Guide to Glorantha Group Read Week 3 - Fonritian

[metcalph]

15 hours ago, Joerg said:

To me the "Vadeli Legacy" stating that all Fonrit was conquered in the Fonritian culture section (p.46) came a bit as a surprise. From Missing Lands (p.87) I associated the Vadeli conquests with Umathela (1585 ST) rather than Afadjann and Kareeshtu, both of which have been portrayed as an unbroken rule of the Janns, who aided the Vadeli in their conquest of Kareeshtu 1587 ST as allies rather than as conquered vassals. While this alliance may have established Vadeli enclaves in Afadjann port cities, there doesn't seem to have been a conquest here, or further south around the Koraru Bay.

The Guide p554-555

Quote

In 1585, a fleet of Vadeli ships arrived in
Afadjann, the first seen since the Closing. The
newcomers claimed they were gods, instituted taxes
and worship, demanded human sacrifice and magical
secrets, and, through terrible sorcery, compelled the
use of Darleester the Noose as a weapon against the
people of Afadjann. Those who resisted were brutally
killed by the Red Vadeli. In 1587, a Vadeli fleet, with
Afadjanni and Umathelan allies, attacked and
conquered Kareeshtu. At its height, the Vadeli
Empire ruled Umathela and most of Fonrit.

You are correct that the Guide doesn't describe the actions of the Vadeli Empire in Fonrit with the same level as it did in Umathela (the sole exception that doesn't concern Oenriko Rock is the Admiral Yacht at Dindanko).

Their use of Darleester's noose suggests an interregnum in the line of Janns and also why the Afadjanni are allies.  Who their umathelan allies were is an interesting question.

I think that rather than open battle, the Vadeli relied on terrible revelations to demoralize their enemies.  Their strategy fell apart when they moved against the Masloi who had no such weaknesses.

 

[lokamayadon]

Fonrit is clearly à place with great potential for adventuring

I have 2 questions May be replied later in the guide :

- I would loved to know more about garangordos his origins and the glorious ones

- it seems that fonrit was not concerned by the firefall even if it seems an important place for artmali culture. I don t see why...

[Steve]

Hmm, a lot of this thread goes way over my head. I thought this was a group read thread, rather than "this section mentioned xxx, so let's fire off some long-standing questions I've always had about xxx".

Anyway, some things that stand out for me ...

You can probably tell by my comment that this is all new stuff to me. We are most definitely not in Kansas Dragon Pass any more! The whole section is fascinating and totally different to any of my existing (DP-based) knowledge of Glorantha. The first few paragraphs already have me wanting to learn a lot more about Fonrit.

p.44 art - I can't figure out what the spiky-ended things at the warrior's side are. Nice skin-marking on the sorceror.

p.46 has a box on the "Vadeli Legacy". This is far too little information for me, I want more! Maybe as we go deeper into the Guide?

[jajagappa]

On 7/13/2017 at 11:36 AM, Steve said:

Hmm, a lot of this thread goes way over my head. I thought this was a group read thread, rather than "this section mentioned xxx, so let's fire off some long-standing questions I've always had about xxx".

It often doesn't take much to go down particular areas of long-standing discussion, particularly where the sources in the past have been scattered.  Hopefully those digressions can be taken to new threads.

On 7/13/2017 at 11:36 AM, Steve said:

You can probably tell by my comment that this is all new stuff to me. We are most definitely not in Kansas Dragon Pass any more!

Definitely not Dragon Pass! 

I first encountered Fonrit way back in 1984 in AH's Heroes magazine v.1 #6.  And for many, many years that remained the only source info available.  The Missing Lands and Revealed Mythologies added to the picture, but it was nice to finally get a unifying view of the culture and region.

What stands out to me is an underlying and all-encompassing philosophy that Life is Slavery.  Humans are slaves to each other and to the gods, and even the gods are slaves to other gods.  What's not certain is whether this results in an inherent fatalistic attitude towards life in general, or if it leads to a more pyramid-scheme attitude where there's a constant desire to move up the 'rungs' of slavery and get more slaves of your own.  My guess is something of both. 

On 7/13/2017 at 11:36 AM, Steve said:

p.44 art - I can't figure out what the spiky-ended things at the warrior's side are.

They seem to be some sort of 'scabbards' so perhaps curved swords or daggers to use if the spear breaks.

On 7/13/2017 at 11:36 AM, Steve said:

p.46 has a box on the "Vadeli Legacy". This is far too little information for me, I want more! Maybe as we go deeper into the Guide?

