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Guide to Glorantha Group Read Week 1


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On 27/06/2017 at 11:44 AM, Steve said:

p10 - OMG! I could spend hours looking at this picture of the world. [...] Who is the artistic force behind this one, @David Scott? I too was wondering about those branched-off bits on the SQ and E and their depth, as already raised earlier in the thread (not saying it's wrong, just intrigued and got me thinking). Did I mention that I love this art? Drool ...

This is by Bernard Bittler with elements from Eric Vanel's Outer Realms map.

Here's an early art direction sketch showing the Sky Dome Pillars as pillars not figures for @Joerg

59550a6a4f074_Cosmologicalreferencecropped.jpg.a449beb9df4d8df3ab4dd0b26f8342ab.jpg

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21 minutes ago, AlbertG said:

Maybe this will be answered on a future weekly read, but each time I see The Cosmology of Glorantha image in page 10, I wonder how long are the days and the nights in a Gloranthan day.

For instance, does it take Yelm the same time to travel acroos the Earth than it takes to cross the underworld? Does he speed up at some point? The image gives the idea that both paths are more or less the same length, but is this real? Could the Underworld's Sun Path be shorter, giving more hours of day than hours of night?

What about seasons? Does Yelm change his speed according to season?

Question, questions...

Perhaps you need to play with this first: 

http://www.glorantha.com/docs/the-movable-ephemeris-and-the-gloranthan-sky/

 

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7 hours ago, AlbertG said:

Thanks, but it does now work in any of my browsers, nor do I know how to run it as a java app :(

Same here (with respect to the browser), but I was able to run it as an app:

  • download the ZIP file
  • unpack the ZIP file into a new folder
  • run java -cp <the new folder> EphemerisII

Sorry, I did detect the new thread regarding this issue too late. Any further discussion about this application should be happen there now.

Edited by Oracle
app discussion moved to new thread
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9 hours ago, AlbertG said:

Thanks, but it does now work in any of my browsers, nor do I know how to run it as a java app :(

I found I had to perform two steps to get this to work in Chrome.

1) enable npapi support

There used to be a Chrome answer with this but can't currently find it.  However, these instructions should work: https://www.carnegielearning.com/pages/tech-support/3030

2) update exception list for Java

You can find the information on getting to the Java Control Panel here: https://www.java.com/en/download/help/win_controlpanel.xml

Once there, go to the Security tab, and enter the following URL in the Exception Site List:

http://www.glorantha.com/site-apps/ephemeris/EphemerisII.html

After making the changes, I can run the Ephemeris in Chrome.

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20 hours ago, David Scott said:

Thanks to some kind souls, I was finally able to play with this.

It is very nice indeed, but it looks like the sun moves on a estrict 12h Underworld's Sun Path + 12h World's Sun Path.

So, is this cannon? Yelm rides at the same speed along the Sun Path every day? I think it would be interesting if at least during sacred time he went slowly so he could appreciate the rituals of the distinct races.

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12 minutes ago, AlbertG said:

It is very nice indeed, but it looks like the sun moves on a estrict 12h Underworld's Sun Path + 12h World's Sun Path.

So, is this cannon? Yelm rides at the same speed along the Sun Path every day? I think it would be interesting if at least during sacred time he went slowly so he could appreciate the rituals of the distinct races.

According to p.646 of the Guide, "In winter, the Sun's orb is paler and cooler: the days are shorter and the nights are longer. On the longest night, at the Winter Solstice, the Sun is in the Underworld for twice as long as it is in the Sky". 

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6 minutes ago, Steve said:

According to p.646 of the Guide, "In winter, the Sun's orb is paler and cooler: the days are shorter and the nights are longer. On the longest night, at the Winter Solstice, the Sun is in the Underworld for twice as long as it is in the Sky". 

Thanks, we didn't reach the point where we should be discussing this, yet.

I find it strange that it talks about Winter, thought. 

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6 minutes ago, AlbertG said:

Thanks, we didn't reach the point where we should be discussing this, yet.

I find it strange that it talks about Winter, thought. 

Sorry, I forgot that we were in the week one discussion thread. Just trying to answer your question. But it sounds like that should be in a new thread.

Edit - I moved the discussion over to the Ephemeris thread.

Edited by Steve
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Very late to the party, but I'm going to try to keep on the road with it (I only have the Chaosium hard copy version to date

On the cover, the Rebellus Terminus Ouranekki piece seems to be the only one in Silver (the other Night pieces are gold like Yelm and the Day pieces. These seem to be different Night pieces from the web-site previously linked to in the thread (Dragon and the blue circle are not in the web-site set in that form, though Uleria is and could well be the blue circle piece).

One of the lines that made me think was Page 7 

"Most people live only in the mundane world content to let priests, shamans and wizards protect them. But the influence of the magical world is always there"

I'd always felt that most people in Glorantha had more contact with the supra mundane worlds than that e.g. at Sacred Time / Holy days / Disease treatment (albeit guided and guarded by the magical specialists)

I ws also surprised by P17 

"Manifestations of advanced cultures such as cities roads and planted fields are far less common than in our modern world."

Granted there may be few cities and those almost all tiny by modern standards, but I had thought bronze age culture would have established large tracts of planed fields and (rough) roads/droves/trails (except of course in barren or magically dangerous regions) .

I liked Page 16 

"As a matter of note the word for "Adventurer" does not exist in most Gloranthan languages. The word means many things but usually indicates someone taking risks, often illicit or at least without too many scruples for selfish personal gain" 

So if you give your occupation as 'Adventurer' to the Watch, you are as good as admitting to 'Chancer', 'Wide-boy' or 'Fanatic'. Fair point.

