Using magic repeatedly

[Mankcam]

I love HQ as a narrative system, it has so much potential. Expressing everything as a descriptor is such a great way to portray things.

However I greatly prefer portraying Glorantha with RQ as opposed to HQ, but it is really like comparing apples and oranges, as the systems are so different.

Despite the shared setting, the two systems cannot be compared beyond the fact that they are both rpgs which are set in Glorantha. RQ needs to be compared with the likes of D&D, Rolemaster, GURPS, etc, whilst HQ is comparable with rule sets like Risus, FATE, Polaris, and games like that.

Beyond the setting content itself, I don't think there are many other aspects that can be compared between RQ and HQ.

Edited August 4, 2017 by Mankcam

[Christoph Kohring]

2 hours ago, Steve said:

This is getting boring now, @Darius West, go and troll somewhere else please.

What do you have against trolls, @Steve?!! We are all Uz, after all!?! ?

 

(Sorry, couldn't resist! ? )

[Christoph Kohring]

30 minutes ago, Mankcam said:

RQ needs to be compared with the likes of D&D, Rolemaster, GURPS, etc, [...]

RQ is incomparable! It is incomparably better than D&D, Chivalry & Sorcery, Rolemaster, etc... for instance.

What HQ & RQ have in common are: no classes, no levels, no alignments, no armor class, no increasing hit points, no XPs, skills/ abilities, religion/ cults that make sense, etc...

In fact, one of the few things that RQ & D&D have in common is characterics but not much more (equipment, weapons & armor lists?!?). 

Besides, everybody in this community (except for Rob Heinsoo, Jonathan Tweet & Newt Newport) knows that D&D is badwrongfun, no?!! ?

[soltakss]

The whole point of the OP was to compare RQ and HQ magic, how they are used and what effects this has in the game.

I don't it's fair to accuse @Darius West of trolling when he is responding to the OP.

I like both HQ and RQ and have played/run campaigns for both with equal fun. Magic is treated differently and players cope with that really well. You just do things slightly differently in the two systems.

 

[Richard S.]

5 hours ago, Christoph Kohring said:

RQ is incomparable! It is incomparably better than D&D, Chivalry & Sorcery, Rolemaster, etc... for instance.

What HQ & RQ have in common are: no classes, no levels, no alignments, no armor class, no increasing hit points, no XPs, skills/ abilities, religion/ cults that make sense, etc...

In fact, one of the few things that RQ & D&D have in common is characterics but not much more (equipment, weapons & armor lists?!?). 

Besides, everybody in this community (except for Rob Heinsoo, Jonathan Tweet & Newt Newport) knows that D&D is badwrongfun, no?!! ?

I would voice my opinion but I also have an aversion to being lynched. 

[soltakss]

5 hours ago, Christoph Kohring said:

RQ is incomparable! It is incomparably better than D&D, Chivalry & Sorcery, Rolemaster, etc... for instance.

What HQ & RQ have in common are: no classes, no levels, no alignments, no armor class, no increasing hit points, no XPs, skills/ abilities, religion/ cults that make sense, etc...

In fact, one of the few things that RQ & D&D have in common is characterics but not much more (equipment, weapons & armor lists?!?). 

Besides, everybody in this community (except for Rob Heinsoo, Jonathan Tweet & Newt Newport) knows that D&D is badwrongfun, no?!! ?

13th Age in Glorantha is Gloranthan D&D, with levels, classes and everything else. So, Glorantha has another official rules system.

[Mankcam]

8 hours ago, soltakss said:

13th Age in Glorantha is Gloranthan D&D...

What?!!!

Next you'll be telling us that the Brits have a woman lined up to play the role of Dr Who !!!

[soltakss]

9 hours ago, Mankcam said:

Next you'll be telling us that the Brits have a woman lined up to play the role of Dr Who !!!

But, does she play RQ, 13th Age in Glorantha or D&D?

[Christoph Kohring]

2 hours ago, soltakss said:

But, does she play RQ, 13th Age in Glorantha or D&D?

She plays HQ:G if she knows what is good for her. ?

[Mankcam]

Actually HQ Whoverse would work rather well 

 

(sorry, I derailed a thread again)

Edited August 5, 2017 by Mankcam

[soltakss]

14 hours ago, Mankcam said:

(sorry, I derailed a thread again)

And brought some sanity back to it ...

[Aprewett]

But RQ is not better than Harn, which has the same pedigree in my opinion 

[David Scott]

And back to the topic - using magic repeatedly 

On 31/07/2017 at 6:32 AM, Darius West said:

That is looking at the problem solely from the point of view of the player, not the NPC guard, who is now merely an obstacle, and not a person trying to do a job.