Yes, you'll find more in Volume 2 when you get to the Vadeli Isles section.  But they certainly rank among the 'bad' or 'evil' guys of Glorantha.

Slave Soldiers:  remind me of the Unsullied from Game of Thrones.  Could be some interesting room for development of these groups across the different city-states.

Religious Emblems: that the priests of the deities may be marked by ritual scarification, etc. is not overly different than the varied markings of the Orlanthi of Dragon Pass.  Yet there is an implication here that such marking symbolizes that you are not an avatar or representative of your deity as in Orlanthi lands, but in fact a slave or vessel for your deity.  Interesting to consider how that might play out in a game.

p.46 "many cities maintain war elephants (actually amebelodon shoveltuskers)": somehow this little tidbit fascinates me and I wonder about its implications in warfare.  I like that it moves away from the standard elephant.

p.47 some really cool deities here.  Ompalam and Garangordos.  Darleester the Noose.  El Jazuli the Sister Witch.  Seseine and Ikadz.  And of course Gark the Calm.  Someone in Fonrit must have an army of calm patient zombie soldiers.

 

 

 

[David Scott]

On 13/07/2017 at 4:36 PM, Steve said:

Hmm, a lot of this thread goes way over my head. I thought this was a group read thread, rather than "this section mentioned xxx, so let's fire off some long-standing questions I've always had about xxx".

This is actually the nature of reading groups in my experience. Many years ago I ran as part of my job a reading group in a local library. At end of the previous weeks session, the next person in turn would pick out a book for us to read. When we got back together, we'd have the usual things talked about, the story, favourite bits, what so and so's motivations were. But more often than not, some one would point out something they didn't understand or wanted to know more about, or want to tell their experience of it. Then we'd spend half the session talking about it, getting out other books on the subject. Derailments ranged from different countries, animals, space, motivations of people, etc. So what's happening here is what my experience of group reads is. I should point out that my readers were aged between 7 and 9...

[Oracle]

Again (as with all Pamaltela) this is a blank spot on my Glorantha map. So it was quite exciting to read this chapter. A whole culture based completely on slavery? That gave me immediately some basic campaign ideas like starting a group to free all the slaves (inspired by one of my favorite cycle of fantasy novels: Joel Rosenberg's Guardians of the Flame) or some outside force starting to fight for the freedom of the slaves (similar to Daenerys Targaryen's campaign in the Slaver's Bay in Game of Thrones).

Given the fact, that being a slave is so intrinsic to Fonritian Culture, it may not work at all. On the other hand: These are the Hero Wars!

That's, what's happening a lot while reading this cultural descriptions: getting ideas, how I could use these cultures in a game ... and always getting hungry for more details ...

Also interesting: the Vadeli Legacy

Edited July 15, 2017 by Oracle

[metcalph]

5 hours ago, jajagappa said:

p.47 some really cool deities here.  Ompalam and Garangordos.  Darleester the Noose.  El Jazuli the Sister Witch.  Seseine and Ikadz.  And of course Gark the Calm.  Someone in Fonrit must have an army of calm patient zombie soldiers.

Or better still, sometimes the zombie herds go rogue (perhaps adventurers killed the local priest whose sacrifices [BRAINS!] kept them calm).  

[davecake]

Quite possibly Tentacule is the divine version of the practice, the Wool Cloaks the sorcerous. I agree with the idea that its a mystic/primal version of Slavery - Ompalam the more worldly version, suitable for general populace, Tentacule more for dedicated magicians. Darleester a specific magically enforced form of slavery. 

The Fonritian sorcery is not a coherent school, rather a cluster of related traditions. I expect most of them allow Tapping of anyone or anything that you own, de facto if not de jure. I expect they have access to a lot of specialised knowledge regarding Tapping, learned from the Vadeli, who were masters. 

I think the Brithini obsession with the right ways to interact with the Eranschula/gods is not shared by the Vadeli. The Vadeli recognise the ancient laws that grant them immortality as a list of specific practices necessary for immortality rather than a moral code, and it turns out messing with spiritual practices that Zzabur didn't understand is often possible.

So the question of whether the Ompalam is believed in by the Vadeli isn't that big a deal - the Vadeli believe in magical slavery, the Vadeli pursued magical slavery on a culture wide basis, forcing your slaves to venerate the anthropomorphised power of slavery makes perfect sense. Some individual Vadeli may do so as well, and as long as they don't lose their immortality thereby, what of it?