Elder Races as PC's?

[Roko Joko]

(never mind)

[Yelm's Light]

2 hours ago, styopa said:

Oh noes!  It's not canonical?  How will I live with myself?  

Oh, btw https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_true_Scotsman

Thanks for that serious and well-thought-out response.  Any more insults you'd like to throw my way?

[Yelm's Light]

I've got it!  Let's all just be one big happy family!  Lunars, Praxians, undead, Chaos, Elder Races, everyone!

Edited July 29, 2017 by Yelm's Light

[soltakss]

2 hours ago, Yelm's Light said:

I've got it!  Let's all just be one big happy family!  Lunars, Praxians, undead, Chaos, Elder Races, everyone!

Now you've got it! 

[soltakss]

One of the things mentioned in the 13th Age Glorantha stuff is that the Hero Wars needs the combined might of all the races and religions.

So, for example, Orlanth on his own can only do so much, but Orlanth combined with Kyger Litor and Aldrya can do more. Mixed parties can use their abilities, magic and HeroQuests together in far more inventive ways than a group of all Orlanthi, or all Aldryami or whatever.

[MOB]

22 hours ago, soltakss said:

In our current campaign, Melo Yelo has become King of Dragon Pass!

Of course, it took a number of HeroQuests and a lot of jiggery-pokery.

Wonderful, and merited I'm sure!

In my own future history scoped out for Sun County Prax post-1621 Melo Yelo does not reach quite those heights of brilliance, but is nevertheless makes his mark in various heroic if baboonish ways...

[styopa]

22 hours ago, Yelm's Light said:

Thanks for that serious and well-thought-out response.  Any more insults you'd like to throw my way?

I thought your answer was silly and reactionary.  Why would it merit a serious response?

Edited July 30, 2017 by styopa

[soltakss]

Let us all Invoke the Harmony Rune together ...

Yelm's Light has already seen the light, can Styopa overcome myopia?

[Yelm's Light]

Funny, but the only rage here is your own.  I don't recall ever saying you couldn't run it the way you want.  That would be as pointless as your using a powergaming excuse to justify violating the basic background of the world in a big way.

You can post all the silly graphics you want, it only makes you look like an idiot.  Gotta love the internet, where anyone can throw insults around that would get them brained face-to-face.  Suffice it to say you'll never have any worries about my playing in your game.

 

Enough, soltakss.  We both know my comment was sarcastic.

[styopa]

1 hour ago, soltakss said:

Let us all Invoke the Harmony Rune together ...

Yelm's Light has already seen the light, can Styopa overcome myopia?

Well played.

[styopa]

Nah.  Some fish in barrels not worth it.

Edited July 30, 2017 by styopa

[Yelm's Light]

Ever see Dances With Wolves?  I know what styopa's Indian name would be:  Big Man Behind Little Keyboard.

[David Scott]

Please get back to the subject, please message you insults directly to each other. ( @Trifletraxor, @MOB ).

[styopa]

1 hour ago, David Scott said:

Please get back to the subject, please message you insults directly to each other. ( @Trifletraxor, @MOB ).

I think it would be great and appropriate if subsequent campaign books presented the various elder cultures (kind of like Elder Secrets did, but ...better art, at least  ) and then provided PC-generation stuff for campaigns to use.  The 'background generation tables' that have gotten good commentary in every 'insider' comment really would have to be pretty carefully crafted for each, obviously, and that's a big task.

[Psullie]

16 hours ago, styopa said:

I think it would be great and appropriate if subsequent campaign books presented the various elder cultures (kind of like Elder Secrets did, but ...better art, at least  ) and then provided PC-generation stuff for campaigns to use.  The 'background generation tables' that have gotten good commentary in every 'insider' comment really would have to be pretty carefully crafted for each, obviously, and that's a big task.

I think this would be great. the common thread seems to be that mixed groups are uncommon, but the history/mythology of Glorantha is full of cooperative enterprises when the stakes are high enough. As we aim to re-enact the myths as part of our games then mixed groups would be quite common.

Ideally I'd like to see the Elder races getting a similar level of uplift in RQ as they have in other sources (the Guide for example). Right now RQ2's dwarves and elves do not reflect those races as we see them today. 

[Paid a bod yn dwp]

14 minutes ago, Psullie said:

Right now RQ2's dwarves and elves do not reflect those races as we see them today. 

Yes, it's particularly tricky for new comers to see elves and dwarfs outside of the Tolkien fantasy mold. I feel the Gloranthan interpretation needs some really good colourful scenarios to introduce them. 

RQ3 Elder secrets didn't do it for me. Not having read it recently I'm not sure whether it was the writing style? I'm more inclined to think it was the awful and very dry presentation of the product. Perhaps the way entries were formalised in Elder Secrets didn't always fit the feeling for some elder races, in particular the Aldryami. Too conformist to a scientific analysis - in Gloranthan terms a bit God learner. Which didn't express the different nature of the Aldyrami.

I seem to remember RQ3 Dorastor presenting Aldryami in a much more colourful exciting way. They were pretty deadly from what I remember. 

[styopa]

2 hours ago, Paid a bod yn dwp said:

RQ3 Elder secrets didn't do it for me. Not having read it recently I'm not sure whether it was the writing style? I'm more inclined to think it was the awful and very dry presentation of the product. Perhaps the way entries were formalised in Elder Secrets didn't always fit the feeling for some elder races, in particular the Aldryami. Too conformist to a scientific analysis - in Gloranthan terms a bit God learner. Which didn't express the different nature of the Aldyrami.