Fortunately HQ is not simulationist and we don't have to think about what NPCs do when we are not looking at them. What counts is the moment of interaction and the abstraction of the guard being a story obstacle not fully developed character - that could come later. I actually feel that the cross fertilisation between HQ and RQ will ultimately benefit RQG by helping GMs overcome the need for total detail with NPCs. I always thought it was cool that Quackjohn in Apple Lane has amongst his skills Snooker, Musical spoons and sew. until I realised that a short descriptive paragraph would of served better. eg. Quackjohn loves to entertain by playing the spoons and is virtually unbeaten in snooker. His love of sewing is reflected in his neat clothing. 

Edited August 7, 2017 by David Scott

[Joerg]

1 hour ago, David Scott said:

Fortunately HQ is not simulationist and we don't have to think about what NPCs do when we are not looking at them. What counts is the moment of interaction and the abstraction of the guard being a story obstacle not fully devoted character - that could come later. I actually feel that the cross fertilisation between HQ and RQ will ultimately benefit RQG by helping GMs overcome the need for total detail with NPCs.

Speaking as a GM who would use approximate stats for RQ opposition with the occasional quirk, that's something I can do easily in RQ, but have a hard time to put into HQ without obscuring the strengths of the character.

Any NPC, whether in RQ or in HQ, is a potential ally or sidekick, and sometimes it can further the story to see the NPCs that the PCs are supposed to protect suffer results from enemy action.

HQ can become a mixed bag, too. In a doomed contest, a player could decide that his contest goal is to "leave a good impression with your leaders while fighting" rather than winning the fight (or achieving the strategic goal of the fight), and succeed while suffering the story consequences of defeat. RQ is a much harder mistress for the same kind of goal.

 

In RQ, I had no problems dividing e.g. a climbing challenge into short sequence of rolls, with the outcome influencing the difficulty of the next roll, sometimes narrating the drama, sometimes letting the player sweat it through situational modifiers. I'm still uncomfortable how to port this technique into HQ.

1 hour ago, David Scott said:

I always thought it was cool that Quackjohn in Apple Lane has amongst his skills Snooker, Musical spoons and sew. until I realised that a short descriptive paragraph would of served better. eg. Quackjohn loves to entertain by playing the spoons and is virtually unbeaten in snooker. His love of sewing is reflected in his neat clothing. 

"Loves Sewing" doesn't say anywhere that he is competent at sewing, though. I know enough part-time musicians who love to play their instruments but who definitely aren't anywhere skillfull enough to do so before an audience.

That said, player characters should be able to add such whimsical abilities to their character sheets without having to spend valuable training time or similar. Munchkin-like abuse can be countered by situational modifiers if it interferes with the story, or can be made the source for unintended consequences.

[David Scott]

44 minutes ago, Joerg said:

"Loves Sewing" doesn't say anywhere that he is competent at sewing, though. I know enough part-time musicians who love to play their instruments but who definitely aren't anywhere skillfull enough to do so before an audience.

Quote

QUACKJOHN, duck male. 

SKILLS—Chess 45%, Climbing 30%, Cooking 100%, Jumping 20%, Map Making 85%, Musical Spoons 80%, Oratory 10%, Riding 25%, Sewing 80%, Singing 10%, Snooker 85%, Swimming 95%.

I edited out

Quote

Enjoys playing the spoons, but only in private

as it was then pointless having the skill for an NPC and should have gone with

Quote

 Quackjohn loves to entertain by playing the spoons but doesn't realise he sings badly

 

Edited August 7, 2017 by David Scott

[Joerg]

Sure, but I was thinking of getting stats out of a description.

HQ can easily have a set of flaws/passions like 

Loves singing 1W

Can't carry a tune in a bucket 7W

Hates Critics 17

 

And don't tell me you wouldn't get good NPC use out of these innocent numbers even in a game of HQ2/G.

[David Scott]

2 hours ago, Joerg said:

And don't tell me you wouldn't get good NPC use out of these innocent numbers even in a game of HQ2/G.

No use at all. When I ran Gringles Pawn shop with HeroQuest Glorantha, I quickly went through the NPCs highlighted their names, drew boxes around their descriptions and bookmarked those in the PDF. I also picked 1 to 3 runes to give an idea of ability, normally based on cult. When I've time I block out the entire stat block leaving weapons so I don't have to make that up. NPCs don't have stats as the difficulty is set using the usual HeroQuest guidelines.