Towers

[M Helsdon]

The exterior (side and top views) of one of Saronil's Towers.

 

Edited October 17, 2017 by M Helsdon

[M Helsdon]

The massive Howling Tower, with a Seven Mothers temple for size comparison.

 

Edited October 17, 2017 by M Helsdon

[M Helsdon]

A work in progress... A gateway of Pavis or Jonstown.

However, there's a problem. From the first publication in the Pavis boxed set, the gate towers have been described as 'The right tower is 30 meters tall; the left is ten meters tall'. The units used have changed in Pavis: Gateway to Adventure, but the proportions are unchanged. The issue is that in the overview of the city, the disparity in height isn't that great, and having one tower massively taller than the other makes little defensive sense. See the second drawing. I believe that the height difference should be far less: 30 meters perhaps to 20 meters... I've gone with the latter.

A shows the towers with slightly different heights.

B shows the towers with one of 30 meters, the other of ten.

 

 

Edited October 17, 2017 by M Helsdon

[Joerg]

I would assume that the high gate towers are 30 meters high in order to provide a view of the top of the Rubble walls, which are at 25 meters. The lower towers just need to stand out above the new wall.

I agree that all depictions show a different height ratio between the gate towers, and I'd go with the visuals while leaving the high towers and those tower.like structures on the Rubble wall at a height.

[M Helsdon]

14 hours ago, Joerg said:

I would assume that the high gate towers are 30 meters high in order to provide a view of the top of the Rubble walls, which are at 25 meters. The lower towers just need to stand out above the new wall.

The affected gates are not close to the Rubble walls, and so would provide limited visibility for defense. In fact, the closest round tower to the Rubble walls is a smaller round tower.

As the Jonstown gates have the very same dimensions I strongly suspect a very old typo (perhaps the 3 should have been a 2). I've read the passage many times and not thought anything of it. It wasn't until I drew it out the discrepancy became apparent.

[Steve]

14 hours ago, M Helsdon said:

The affected gates are not close to the Rubble walls, and so would provide limited visibility for defense. In fact, the closest round tower to the Rubble walls is a smaller round tower.

Still good to have a longer view though, to see what's happening in the Rubble, no?

[M Helsdon]

9 hours ago, Steve said:

Still good to have a longer view though, to see what's happening in the Rubble, no?

True, but that's why the original Old Pavis wall is accessible, and has a number of towers upon it.

[M Helsdon]

Examples of Sartarite city gates: top - square towers such those found at Swenstown and Wilmskirk; bottom - round towers such as those found at Jonstown and New Pavis.

 

Edited October 17, 2017 by M Helsdon

[M Helsdon]

Left: the city gate of an Esrolian city.

Right: a side entrance to the precincts of the Great Temple of Ernalda in the Sarli district of Nochet. Two towers of glazed green brick, each depicting a goddess, are supported by stone bases depicting female trolls frame the copper-clad gate, which depicts two priestesses. The presence of the guardian trolls suggests this gate predates the era of the God-King.

 

Edited October 17, 2017 by M Helsdon

[Joerg]

Belintar employs uz in his military, too. I don't think that he would be depicted on an Earth Temple any more than Orlanth or some other military protector deity.

Sarli district in Nochet is the home of non-Esrolian Orlanthi, many of whom have certain disagreements with the way Belintar took over Heortland. This might be true of the Ernaldan priesthood among them, too - accepting his overlordship as a fact, but grudgingly. (For a comparison I think of the NATO occupation forces in western Germany before the reunion. You wouldn't find their insignia on the German administration buildings during the time of limited sovereignty.)

I'm not sure there was a Great Temple to Ernalda in the Sarli district before the Opening - at least not a functional one. The Devastation of the Vent leveled most buildings of Second Age Nochet. Facades of glazed bricks like those of the Ishtar gate would have fallen down and would require active restoration even when the walls survived that quake.

The trolls appear to be females. I haven't heard about any female mercenary troll warriors, although troll priestesses and sorceresses are known to have served away from their homes.

