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RuneQuest rules at Gen Con

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On 8/23/2017 at 2:24 PM, g33k said:

"Campaign Coins" is a custom fantasy-game-coin maker; easily google'able.

And hopefully just as easily avoided. I don't mind this sort of product, but I sincerely hope that it doesn't become a necessity to play the game. 

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36 minutes ago, Atgxtg said:

And hopefully just as easily avoided. I don't mind this sort of product, but I sincerely hope that it doesn't become a necessity to play the game. 

I'd say that's a pretty unwarranted fear.  I don't really go for these sorts of commercial gewgaws myself, but even games that require 'tokens' or special dice ala FATE are pretty easy to work around.

*that said, the props in Chaosiums Orient Express were astonishing.

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1 hour ago, styopa said:

I'd say that's a pretty unwarranted fear.  I don't really go for these sorts of commercial gewgaws myself, but even games that require 'tokens' or special dice ala FATE are pretty easy to work around.

I don't mind the special dice so much- they serve a purpose. 

1 hour ago, styopa said:

*that said, the props in Chaosiums Orient Express were astonishing.

Oh, can you elaborate on that? 

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3 hours ago, Atgxtg said:

And hopefully just as easily avoided. I don't mind this sort of product, but I sincerely hope that it doesn't become a necessity to play the game. 

As cool and desirable as they are (I've seen the actual prototypes), it is not necessary to own any of these - or other coins or tokens - to play RQG.

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2 hours ago, MOB said:

As cool and desirable as they are (I've seen the actual prototypes), it is not necessary to own any of these - or other coins or tokens - to play RQG.

Oh, yeah...  what about these... or these?

Take my money already!  ;)

 

Coins-AU.jpg

Coins-US.jpg

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13 hours ago, Atgxtg said:

 

Oh, can you elaborate on that? 

From passports to luggage tags, it is amazing;

http://diehardgamefan.com/2014/01/10/tabletop-preview-a-look-at-horror-on-the-orient-express-ancillary-and-add-on-items-call-of-cthulhu/

11 hours ago, MOB said:

As cool and desirable as they are (I've seen the actual prototypes), it is not necessary to own any of these - or other coins or tokens - to play RQG.

Hopefully they're priced competitively; Iirc you can buy "random assorted foreign coins" on eBay for about $5/lb.

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1 hour ago, styopa said:

From passports to luggage tags, it is amazing;

It's depressing. It reeks of desperation. 

1 hour ago, styopa said:

Thanks for the link. I'm glad for the information, not so pleased with what Chaosium is doing. It looks more like ThinkGeek than The Chaosium. 

1 hour ago, styopa said:

Hopefully they're priced competitively; Iirc you can buy "random assorted foreign coins" on eBay for about $5/lb.

Judging from the prices listed on the website, no they's not. A bag of 51 "tabletop coins" list for $39.99 or about $75.40/lb. It would be a lot less expensive just to rob my piggy bank and use real coins. Most players think that GMs are stingy with wealth now, just imagine what it will be like when buying enough Lunars to learn a Battle Magic spell cost more than the core rules.

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1 hour ago, Atgxtg said:

It's depressing. It reeks of desperation. 

 

If something is depressing it is your attitude. Used in a intelligent way the use of coin (an other props) can greatly enhance the gaming experience for a lot of players.

it isn't like it will be an integral part of the game as specialy designed (and difficult to reproduce at home) dice or tokens would be (jfr WFRP 3).

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1 hour ago, Atgxtg said:

It's depressing. It reeks of desperation. 

Thanks for the link. I'm glad for the information, not so pleased with what Chaosium is doing. It looks more like ThinkGeek than The Chaosium. 

Judging from the prices listed on the website, no they's not. A bag of 51 "tabletop coins" list for $39.99 or about $75.40/lb. It would be a lot less expensive just to rob my piggy bank and use real coins. Most players think that GMs are stingy with wealth now, just imagine what it will be like when buying enough Lunars to learn a Battle Magic spell cost more than the core rules.

I think you're misinterpreting it?  Note that the Orient Express was the (IIRC) last in-process publication of the 'old' Chaosium.  So it may well have been started with desperation in mind.  

However, when the new (old) crew took over, it was AFAIK an unfulfilled kickstarter - authors hadn't been paid, the project was way behind and in a shambles.  So the new(old) guys stepped in, they put in their OWN $ to push it out the door and fulfill all those kickstarter backer's expectations.  They paid the authors.  And they made a marquee product that said "we're not screwing around".

Nice writeup at http://geekandsundry.com/cthulhu-company-kickstarted-itself-to-death-then-this-happened/

And it is a magnificent product.  The gimmicks weren't included in lieu of content; I don't know that I've ever had a single RPG product that had MORE content?  1100 pages. Something like 9 LBS of books?

Nah, I really think it's not at all how you're perceiving it.

Do I think the current management would commit to such a project?  I'd have said no, but with the Guide and (I think?) they're associated with Sandy's Gods' War kickstarter, I don't think they'll shy away from high price-point products.  I don't think there's any doubt people are getting what they pay for, either.