I seem to remember RQ3 Dorastor presenting Aldryami in a much more colourful exciting way. They were pretty deadly from what I remember. 

So much was wrong about Elder Secrets.  To give him his due, my guess was that Dobyski was hired as an artist to get art on the cheap.  We all hash on him for the terrible art (and it is) but he is extremely talented in his preferred context: AFAIK he did the maps and layouts for Sun County and River of Cradles, two of the most highly-regarded products in the large Gloranthan oeuvre.

Notwithstanding the discussion above in the thread, I discourage new players from playing elves and dwarves because new players commonly carry a lot of baggage into the discussion that doesn't apply in Glorantha.

I try to explain that they're downright ALIEN in outlook and have their own motivations which can be frankly inimical to humans generally.  Those that aren't are pretty clearly exceptions considered insane by the rest.

Trolls, baboons, etc aren't so much of an issue because they're not so freighted with D&D and popculture.

[MOB]

18 hours ago, styopa said:

So much was wrong about Elder Secrets.  To give him his due, my guess was that Dobyski was hired as an artist to get art on the cheap.  We all hash on him for the terrible art (and it is) but he is extremely talented in his preferred context: AFAIK he did the maps and layouts for Sun County and River of Cradles, two of the most highly-regarded products in the large Gloranthan oeuvre.

Yes, AH hired Dobyski as a graphic designer, not an artist. Ken Rolston's predecessor then told him he was down for doing all internal illustrations as well—it would seem all the art budget went towards decent cover art, as at least that remained uniformly well done throughout the RQ3 era (unsurprising, given it was done by real pros including Lisa Free and Tom Sullivan).

I actually supplied the Sun County manuscript with sample illustrations - I was heavily involved in Tales of the Reaching Moon at the time, so I had contacts with artists - and offered to do the art direction myself, on the proviso Dobyski wasn't involved. Fortunately, AH brought on Ken around this time, and the internal art crisis was averted. I still got the opportunity to collaborate directly with Roger Raupp the wonderful cover work he did though, which was fun. 

 

[Paid a bod yn dwp]

29 minutes ago, MOB said:

I still got the opportunity to collaborate directly with Roger Raupp the wonderful cover work he did though, which was fun. 

 

Yes I still remember that sense of excitement seeing your RuneQuest Renaissance period supplements. Those covers complimented the writing and together brought Glorantha alive as I understood it from RQ2. I missed out on the RQ2 supplements, having just the main rule book, so the Renaissance products kept RQ alive for me. 

[MOB]

56 minutes ago, Paid a bod yn dwp said:

Yes I still remember that sense of excitement seeing your RuneQuest Renaissance period supplements. Those covers complimented the writing and together brought Glorantha alive as I understood it from RQ2. I missed out on the RQ2 supplements, having just the main rule book, so the Renaissance products kept RQ alive for me. 

I should also add the last three RQ Renaissance covers weren't done by Roger Raupp, but are still awesome. I worked with Stephen Langmead on the cover for Strangers in Prax, which I think is superb work (though I feel the print resolution when published was somehow not quite up to snuff unfortunately, at least on any copies I own). I still have the original concept sketches that Stephen did as we designed that cover of the Moonboat arrival.

The lovely cover of Dorastor: Land of Doom was done by Linda Michaels, and depicts a stained glass window in the Great Temple in Glamour. It is different in concept to the RQ Renaissance covers that preceded it, but I love it. (Spacing on who did the cover for Lords of Terror and don't have it handy...)

[7Tigers]

Stephen Langmead was the cover artist as well for The Lords of Terror.

[Paid a bod yn dwp]

1 hour ago, MOB said:

The lovely cover of Dorastor: Land of Doom was done by Linda Michaels, and depicts a stained glass window in the Great Temple in Glamour. It is different in concept to the RQ Renaissance covers that preceded it, but I love it

Yes I really liked the Rodger Raupp covers, they were just what was needed to bring Runequest Glorantha alive again. I was minded of the River of Cradles approach when I saw the excellent recent Monkey Ruins illustration by Andre Fetisov . 

I totally agree on the Dorastor cover too, although quite different in style, it was really intriguing, and sophisticated in its lunar propaganda. It worked really well, i liked it a lot, but felt it tread a fine line IMO with associations with medieval western stained glass, but that was easily overlooked - A very unique cover in fantasy RPGs.  What you say about the Strangers in Prax cover makes sense too looking back at it. Lords of Terror was very competent, but I felt that the Orlanthi was too viking/saxxon in feel, and perhaps the armour of his opponent (Ralzarkark? )was too much like medieval plate. 

Having said  that I was really grateful for that period of renaissance, as it kept my interest in RQ alive. Thanks MOB

[Psullie]

The River of Cradles cover is my all time favourite piece of RQ art, along with Sun County and Borderlands really captures the style of RQ. I also like how it's the same woman on RoC & Borderlands and that her scar hasn't quite healed on the later (although the LOVE/HATE finger tattoos are a bit cheesy)

[soltakss]

On 7/30/2017 at 6:55 PM, Yelm's Light said:

Enough, soltakss.  We both know my comment was sarcastic.

So was I! 

[MOB]

On 02/08/2017 at 0:49 AM, Psullie said:

The River of Cradles cover is my all time favourite piece of RQ art, along with Sun County and Borderlands really captures the style of RQ. I also like how it's the same woman on RoC & Borderlands and that her scar hasn't quite healed on the later (although the LOVE/HATE finger tattoos are a bit cheesy)

I love the River of Cradles cover too. It ties in beautifully with the cover of RQ2's Pavis, another favorite of mine.