Jump to content

Ken Hite's 2008 review of BRP-BGB


MOB

Recommended Posts

The review that MOB originally posted has some pretty good praise for BRP, and great to see that the review came from Ken Hite, who is well known for his creativity in the rpg industry. (As an aside, I always though his gritty 'Fallout-style' setting 'The Day After Ragnarok' was much more suited to BRP than it was for HERO System, Savage Worlds and FATE).

That article really makes you want to grab the BGB off the shelf and start converting your favourite setting straight away. Pretty much what I was doing for years with a collection of house rules that I had scrapped together from my various Chaosium rule sets. It was great to see it all collected again under one cover. I had missed the earlier boxed sets of the generic BRP rules, so I was quite happy when the BGB was released.

Ken Hite's review was right on the money for me.

I don't think the notion of a generic BRP rule set should be a perpetually pending project. Once the dust settles on the RQG releases, then a revamp of a generic rule set could be a good thing, as there are quite a few generic rules about at present, and they are on the rise.

Off hand I can think of titles like Savage Worlds, GURPS, Cortex, Hero System, Fuzion, OpenD6, Masterbook, Unisystem,  Cypher System, and FATE Core. I keep coming across new ones all the time, such as Other Worlds, Insight, Entropic Gaming System, and Genesys. 

Revolution D100 is a great game, I'm really happy with those rules. However it makes sense for Chaosium to jump back on the bandwagon again at some stage, as there is always an appeal in a generic rule set.

I think the BGB should remain in pdf and PoD, but a refreshed Chaosium generic rule set could be a good thing. Not such a warts-and-all collection of various rule sets like the BGB, but something with a little more internal consistency.

I think something that's more or less compatible with CoC 7E would be the logical step, for the sake of consistency. It's also less fiddily than classic RQ, which is probably the way to go for a generic set, leaving RQ as its own system specifically tailored for Glorantha. 

Probably time to rename it something other than BRP.  Even the old boxed set called 'Worlds of Wonder' was a more evocative title for generic rules than the very functional title of 'Basic Roleplaying'. (which, by today's standards, is far from 'basic', being a medium-crunch ruleset).

Perhaps just calling it 'The Chaosium Roleplaying System' would be more appropriate now, and 'CRP' works just as well as 'BRP' for shorthand.

Anyway, just my thoughts on it all...

Edited by Mankcam
  • Like 1

" Sure it's fun, but it is also well known that a D20 roll and an AC is no match against a hefty swing of a D100% and a D20 Hit Location Table!"

Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 hours ago, Mankcam said:

 Perhaps just calling it 'The Chaosium Roleplaying System' would be more appropriate now, and 'CRP' works just as well as 'BRP' for shorthand.

I'll be honest, I think you're asking for trouble if the abbreviation of your system name is CRP...

  • Like 3
  • Haha 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 hours ago, Mankcam said:

Probably time to rename it something other than BRP.  Even the old boxed set called 'Worlds of Wonder' was a more evocative title for generic rules than the very functional title of 'Basic Roleplaying'. (which, by today's standards, is far from 'basic', being a medium-crunch ruleset).

Umm.  You yourself cite GURPS here.  That's even worse than "BRP" (and doesn't seem to have hurt SJG's product); names like "Unisystem" and "OpenD6" aren't much better!

That said, I am 145% in agreement with the meat of your point:  a unified BRP, refreshed to include post-BGB content and rebuilt more coherently by nuChaosium, would be INCREDIBLY welcome!

  • Like 2

C'es ne pas un .sig

Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 hours ago, BigJackBrass said:

I'll be honest, I think you're asking for trouble if the abbreviation of your system name is CRP...

Heh heh

Now I see that, I can't unsee it!

lol

" Sure it's fun, but it is also well known that a D20 roll and an AC is no match against a hefty swing of a D100% and a D20 Hit Location Table!"

Link to comment
Share on other sites

26 minutes ago, MOB said:

Basic Ultimate Role Playing System - SJG probably wouldn't like that

or... !

Generic Original Role Playing System

Because you guys had gorps before ever there was a GURPS!

