Guide to Glorantha Group Read Week 9 - Genertela

[David Scott]

Genertela section discussion here!

Don't forget Colin Driver's epic maps and the artwork.

https://basicroleplaying.org/topic/6664-guide-to-glorantha-group-read-week-9

https://basicroleplaying.org/topic/6665-guide-to-glorantha-group-read-week-9-deep-discussion/

https://basicroleplaying.org/topic/6640-guide-to-glorantha-group-read-week-9-errors/

[jajagappa]

This is one of the sections where I'm glad I have the book and not just the pdf to appreciate the double-page map. (Particularly since the map pixelates when zooming in)

A huge continent.  What's interesting?  What are these two black spots?  A gigantic crater!  A Hellcrack!  Then there's the Wastes, an Elf Sea, a Glacier, a Sea of Fog, endless/limitless oceans, lots of islands, a wild land dominated by the Elder Races, a Holy Country shared by merfolk, sorcerers, and trolls (oh my!) ...

A good opening to what comes next.

 

[metcalph]

p166 the section on Fronela omits mention of the Greenleaf rebellion (mentioned back in RQ3).  I now think it was before the Ban and part of the White Bear Empire.

p167 The rewritten section omits mention of the Luatha and Dragonewts.

Map  The most striking change for me is how thin Seshnela was (I know the change to a thicker Seshnela was made in Genertela: Crucible of the Hero Wars).  Likewise the Wastelands seems much smaller.

[David Scott]

4 hours ago, metcalph said:

Map  The most striking change for me is how thin Seshnela was (I know the change to a thicker Seshnela was made in Genertela: Crucible of the Hero Wars).  Likewise the Wastelands seems much smaller.

IIRC, this was due to Greg and a scaling mistake he made. From memory Genertela is 3000 miles across and some where along the line the continent got stretched. I even think it there was an imperial/metric mistake mixed in there. Anyway it took Colin a major amount of work to rescale the main map. Different sections were stretched in different ways. Greg did it all on paper, separate pieces of paper, it was only when they were scanned and stitched that the errors were realised.

[Joerg]

The maps in Genertela Box were notoriously off-scale, and the big foldout map had massive mistakes. My go-to maps for an overview of Genertela used to be the historical maps in Trollpak in the RQ3 era.

I don't recall Seshnela having been made thicker. Anyway, Seshnela is mostly drowned, and the current Seshnela really is the kingdom of Tanisor - the first time in Seshnelan history that a barbarian Greatwood kingdom has Malkioni wizards on its side.

 

Genert as the ruler of the continent - in a similar sense as Ezkankekko ruled the Kingdom of Night, or even without tribute? How much was Genert's presence felt in say Fronela, Seshnela, or Kerofinela? Did it affect Kralorela or Teshnos at all, or are these remnants of Vithela that just happen to lie adjacent to Genert's continent?

 

[David Scott]

13 minutes ago, Joerg said:

How much was Genert's presence felt in say Fronela, Seshnela, or Kerofinela? Did it affect Kralorela or Teshnos at all, or are these remnants of Vithela that just happen to lie adjacent to Genert's continent?

Genert was the offspring/lover of Gata. His/their/her daughters were the Land Goddesses. His presence was through his daughters who were the Land. He was the male Earth aspect to their female. As an Earth god, he was of course everywhere and also in his palace. Without his male aspect the land had no fertility, and his fertility was so powerful it was personified as Tada. Tada entertained many Earth Goddesses and the land was rich.

[Joerg]

4 hours ago, David Scott said:

Genert was the offspring/lover of Gata. His/their/her daughters were the Land Goddesses. His presence was through his daughters who were the Land. He was the male Earth aspect to their female. As an Earth god, he was of course everywhere and also in his palace. Without his male aspect the land had no fertility, and his fertility was so powerful it was personified as Tada. Tada entertained many Earth Goddesses and the land was rich.

Ok, let's take Golden Age Ralios, where Flamal resided in Hrelar Amali. How much Genert will be felt?