 

[M Helsdon]

16 hours ago, Joerg said:

Belintar employs uz in his military, too. I don't think that he would be depicted on an Earth Temple any more than Orlanth or some other military protector deity.

They are female trolls.

16 hours ago, Joerg said:

Sarli district in Nochet is the home of non-Esrolian Orlanthi, many of whom have certain disagreements with the way Belintar took over Heortland. This might be true of the Ernaldan priesthood among them, too - accepting his overlordship as a fact, but grudgingly. (For a comparison I think of the NATO occupation forces in western Germany before the reunion. You wouldn't find their insignia on the German administration buildings during the time of limited sovereignty.)

The largest Heortling urban center in Glorantha, Sarli is dominated by the Grace Temple and Orlanth’s Hill. This district has grown enormously since the Lunar conquest of Dragon Pass and has received thousands of new refugees in recent years from Heortland and Sartar. Dozens of temples and shrines to the gods of Dragon Pass can be found here.

The Grace Temple is one of the greatest temples to the Earth Goddess in Glorantha. (See map of Nochet.)

16 hours ago, Joerg said:

I'm not sure there was a Great Temple to Ernalda in the Sarli district before the Opening - at least not a functional one. The Devastation of the Vent leveled most buildings of Second Age Nochet. Facades of glazed bricks like those of the Ishtar gate would have fallen down and would require active restoration even when the walls survived that quake.

The Grace Temple dates back at least as far as Darkness Era Nochet (see Esrolia: TLoTTG maps). Was there in Harmast's time and doubtless has been rebuilt and repaired throughout Time.

16 hours ago, Joerg said:

The trolls appear to be females. I haven't heard about any female mercenary troll warriors, although troll priestesses and sorceresses are known to have served away from their homes.

The trolls are (painted) carven reliefs decorating the entrance.

Edited September 3, 2017 by M Helsdon

[jajagappa]

6 hours ago, Joerg said:

I'm not sure there was a Great Temple to Ernalda in the Sarli district before the Opening - at least not a functional one. The Devastation of the Vent leveled most buildings of Second Age Nochet.

I think the Grace Temple has survived relatively intact throughout (unlike the Esrola Temple which had to be rebuilt).

Initially agreed with the comment that the Grace Temple is less likely to have the uz/OOO representation (and thinking that it might by a gate to the Esrola Temple).  However, this is also just one of the gates, not the whole temple (which is massize).  Other gates would likely include the other Noble Brothers, so in that context it would make sense.

[M Helsdon]

20 hours ago, jajagappa said:

Initially agreed with the comment that the Grace Temple is less likely to have the uz/OOO representation (and thinking that it might by a gate to the Esrola Temple).  However, this is also just one of the gates, not the whole temple (which is massize).  Other gates would likely include the other Noble Brothers, so in that context it would make sense.

I imagine the main entrances as being much grander. This is a minor side entrance. Or I may have been mistaken, or misunderstood my guide, and drawn an entirely different temple gateway. In a big city like Nochet, you can never be certain that the guide you pay to show you around knows as much as they say they do.

[In the real world, on occasion, I've overheard tour guides in museums or ancient sites telling their groups completely fictitious things...]

Edited September 3, 2017 by M Helsdon

[M Helsdon]

Lunar gateway at Raibanth, featuring a 'moon gate' flanked by a Lunar and Solar guardian.

The wall consists of stone on the lower courses, brick above, covered with a layer of painted plaster. A balcony with three entrances lies above the gateway. Note the lack of crenellations at the top of the wall.

[Guardian figures derived from artwork by Dan Barker.]

 

Edited October 17, 2017 by M Helsdon

[M Helsdon]

The South Gate of Dangerford. This is a double gate including a wooden guardhouse.

 

Edited October 17, 2017 by M Helsdon

[M Helsdon]

Whitewall, before and after the siege and Lunar assault.

The levels of building can be clearly seen, with the lowest dating to the Storm Age.