I also look forward to improving my understanding of the Blue Veldang, Green Waertagi, and the Teleono of one of six colours in later chapters.

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2 hours ago, Byll said:

Granted there may be few cities and those almost all tiny by modern standards, but I had thought bronze age culture would have established large tracts of planed fields and (rough) roads/droves/trails (except of course in barren or magically dangerous regions) .

It's an interesting point. My initial suspicion was that those fields are clustered around the towns, leaving vast sweeps of more-or-less howling wilderness across most of the lozenge. But even by modern definitions, a "frontier" community means a population density under 6 per square mile (~130 per Guide hex) so a backwater like Skanthiland (rural population 25,000) would need to sprawl across 200-210 hexes to be as desolate as, for example, Piscataquis County here in 21st Century Maine. Likewise for a place like Eol (with a relatively primitive nomadic population of 250,000) to achieve the same population density as my mom's home county (where they have gas stations, antibiotics and satellite TV), we'd need to find those people 2/3 of an AAA page (5,300 hexes!) to wander. 

This is not a nitpick because while these population numbers are clearly canonical, beautiful and complete from the original transparencies, I don't know if anyone ever said they had to count living embodied humans exclusively. In my Glorantha these territories get crowded with spirits loosely affiliated with the "community" or genius loci. A secular census may only manage to count 7,000-8,000 living Eolites and the place would still feel as empty as modern Lapland. But the bush sings with ghosts for those with ears to hear.

 

singer sing me a given

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15 hours ago, Byll said:

One of the lines that made me think was Page 7 

"Most people live only in the mundane world content to let priests, shamans and wizards protect them. But the influence of the magical world is always there"

I'd always felt that most people in Glorantha had more contact with the supra mundane worlds than that e.g. at Sacred Time / Holy days / Disease treatment (albeit guided and guarded by the magical specialists)

 

I see what you mean. But my take on it is an emphasis on "live only", i.e. they specifically *live* in the mundane world, and don't visit the magical world (e.g. because they are lay members of cults). Initiates will, of course, visit the magical world on Holy Days. Similarly when treated for disease, ordinary people will still be living in the mundane world, just that they need help from a priest who does have contact with that magical world.

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@HorusArisenPlease do add any comments. I don't see these threads as becoming defuncted as we move on. Others can read the sections retrospectively and comment. Don't forget that once you comment on a thread, you follow it unless you specifically remove yourself). As new people comment, all those taking part will still be notified and can still go back. 

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Search the Glorantha Resource Site: https://wellofdaliath.chaosium.com. Search the Glorantha mailing list archives: https://glorantha.steff.in/digests/

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@David Scott Would it make sense to create a subforum for this Guide to Glorantha Group Read? I'm switching back and forth between the 4 threads available for the first 2 weeks already now, and I'm pretty sure, this will increase while we go ahead in the Guide. It may be difficult to find all related threads later and compiling them in one dedicated subforum would make it much easier to get access to all the information compiled during that Group Read. Especially for people starting to read the Guide later.

Maybe this idea is way over the top, but I wanted to ask at least ...

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I think these threads fits nicely in the Glorantha forum. Finding them is easily done with a search if they've moved down the pages. So, no new subforum for now at least. Subforum proliferation is the path to inactive subforums, so we're trying to avoid that.

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Ef plest master, this mighty fine grub!
b1.gif 116/420. High Priest.

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2 hours ago, Akhôrahil said:

The cover made me think of something. Harrek is wielding a kukri—where would he have picked it up? Which culture(s) use kukris? My immediate guess would be Teshnos, as it's Glorantha's fantasy India. 

The Greeks had a very similar sword, called a 'Kopis', if memory serves me correctly. Almost identical to a Kukri - at least blade-wise.

He probably picked it up in the Lunar Empire, possibly when he was a Dart Warrior. Many of The Empire's Scimitars are more recently represented in the artwork as Kopis, Khopesh or Moonswords.

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4 hours ago, David Scott said:

I'd suggest asking @M Helsdonabout this as @Jeff is vacationing. 

I'm no authority on canon, but...

4 hours ago, Brian McReynolds said:

The Greeks had a very similar sword, called a 'Kopis', if memory serves me correctly. Almost identical to a Kukri - at least blade-wise.

He probably picked it up in the Lunar Empire, possibly when he was a Dart Warrior. Many of The Empire's Scimitars are more recently represented in the artwork as Kopis, Khopesh or Moonswords.

A kopis has a heavy curved single-edged blade used for slashing and thrusting with the cutting edge on the inside of the long blade.

In Glorantha, Pelorian swords vary between those almost indistinguishable from agricultural implements through to khopesh and the forms often described as a scimitar, or kopis, and without being too pedantic, the latter can include blades similar to a falcata or kukri. The terms makhaira and kopis seem to be used interchangeably in the texts and it is difficult to identify ancient Greek swords as one or the other. The term kopis covers a very wide variety of blade shapes, and means roughly cutter.

In-world, kopis swords were introduced to the Pelorians by the Pentan horsemen. The downward curve of the kopis makes it especially suited to mounted warfare. It may be curved back or forward. It is now the defining weapon of the Lunar Empire.

Left: various 'sickle-swords', including Moonswords, khopesh and the form often described as a scimitar.

Right: various kopis.

Pelorian swords.JPG

Edited by M Helsdon
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