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pachristian

What miniatures do you use for Westerners?

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I'm looking to run a game set in Safelester. I'm trying to find a "look and feel" for miniatures for the westerners.

I use Ancient Germans (and some Gauls) for Orlanthi, Babylonians/Assyrians for Lunars (not needed for this game), Classic Era Greeks for the Sun Dome Temple.

What seems appropriate for the west? Mostly I need bandits and soldiers from the city-states, but Seshnegi warriors and wizards would be useful as well.

Any suggestions?

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I am not a historical miniatures person, but:

Ancient Persian or Kshatryan Indian cavalry might fit, or Macedon or Diadoch forces. Visigoths or Merovingian Franks could work, too. The Beast societies of the Rokari military offers an excuse for variety of equipment and styles much like in the armies that Alexander faced.

For the Safelstrans, Orlanthi with loaned equipment from other cultures might be a theme, or a continuation of Seshnegi types. The Enerali-descended folk are likely to field cavalry. Mercenary troops prevail and may even have classical Greek style equipment -  not necessarily only Yelmalians - or Hannibal's Carthaginians, Nubians and Hispanic mercenaries (minus the elephants). You might have Hsunchen mercenaries - Pralori stag riders, mixed human/lion Basmoli forces, Telmori neolithics accompanied by wolves. Naskorion has troll allies, and troll or trollkin mercenaries might be possible, too, although possibly even less welcome than human mercenaries.

Bandits are likely marauding mercenaries without contract. Same as above, only dirtier and shabbier. If you can get medieval peasant militia with improvised farming tool weaponry, those can be mixed into bandit forces. If you are playing near the lake, marines deployed from galleys probably are a typical intervention force, too - possibly armed with weaponized oars (rower soldiers, linothorax).

Go wild with your field signs. That's where the mercenary forces have their magicians for regiment-affecting magics, and the Seshnegi-style forces quite likely, too.

Druids might be a good source for wizards in the field, if you can find ones with high head-gear. Inquisitors might work,  too, if you can cut down the crosses or modify them to staves.

Edited by Joerg
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The Westerners are quite difficult to pigeon-hole at present. 

I mentioned something very similar in another thread - From what depictions I have gleaned from the writings and artwork in the G2G, I tend to envision the Malkioni as having some analogies with ancient Carthagians, Successor Wars era Macedonians and the early Byzantine Empire Romans; as well as displaying very prominent influences from Near-Eastern cultures like Scythian, Sarmatian, Persian; as well as Vedic, and other Indo-Asian cultures (see The Kushan Empire, for example).

Some excellent suggestions from Joerg

Edited by Mankcam
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Thank you, Joerg and Mankcam. Those are some good suggestions.

There is a strong "they're not feudal knights" bias in Gloranthan writing these days. Which is not a bad thing, but if you use Eastern Med look for central Glorantha, India/SE Asia for Teshnos, and China for Kralorela, it doesn't leave much to fall back on. 

I've pigeonholed Scythians for Pentans, so I don't want to use those. I like the idea of using Macedonians for Westerners (keeping in mind there's a lot of variety in westerners. Many companies make Macedonians, so it's not too hard to find miniatures. 

Right now, the best bet for me is Dacians & Sarmations; which are sort of your pre-Byzantine Byzantine forces. They have a good, slightly exotic, look. And the description of Ethilrist and his men using a two-handed spear/lance from horseback is very much a Sarmation style of fighting.

An alternative is Arthurian British, using historic miniatures from the 5th century. This looks a lot like your Gaul or Gothic cavalry and infantry - not quite Germanic, but close. 

The trick, for me, is to pick a consistent look, so that units can be identified as being from a particular culture, and so players can identify troops and opponents on the table. 

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Well I'ld certainly go with a Macedonian look.

ebc043b11c5d8a1c1ccd921efc96d050.jpg

aa4211e9d8dc9f1b469c061a5d10ee17.jpg

Then add in some Sarmatian flavour

7b8f4f41829472924ce63d5b57d494d0--the-kn

 

Sarmatian-1.png

and Scythians

1987b2671bf2e63be53fef281c534f7e.jpg

However don't discount some northern indo-asian references, see below for Kushan warriors for instance:

1011_face.jpg

f41799e326248ff7913b44bf4c16d0f4.jpg

410587ac0ea6882761467cb700d38768--india-

 

Edited by Mankcam
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I apologise regarding the size of those pics, I tried to resize them but they keep coming out so large - my tech-fu is low...

