POW rather is a transfer to that spiritual organ Greg keeps telling us about, that part of the soul already anchored in the divine realm. Tying this to a defined "practice heroquest" feels right to me.

When I look at the associate cult passages in RQ3, there are numerous instances of associate cults granting some common divine spell to the worshipper. Will this be re-defined, or will these be opportunities for a character to regain rune points through worship as associate initiiate in that other cult's rites?

[g33k]

23 hours ago, Jeff said:

Actually, you are making it more complex than it is. At chargen you pick three special Rune spells (or more if you sacrificed additional points of POW for additional Rune points). Not three "points" of Rune magic, but three spells. If you pick a stackable spell, you can stack it. You get Shield, not Shield 1, then Shield 2, etc. If you pick a three-point Rune spell, great! It just means that one of your spells requires all your starting Rune points to cast. If you sacrifice for another Rune point, you can take another spell - one point, two point, three point, stackable, no difference.

This is NOT intended to be a balancing mechanism (balance is provided by the limited number of Rune points). It is merely intended to make the spell options manageable for new players.

The "spell options" overhead is still there ...but not at-the-table / during-play.  It's front-loaded to character generation, and deferred to "downtime" activity, alongside skill-checks &c...

[Jeff]

6 minutes ago, g33k said:

The "spell options" overhead is still there ...but not at-the-table / during-play.  It's front-loaded to character generation, and deferred to "downtime" activity, alongside skill-checks &c...

Where it isn't a really a problem. It is a much bigger problem having folk get mentally paralyzed and thus loosing the flow during combat or other exciting activity because they can't figure out what spell is appropriate.

[g33k]

1 minute ago, Jeff said:

Where it isn't a really a problem. It is a much bigger problem having folk get mentally paralyzed and thus loosing the flow during combat or other exciting activity because they can't figure out what spell is appropriate.

Exactly!  And thus an excellent design choice.

But it's worth noting that it's still THERE, and (for example) something experienced players/GMs should expect to help newbies with, when building characters.  Not a unique problem, of course... many (most?) RPGs with magic have the same issues.  

 

[Jeff]

2 minutes ago, g33k said:

Exactly!  And thus an excellent design choice.

But it's worth noting that it's still THERE, and (for example) something experienced players/GMs should expect to help newbies with, when building characters.  Not a unique problem, of course... many (most?) RPGs with magic have the same issues.  

 

Oh I agree. Jason cleverly added a list of "suggested starting special rune spells" to the cults part of chargen to help with that. 

In last night's game, my players showed off the flexibility of the system to take down Morganeth Rune Star in ritual combat at the Pairing Stones. Of course they ambushed her and did the RuneQuest equivalent of a sucker punch, but it pleased me to no end. 

[styopa]

1 hour ago, g33k said:

Exactly!  And thus an excellent design choice.

But it's worth noting that it's still THERE, and (for example) something experienced players/GMs should expect to help newbies with, when building characters.  Not a unique problem, of course... many (most?) RPGs with magic have the same issues.  

Who hasn't had a new player sit at the session with NO knowledge of the game at all and say "OK, I've read the background stuff, I want to be a sorcerer"?

[Jeff]

7 minutes ago, styopa said:

Who hasn't had a new player sit at the session with NO knowledge of the game at all and say "OK, I've read the background stuff, I want to be a sorcerer"?

In all the years of playing RQ3 (and the many playtests of RQG) - not once if it was not campaign appropriate.

[styopa]

1 hour ago, Jeff said:

 

 

Edited June 26, 2017 by styopa