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21 hours ago, Dr. H. teph said:

I have bought way to much coins from them before and always been more than  satsified ( acctually bought several series for use in a RQ campaign that never got off). The actual coins are a great resource at the table as it focus the greed of the players something enormously. But as 4000 L are difficult to handle at the table :-) I use other types of treasure objects and jewelry to handle the larger amounts of coins instead.

Indeed!  I find "craft" stores have all sorts of interesting "treasure-y" props for cheap.  Faux gemstones, etc...

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2 hours ago, Atgxtg said:

It's depressing. It reeks of desperation. 

Thanks for the link. I'm glad for the information, not so pleased with what Chaosium is doing. It looks more like ThinkGeek than The Chaosium...

Note that many of these are optional add-on products -- they aren't REQUIRED for play.

Also recall that CoC has long been one of the most prop-heavy RPGs at the tabletop.  When the publisher doesn't provide them, many Keepers do their own!  And there's also 3rd-party / aftermarket endeavors to fullfill the demand for CoC-props.  Clearly, there are a *LOT* of core Chaosium players/customers for whom these are important / desirable / valuable items!

You're coming across as really pissing on these other players' play-styles, about how they are all having wrongbad fun...  You may "only" be criticizing "The Chaosium," but if Chaosium is providing RPG props for Chaosium RPG games... calling them out on it as "ThinkGeek not Chaosium" is equally critical of the players who like/buy/use that stuff.

 

2 hours ago, Atgxtg said:

Judging from the prices listed on the website, no they's not. A bag of 51 "tabletop coins" list for $39.99 or about $75.40/lb. It would be a lot less expensive just to rob my piggy bank and use real coins. Most players think that GMs are stingy with wealth now, just imagine what it will be like when buying enough Lunars to learn a Battle Magic spell cost more than the core rules.

Yeah, I admit that while I think those coins look really cool... I'm not sure I see the $$$-proposition for my games.  I mean, $39.99 is a new hardcover rulebook...

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16 minutes ago, g33k said:

I'm not sure I see the $$$-proposition for my games.  I mean, $39.99 is a new hardcover rulebook...

...which I'd rather hand to Chaosium for more actual game materials.  Not to discourage vendors making such stuff, but that's why I'm not their market, either.

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7 hours ago, Atgxtg said:

Thanks for the link. I'm glad for the information, not so pleased with what Chaosium is doing. It looks more like ThinkGeek than The Chaosium. 

That link was from 2014. The HotOE Kickstarter and its array of gewgaws was set up by the earlier people in charge. Chaosium is out of the bling business now; we leave that sort of stuff to licensees and Redbubble, and stick to our strengths as a book publisher instead.

4 hours ago, g33k said:

Yeah, I admit that while I think those coins look really cool... I'm not sure I see the $$$-proposition for my games.  I mean, $39.99 is a new hardcover rulebook...

Horses for courses. As noted, they are not needed to play RQG, but they are beautiful and will be nice to own.

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6 hours ago, Dr. H. teph said:

If something is depressing it is your attitude. Used in a intelligent way the use of coin (an other props) can greatly enhance the gaming experience for a lot of players.

Actually I was referring to all the merchandising for Orient Express. Coffee mugs, medallions, luggage tags. All to support ONE CoC supplement. Wouldn't all that money and effort been better spent on useful gaming content? Or, at least for more generic CoC products that would sell to those who didn't buy Orient Express? The whole thing looks like a desparation move, which, apparently, it was. 

6 hours ago, Dr. H. teph said:

it isn't like it will be an integral part of the game as specialy designed (and difficult to reproduce at home) dice or tokens would be (jfr WFRP 3).

Exactly, which is what is so bad about it. As well all are aware, RPG companies have only so much time, effort, and money to devote to products. So if we got lugage tags and medallions it was at the expense of something else. 

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6 hours ago, styopa said:

 

However, when the new (old) crew took over, it was AFAIK an unfulfilled kickstarter - authors hadn't been paid, the project was way behind and in a shambles.  So the new(old) guys stepped in, they put in their OWN $ to push it out the door and fulfill all those kickstarter backer's expectations.  They paid the authors.  And they made a marquee product that said "we're not screwing around".

Thanks for the background info. That the old Chaosium had such massive money problems and all despite raising three quarters of a million dollars is quite surprising and, yes, depressing. When I thing of how lacking Chaosium was in supporting any of their product lines other than CoC, and how the BGB barely got out of the door, and then languished with little support, it's shocking. It's almost as bad as what happened with Decipher. 

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5 hours ago, g33k said:

Note that many of these are optional add-on products -- they aren't REQUIRED for play.

I'm so glad. I'd hate to think that there would ever be an RPG out there that couldn't be played without purchasing the company's custom made, overpriced toothpicks. 

5 hours ago, g33k said:

Also recall that CoC has long been one of the most prop-heavy RPGs at the tabletop.  When the publisher doesn't provide them, many Keepers do their own!  

And that's great. Props can add to the atmosphere of an RPG session. 