  • Like 2

C'es ne pas un .sig

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Given that I'm an Aussie, I would have no issues with it being called 'Bloody Role Playing!'

:D

Edited by Mankcam
  • Like 1

" Sure it's fun, but it is also well known that a D20 roll and an AC is no match against a hefty swing of a D100% and a D20 Hit Location Table!"

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 29/08/2017 at 6:17 PM, g33k said:

Umm.  You yourself cite GURPS here.  That's even worse than "BRP" (and doesn't seem to have hurt SJG's product); names like "Unisystem" and "OpenD6" aren't much better!

Yes. GURPS sounds strange ... But, as it is said in its rules, it was originally a joke, a code word to describe the game while Steve Jackson was designing it and searching for a better name. But he never found a better one.

I fully do agree with Mankcam. A new edition of the BRP, more consistent (and consistent with the 7th edition of Cthulhu) would be welcome. Having said that, I don't think that changing the name would be a good idea. People know that the BRP is Chaosium's Roleplaying game, and it does exist since dozens of years. So, going on with that history is the best think to do.

BRP is also the Basic RolePlaying Game because it inspired a lot of other RPG ... Including GURPS.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Gollum said:

BRP is also the Basic RolePlaying Game because it inspired a lot of other RPG ... Including GURPS.

Oh, I think Champions/HERO (and of course TFT) are much more the direct inspirations/antecedents for GURPS.  I don't doubt there was some examination of BRP/WoW in producing GURPS, however!

BRP (16pg) - 1980

Champions - 1981

Worlds of Wonder (BRP + a bunch of genre/setting exemplars) - 1982

GURPS - 1986

  • Like 1

C'es ne pas un .sig

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I've gone back and forth on this, but let me play devil's advocate.

What useful work would such a generic introductory rule book do that isn't already done by existing products?

We already have a free introductory rulebook for CRQ, so there's no point in doing another one just for the sake of being generic. Doing a generic one based on CoC makes no sense because all the new game concepts in development are likely to be based more on CRQ than they are CoC. Doing a generic one with both CRQ and CoC mechanics in it would be needlessly confusing and therefore wouldn't serve the purpose of an introductory book.

So what's left? Maybe an introductory book for CoC itself, in the mould of the RQ Quickstart. Is such a thing really needed though? CoC has managed for decades without it. Any such project should be measured on it's own merits, not for some sense of arbitrary symmetry in the product line. CRQ is a new upcoming product, so the Quickstart made sense from a marketing perspective and as a chance to market test some of the new mechanics but there's no such motivation for a CoC Quickstart.

So I'm not sure I really see the point.

Simon Hibbs

Edited by simonh

Check out the Runequest Glorantha Wiki for RQ links and resources. Any updates or contributions welcome!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, simonh said:

So what's left? Maybe an introductory book for CoC itself, in the mould of the RQ Quickstart. Is such a thing really needed though? CoC has managed for decades without it. Any such project should be measured on it's own merits, not for some sense of arbitrary symmetry in the product line. CRQ is a new upcoming product, so the Quickstart made sense from a marketing perspective and as a chance to market test some of the new mechanics but there's no such motivation for a CoC Quickstart.

So I'm not sure I really see the point.

Simon Hibbs

Surely "Introduction to CoC" or "Introduction to Roleplaying in Glorantha" are specific to the worlds or genres in which they are being played? It's great to have Intro to CoC if I want to play a modern-day horror game (with or without the Mythos) or a Glorantha introduction for fantasy worlds. 

But if I wanted to play in a science-fantasy world (like the 80's cartoon He Man and the Masters of the Universe) or a post-apocalyptic setting (like Mad Max or Gamma World) would either a CoC intro or RQG intro have all the material I need?

Hence the calls for an updated BRP/BGB, which I would support.

Colin

PS: I am probably getting "RuneQuest Glorantha" mixed up with CRQ (Chaosium RuneQuest?), which I confess is new to me, so apologies in advance.

 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

A generic ruleset makes no sense if one just wants to play Lovecraftian horror or Gloranthan fantasy, we certainly got that covered.