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As you can guess from my painting, the Kushan riders in lamellar with their high collars are my favourite. The high collars especially are a neat detail, you can also see this in some earlier Chinese, contemporary Xiongnu, and later Korean armours. 

Also moustaches, fabulous moustaches everywhere.

Here's Jeff's notes on Seshnelan art direction, some good links there:

http://www.glorantha.com/docs/seshnela-art-direction/

3010400128_b36d2bc026_b.jpg

1753397_1408510432.9334.jpg

037d3c04c1f05a1dda8e6e11de5ed89d--centra

ec4124954bb8bda324069f290a99d6d4--histor

Arsacid%20Parthian%20Cataphract%20vs%20S

THe illustrations in the Kushan Montvert book are not very good, but keep in mind there would've been more Indian looking troops as well:

JRAlViy.jpg

67mL0.jpg Xuaqi.jpg

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The Kushans look really good. And based on the Guide comments, that would be the design to use. However, they don't seem to be available in 28mm.

I found a company that does Kushans (http://khurasanminiatures.tripod.com/kushan.html) but they're 15mm....Parthians are available in 28mm (https://aventineminiatures.co.uk/parthians/) or (https://www.essexminiatures.co.uk/collections/25mm-ancient-parthians) or (http://www.oldgloryminiatures.com/products.asp?cat=152). But most of these seem to be in 25mm scale - believe me these do NOT look right next to 28mm figures. Sarmatians are available from several manufacturers (https://us-store.warlordgames.com/collections/dacians, and https://www.wargamesfoundry.com/collections/dacians-and-sarmatians for example). 

I am not advocating one miniatures company or another - I'm just putting up some links for anyone else who is in the same boat I am.

The only lines of Indian figures that are (apparently) reliable all seem to be from the India Mutiny. The "look" isn't quite right. I think I could use Sarmatians and build up their collars with greens stuff. I'll forget the Falxmen, and possibly use Persian Immortals, for the armored foot troops (and swap out the shields). I'm not doing an army; I just need to be able to field a squad against some PC's and their followers.

And don't worry about the picture sizes! Makes it easier for my weak old eyes to see.

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The Malkioni are a large ethnic population, and like Theyalans, they will have various regional varieties.

It's a bit difficult to envision the Westerners until a focused Malkioni product is released, however one can get a flavour for them by mixing several sources. The G2G is the greatest resource, but here are some additional images that I have gathered in my files to portray Horali Foot Soldiers and Cataphracts. It's a hodgepodge of pics ranging from Etruscans, Macedonians, and Byzantine Romans through to Parthians, Scythians, and Kushans. Mixing these influences tends to put me in the ballpark of how to visualise the Malkioni at present.

So this is a bit of an image dump, not sure if its helpful or not: 

turk_warrior04.jpg

t-warr.gif

husarze+i+pancerny.JPG

 

f28f0dfd63d72f38b4519b72a7574e49--dark-a

 

b8d01a3cebfaf1b28a9e685478b3e927.png

838_face.jpg

 

d80cf8aee751e3b6e797327588fcd6b8--cartha

75d81cd6e36499afd3fcf915d4ac5616--dark-a

sketches11.png

b37fa67eb716af3596b43d66094c9d3f.jpg

 

Parthian_Lancer.gif

 

 

Romans.jpg

410587ac0ea6882761467cb700d38768--india-

sanniti8.jpg

6c4ae2e92d85.jpg

maxresdefault.jpg

4069d76403d9.jpg

b985544e62707e8f4477360076284b97.jpg

8f4ea6fc466bb7343531056f2b286500.jpg

b9bff9679ca877e96dfe21627a1e8cd0.jpg

 

 

da362c620376dec0ae330a020170d340.jpg

sassanian_heavy_cavalry_standardbearer.j

parthian_cataphracts.jpg

66f845b189861031c10e6f07e51ac7ca.jpg

Edited by Mankcam
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I've always thought that the very greatest duck heroes (behave) wore contraptions like the Husaria's wings in an atavistic attempt to manifest pre-Curse greatness...

... on foot.

As quasi-Orlanthi heroes, their 'Four Supporters' in battle spend much of their time doing just that - trying to keep the hero upright.

(Edit: Very sorry, thought this was in the 'other' thread. Will stop derailing. :))

Edited by Quackatoa
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On 7/30/2017 at 9:43 PM, Mankcam said:

I apologise regarding the size of those pics, I tried to resize them but they keep coming out so large - my tech-fu is low...

No worries, they are lovely pictures.