5 hours ago, g33k said:

And there's also 3rd-party / aftermarket endeavors to fullfill the demand for CoC-props.

Nothing wrong with that, per say, either. If a company wants to try and make a profit selling obviously fake (as opposed to counterfeit) money, that's up to them. But when I see an RPG company with a history of limited funds and products jumping into such a field, with other companies already established at doing it, I'm not happy. I really wonder if Chaosium might have done a bit better over the years if they 

5 hours ago, g33k said:

 Clearly, there are a *LOT* of core Chaosium players/customers for whom these are important / desirable / valuable items!

That's not so clear. Heck, I doubt if there are even a LOT of core Chaosium customers. If there were so many core customers buying up such products wouldn't the company been in better finical shape all those years?

5 hours ago, g33k said:

You're coming across as really pissing on these other players' play-styles, about how they are all having wrongbad fun...

Really? So If I criticize the "collectible" nature of games these days I'm criticizing the people who buy such products?

 

5 hours ago, g33k said:

 You may "only" be criticizing "The Chaosium," but if Chaosium is providing RPG props for Chaosium RPG games... calling them out on it as "ThinkGeek not Chaosium" is equally critical of the players who like/buy/use that stuff.

No, I'm criticizing the decision of an RPG company to spend money producing products that won't sell enough to be worth the investment. That's not the fans fault. Just how many boxes of Orient Express toothpicks do you think they call sell? And will the company make enough off of them to justify the investment? It's a niche market of a niche market of a niche market. There can't be that many gamers who play CoC, bought Horror on the Orient Express, and also bought the toothpicks. 

5 hours ago, g33k said:

 

Yeah, I admit that while I think those coins look really cool... I'm not sure I see the $$$-proposition for my games.  I mean, $39.99 is a new hardcover rulebook...

Exactly. I don't see paying around 80 cents a coin for play money. To be a practical investment it probably needs to cost less than just using real money.

Years ago, I did up some PADD props for a Star Trek campaign. If I were to do them today I wouldn't spend more making them than the cost of a cheap tablet. In fact, I'd probably just buy a cheap tablet or two to use as PADDs. But I wouldn't spend 80 cents to buy a prop penny, unless there was something significant that made the penny very important to the adventure. 

I mean, I could certainly see buying a Maltese Falcon prop to use if I were running that story and an RPG adventure. it would have a nice impact on the players when revealed. But  I wouldn't want to spend the money on a high grade studio replica of one just to have around the gaming table. 

 

BTW, it's off topic, but consider mixing the plots of The  Call of Cthulhu and The Maltese Falcon into a single adventure. 

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Aren't the coins being produced by Campaign Coins? And it's a kickstarter, so if there's not enough interest the product won't be produced.

Seems pretty low-risk and low-effort for Chaosium.

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New Chaosium have made many very sensible and sometimes tough business decisions and gaming decisions. I appalled them in this. 

Its licensees have done well with successful Cthulhu Kickstarters (e.g. Props of Nyarlathotep (2); Cthulhu Metal Dice Set; Call of Cthulhu Document Wallet). The demand for bling is there, and this should provide Chaosium with extra funds to produce its high quality products. This is surely a good thing?

As for the relevance to your game, that will be down to your situation and style. We all recognise that we go about play in different ways.

One last point: quite a bit of the bling has had practical application from dice to maps to miniatures to even T-shirts (not that I need any more). IMHO things like coins should be kept back in play and got out as an unexpected 'wow' factor and a laugh for the players. 

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If you all want to discuss the Campaign Coins Kickstarter, please create a new thread. This thread is about the RQ Rules at GenCon,

 

Jeff

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On 8/22/2017 at 10:12 PM, Texarkana said:


The second wave of books will include ... Trollpack ...

Wait what???!?

I had understood that "Trollpak" the RQClassic supplement was coming out via the RQClassic Kickstarter ( @Rick Meints @Jeff) ; and that there was a similar-named HQ product in development ( @boztakang @Ian Cooper)

Is there a 3rd "Trollpac" product, for RQG ?

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5 hours ago, Jeff said:

If you all want to discuss the Campaign Coins Kickstarter, please create a new thread. This thread is about the RQ Rules at GenCon,

 

Jeff

Fair enough. 

 

To those who were fortunate enough to accure a copy, how does character generation work? Is is like RQ2, EQ3, BRP? Judging from some of the posts it seems a little Pendragonish with the background stuff, but does any of this lifepath stuff actually affect game stats and mechanics, or are they just there to flesh out the character for roleplaying.

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6 hours ago, g33k said:

Wait what???!?

I had understood that "Trollpak" the RQClassic supplement was coming out via the RQClassic Kickstarter ( @Rick Meints @Jeff) ; and that there was a similar-named HQ product in development ( @boztakang @Ian Cooper)

Is there a 3rd "Trollpac" product, for RQG ?

Almost certainly.

Don't forget that every version of RQ, and almost every cults book, must have a copy of the Kyger Litor cult.

Edited by soltakss
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