[Cutout on left is an approaching wall.]

 

 

 

Edited October 17, 2017 by M Helsdon

[M Helsdon]

All gates to the same scale.

 

Edited October 17, 2017 by M Helsdon

[M Helsdon]

The main gate of Red Cow Fort. Whilst the walls are recent, they are built on ancient foundations.

 

 

Edited October 17, 2017 by M Helsdon

[M Helsdon]

The Griffin Gate of Yuthuppa.

 

 

Edited October 17, 2017 by M Helsdon

[jajagappa]

6 minutes ago, M Helsdon said:

The Griffin Gate of Yuthuppa

Surprised there wouldn't be more slit windows on the towers, both for directing magics and missiles down on the foes, as well as getting useful heavenly observations.

[M Helsdon]

2 minutes ago, jajagappa said:

Surprised there wouldn't be more slit windows on the towers, both for directing magics and missiles down on the foes, as well as getting useful heavenly observations.

The design is (very) heavily influenced by Iron Age Mesopotamian architecture, though I might add a few extra arrow slits. The lack of these might indicate the century of peace in the Heartlands, and an imperial disinclination to have the two 'ordinary' cities of the Tripolis well fortified given past history (as the Tripolis has rebelled against Lunar rule before, it will, in Cyclic Time, rebel again).

These gate towers are occupied by mere warriors, not sages. I have a few ideas about what a Yuthuppa star tower might look like, and it's very different to these...

[M Helsdon]

On ‎10‎/‎6‎/‎2017 at 11:28 PM, jajagappa said:

Surprised there wouldn't be more slit windows on the towers, both for directing magics and missiles down on the foes, as well as getting useful heavenly observations.

With more pondering and looking at Mycenaean, Anatolian and Mesopotamian reconstructions, I've concluded that levels of arrow slits don't feel 'right' for Babylonian-style gateways. But here's a detail of the gate...

 

 

Edited October 17, 2017 by M Helsdon

[M Helsdon]

And the 'set' as they appear on the page...

 

 

 

Edited October 17, 2017 by M Helsdon

[Joerg]

I am starting to wonder whether there would be more statues that can be called to live in niches of the outward face of the gates. Maybe not quite up to the size of the two Jolanti of Dwarf Mine, and more often than not not human shaped, but there are a few canonical mentions of awakened statues as magical guardians, like the bronze rams of the brazuer couort in Boldhome.

With such guardians part of the architecture, the anti-siege functionality of the gates and surrounding towers might be reduced.

Entering through the jaws of a (chiseled or petrified) monster might make another style of gate, and I could see Esrolian gates surrounded by constrictor snakes hewn into the rock of the gate which would contract to cover the gate.

[M Helsdon]

12 minutes ago, Joerg said:

I am starting to wonder whether there would be more statues that can be called to live in niches of the outward face of the gates. Maybe not quite up to the size of the two Jolanti of Dwarf Mine, and more often than not not human shaped, but there are a few canonical mentions of awakened statues as magical guardians, like the bronze rams of the brazuer couort in Boldhome.

With such guardians part of the architecture, the anti-siege functionality of the gates and surrounding towers might be reduced.

Entering through the jaws of a (chiseled or petrified) monster might make another style of gate, and I could see Esrolian gates surrounded by constrictor snakes hewn into the rock of the gate which would contract to cover the gate.

I don't doubt that guardian spirits are an integral part of the defenses of a city and its gate, but in the Third Age only Mostali appear to have the capability to create tamestone entities, and then at a reduced level, and their price for providing these would potentially be prohibitively high. (And if Boldhome has living bronze constructions, they were made by the Mostali for Sartar). For gates A, B, C, D there are canonical descriptions of the defenses, and for E the canonical illustration of the gates of Nochet lack any such defense - and if any Esrolian city boasts magical statues, it should be Nochet. Harald might confirm or deny. Jeff's sketch of G doesn't show any defending statues, and for H...