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The Mongolian horseman has a very odd looking helmet, almost like a certoon character with a big scarf and little eyes.

I hadn't seen a picture of a Bolgar Knight before, very interesting.

Where did you find the Russian illustrations?

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Yeah I thought that fellow looked a bit like Marvin The Martian lol.

I don't remember the actual sites I grabbed these from. I tend to just wade through Google Images and save images willy nilly. I really should follow the source pages ...

Edited by Mankcam

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Victrix Limited has a few sets in their 28mm Ancients line to represent Macedonians. Check out their figure sets here. They also have others in their Ancients line that could represent Lunars. I received a free worldwide postage discount code via their email newsletter that is valid through 21 October 2019: AUTUMNSALE

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One of my Western sketches in The Armies and Enemies of Dragon Pass sequel.

This noble is equipped for lion hunting.

 

Talari knight.png

Edited by M Helsdon
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3 hours ago, M Helsdon said:

One of my Western sketches in The Armies and Enemies of Dragon Pass sequel.

This noble is equipped for lion hunting.

 

Talari knight.png

Maybe because the black and white, at least because the chest armor, if I didn't know what represents your  beautiful sketch, I would have said that represents a high status knight (prince duke, king, because the crown)  in gala during the Renaissance

edit : It is just an impression, not a challenge, I m not an expert

Edited by French Desperate WindChild

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16 minutes ago, French Desperate WindChild said:

Maybe because the black and white, at least because the chest armor, if I didn't know what represents your  beautiful sketch, I would have said that represents a high status knight (prince duke, king, because the crown)  in gala during the Renaissance

 

There are some obvious visual similarities between late BC/early AD cataphracts and the European knights of the high middle ages (heavy armor, barding, etc.), so you're not totally off. 

Conveniently for us, that means we get to play at the whole "knight" fantasy introduced to western Glorantha way before my time, but without ruining the whole Antiquity feel.

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The art direction hasn't provided a clear enough place for me to land on.   However:

 

mongol-heavy-cavalry-lancers.jpg

 

Or Sarmatians.

Sarmatians are always my "go-to" for heavily armored, no chain mail, yet "not-Knight" ancient extra heavy cavalry. 

 

20200601_093747.jpg

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On 7/29/2017 at 2:54 PM, pachristian said:

m looking to run a game set in Safelester. I'm trying to find a "look and feel" for miniatures for the westerners.

I use Ancient Germans (and some Gauls) for Orlanthi, Babylonians/Assyrians for Lunars (not needed for this game), Classic Era Greeks for the Sun Dome Temple.

What seems appropriate for the west? Mostly I need bandits and soldiers from the city-states, but Seshnegi warriors and wizards would be useful as well.

Any suggestions?

I use Woody, Jessie and prospector myself, though every now and again I throw in Mr Potato Head, though he is not truly “Western"

Edited by Bill the barbarian
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4 hours ago, French Desperate WindChild said:

Maybe because the black and white, at least because the chest armor, if I didn't know what represents your  beautiful sketch, I would have said that represents a high status knight (prince duke, king, because the crown)  in gala during the Renaissance

edit : It is just an impression, not a challenge, I m not an expert

The bronze cuirass, scale skirt and lamellar limb armor is all derived from sources plus or minus two centuries of 0 AD, though some details may be later, with some added fantasy. The horse armor is bronze for the chamfron and criniere, and the barding is lacquered cuir boilli plates on a leather backing. Whilst this noble has a lance, cataphracts go back a long way.

Most of the other cataphracts I have drawn are wearing face masks which are distinctly Persian, but for this one I decided he should be bare faced, as lions rarely loose arrows.

Edited by M Helsdon
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Looking deeper at the Fireforge catalog, I note that the Byzantine foot does not have chain mail, either the spear man nor auxiliaries.  These could be used for Glorantha figures very easily.  I don't know exactly what troops I'll be modelling with these, but I plan to pick some up. 

https://fireforge-games.com/byzantines-25

byzantine-spearmen.jpg

byzantine-auxiliaries.jpg

Their Mongol cavalry could be Char-Un, and the Mongol Heavy Cavalry Lancers I posted the image of earlier.

https://fireforge-games.com/mongol-horde-22

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On 6/1/2020 at 10:27 AM, Bill the barbarian said:

I use Woody, Jessie and prospector myself, though every now and again I throw in Mr Potato Head, though he is not truly “Western"

Ah - the scale's all wrong. I could use Woody as Gonn Orta...

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