However having a toolbox set of rules is quite appealing for those who want to tinker with one-shots of various genres, or porting their favourite movie or television series into a rpg setting.

There currently are a significant number of systems on the market to suggest that many people like having a generic set of rules for such a purpose. It makes sense for Chaosium to get back in on the action, even if it is only one rulebook rather than an entire line. In some ways I wouldn't want to see an entire line anyway, as I think Chaosium's resources do well to remain focused in Glorantha and Lovecraft.

BRP is a great system, a medium-crunch tinker's paradise. Having a set of generic rules on the game shelves does make sense, for the same reason why Chaosium is updating a few of their classic campaigns to CoC 7E - just keeping current keeps you in the game.

I'm not suggesting a huge BRP generic line, but I would like to set a cohesive set of generic rules. Some of the innovations from CoC 7E would work well across a range of settings - skill levels, bonus/penalty dice,combat rules, etc, and it makes sense to use it as a generic base anyway, considering the professions are easily ported, stuff like that. Unsure about the percentile core Characteristics however, perhaps its just too much a departure from the rest of the BRP stat blocks (even though it is only Effort %, Stamina%, Agility% etc, just recorded differently),

Anyway I feel there will always be some market for at least a generic took kit ruleset for BRP. I also think likewise for HQ actually, I just don't feel the HQ rules suit my Gloranthan games, but I can easily see them doing Pulp Adventure or Hollywood Action etc, and they are a good rival for FATE Core. It is horses-for-courses however, as HQ models pulp/action well, with a big focus on narrative aspects; wheres BRP is more gritty, appealing a little more to crunchy simulation.

So I guess if we don't see BRP supported as a generic rulebook, then perhaps a generic HQ could be released again. But I guess that's a topic for another thread.

Edited by Mankcam
  • Like 1

" Sure it's fun, but it is also well known that a D20 roll and an AC is no match against a hefty swing of a D100% and a D20 Hit Location Table!"

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Mankcam said:

BRP is a great system, a medium-crunch tinker's paradise. Having a set of generic rules on the game shelves does make sense, for the same reason why Chaosium is updating a few of their classic campaigns to CoC 7E - just keeping current keeps you in the game.

As noted above, we've still got plenty of copies from the last softcover printing left to sell - so BRP is for all intents and purposes still in print. The available edition mightn't match our current production standards, but I think the cover art at least is wonderful and evocative of what you get inside. Just as we're updating some classic campaigns to keep them current, we'll look at what to do with BRP when the time comes too. 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Well I guess it feels out of print as I never see the BGB anywhere on the game shelves. But again, I am living in Brisbane, its amazing to even find comic/games shops heh heh

I think having some version of that same cover art on the next edition is the way to go, or at least on the title page. It's such a great piece for a generic ruleset.

Edited by Mankcam
  • Like 1

" Sure it's fun, but it is also well known that a D20 roll and an AC is no match against a hefty swing of a D100% and a D20 Hit Location Table!"

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 2 weeks later...

I admit, it was a good thing this GBG thing was put forth and finally done for the future, in case anyone who likes this sort of thing must have all the data in one place. But, I am not a particular fan of "rules bibles". For me, a modular system is much more usable, atleast when it comes to BRP, my favourite RPG system of all time. It breaks down into how you use the rules. Are they just a base for your own interpretation of BRP, which needs so much less details? Or are they something you need like a rules map describing ALL possibilities. The latter indicates that the user don't have much experience or interest (or both) in house ruling the system, which in my RPG life has always been something that happens sooner or later. So, this book, IMHO seems suited to the players that wants EVERY question answered but don't have the inner drive of tinkering with the rules to the extent that they truly evolve beyond their starting ideas.

"I intend to live forever, or die trying" - Groucho Marx

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just for a trip down Memory Lane, during the development of the big gold book I asked about changing the name to "The Chaos Engine", "The Chaosium Engine", or "The Chaos System", but no one went for it. 

Dustin also asked me if I'd be up for the equivalent of an Even More Basic Roleplaying book, but we never could get the stars to align for that. 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...