Let's take Seshnela, the western end of which technically was a piece of Danmalastan. How much did the early Storm Age Pendali feel the influence of Genert? Was Seshna a daughter of Genert, or a manifestation of old Danmalastan's earth, like Britha?

We know that Vingkot married the daughters of Tada, so there was some nod to Genert in greater Kerofinela, although most of the sovereignty role was taken by the mountain goddess and her children rather than the earth goddess.

Tada is applicable to the Garden, which stretches between Kerofinela and the Shan Shan, and further north between the Arcos Valley and the Shan Shan. The Earthwalkers of Peloria may be cognates of Genert, but Turos is a quite different provider of male blessing.

[David Scott]

1 hour ago, Joerg said:

Ok, let's take Golden Age Ralios, where Flamal resided in Hrelar Amali. How much Genert will be felt?

As much as the other gods and goddesses of the Earth. He was a part of the Earth. Likely he had a huge palace in Hrelar Amali as befitted the primary Earth god of the continent. 

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Let's take Seshnela, the western end of which technically was a piece of Danmalastan. How much did the early Storm Age Pendali feel the influence of Genert? Was Seshna a daughter of Genert, or a manifestation of old Danmalastan's earth, like Britha?

Seshna is one of the land Goddesses so a daughter of Gata and Genert. All of the Earth came from Gata. So likely is Britha. Remember, other people's may have different origin stories for something, so britha may have a different origin for them. All mythology is correct, even the conflicting stuff. 

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We know that Vingkot married the daughters of Tada, so there was some nod to Genert in greater Kerofinela, although most of the sovereignty role was taken by the mountain goddess and her children rather than the earth goddess.

Tada is applicable to the Garden, which stretches between Kerofinela and the Shan Shan, and further north between the Arcos Valley and the Shan Shan. The Earthwalkers of Peloria may be cognates of Genert, but Turos is a quite different provider of male blessing.

Genert's fertility is applicable to the whole northern continent up until his death, Tada is the personification of that power, he lived adjacent to Genert's palace, but his power was not limited to his personification. Tada likely had as many palaces as Genert across the land. Genert clearly devolved (had children) his power into other forms and likely so did Tada. Don't confuse the personification with the power. The Earth's mythology is much more extensive and far reaching than what we see in the third age. Much of it has been lost due to its destruction through chaos, so you've got to think bigger.  The Earth's mythology is very straightforward, all of the Earth is gata and her daughters, regardless of what others say. 

Turos's origins are clear on the gods wall. III-1. Gerendetho Lord of the Earth, is clearly one of Gata and Genert's sons. And

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In Darsen and the Western Reaches, III-1 is often identified with Turos

Gethendetho is one of the gods that the Sables on the hungry plateau worship for his connection to Tada and Genert. 

[scott-martin]

4 hours ago, Joerg said:

How much Genert will be felt?

IMG the argument tends to go backward: the boundaries of "Genertela" encompass all lands where they recognize a figure identifiable as "Genert." In some places the identification is weak and we may be dealing with mythological "subcontinents" separated from their origins when the world broke. 

That said, I would be surprised if the archaic Frona, Seshna and Ralia venerated in the animal empires weren't weeping for some lost king or another when the first Malkioni found them. Much of Malkioni history may revolve around trying to pinpoint "the historical Genner" and in their imperial phase they eventually settled on the Wastes as the locale where his saturnian Golden Age played out. This may or may not have come as a surprise to the people living there at the time.

Britha may weep for other reasons.
 

Edited August 22, 2017 by scott-martin
"phrasing"

[scott-martin]

Side note (for all I know it is DEEP) but when "Pela" and her cognates are weeping goddesses then odds are pretty high that the dead king bears a family resemblance to the god we call Yelm. When the goddesses are smiling the Lodril / Turos / whoever is out of jail and in the house. Of course this is probably a taboo topic for conservative Dara Happans but it's not like I was eager to stay on their guest list.

Where is the footnote that singles out Peloria for being largely unexplored mythic territory for Imperial Age explorers, which is one reason the rebirth of the Goddess was possible there? Away from my books.