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New RuneQuest and gods' Runes.


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5 hours ago, kaydet said:

@soltakss

I'm a bit confused. Yu-Kargzant is worshiped by the Pure Horse People / Grazelanders, right? Who worships Yelm the Rider -- the Pentans?

Grazelanders/Pure Horse People are Pentians and all worship Yu-Kargzant.

Some Dara Happans worship Yelm the Rider, especially in the north, where they have a lot of contact with Pent. 

Dara Happans wouldn't be seen dead worshipping Yu-Kargzant, as he is the god of smelly Pentian nomads. Pentian nomads wouldn't be seen dead worshipping Yelm the Rider, as he is the god of the effette Dara Happans. 

Dara Happa was under the rule of the Pentians at least twice - During the God Time/First Age and under Sheng Seleris - So there is some overlap and some cultural resentment.

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5 hours ago, g33k said:

Mouse replacing Duck!

Doesn't Disney have a few Ducks already? Scrooge McDuck and his family would fit in Sartar very well.

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Simon Phipp - Caldmore Chameleon - Wallowing in my elitism since 1982. Many Systems, One Family. Just a fanboy. 

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1 hour ago, Oracle said:

What happens if a worshipper of the Trickster god Hermes tries to recover a spell from his god further north in a temple of the Trickster god Loki?

(I confess, that this example is not truly matching, as Hermes and Loki differ in more than just one aspect, but anyway:)

Hermes and Loki are very different deities, that is like asking what if a Humakti tried to recover a spell from a Zorak Zoran temple, as they are both Death Gods.

This is more like a Calvinist trying to recover a spell from a Catholic Church, in Glasgow. He might be able to do it, but would encounter social and religious opposition.

Simon Phipp - Caldmore Chameleon - Wallowing in my elitism since 1982. Many Systems, One Family. Just a fanboy. 

www.soltakss.com/index.html

Jonstown Compendium author. Find my contributions here

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2 hours ago, styopa said:

If the Yelm cult in Dragon Pass has one set of runes, and the one in Dara Happa has all the same but one is different (because of theistic interpretive differences), what happens when a worshipper from the former tries to recover a spell that is tied to that missing rune at a temple of the latter?

What happens when a Wind Lord tries to recover one of the Magic Weapon Subcult spells at a shrine to Orlanth Thunderous? He could probably do it, but it might be difficult.

I would have each version of Yelm as Aspects, so you could be a member of Yelm the Rider, Yelm the Elder, Yelm the Emperor, Yelm the Sun or Yelm the Arisen. If a member of Yelm the Arisen tried to recover Self-Resurrection from a Yelm the Rider temple, then I would say that was fairly difficult, as Yelm the Rider did not die and return from the Underworld.

Alternatively, being a member of one of the cults might automatically make you a Lay Member of the other cults, so you could attend worship ceremonies but not gain Initiate/Higher level spells.

Simon Phipp - Caldmore Chameleon - Wallowing in my elitism since 1982. Many Systems, One Family. Just a fanboy. 

www.soltakss.com/index.html

Jonstown Compendium author. Find my contributions here

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7 hours ago, soltakss said:

 

Hermes and Loki are very different deities, that is like asking what if a Humakti tried to recover a spell from a Zorak Zoran temple, as they are both Death Gods.

This is more like a Calvinist trying to recover a spell from a Catholic Church, in Glasgow. He might be able to do it, but would encounter social and religious opposition.

True, but what about this one:

What happens if a worshipper of the Trickster god Hermes tries to recover a spell from his god further west in a temple of the Trickster god Merkur?

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8 hours ago, soltakss said:

This is more like a Calvinist trying to recover a spell from a Catholic Church, in Glasgow. He might be able to do it, but would encounter social and religious opposition.

Except that Christian magic doesn't work with rune cults. Saint cults offer limited forms of Divine Intervention rather than reproducible spells, and the church in general offers blessings and curses pronounced by the clergy. There is of course folk magic, blessings (turned into modern day greetings) like "have a good day" or "bless you" or "may god shelter you", and weak to middling curses ("to hell with you!" "may <supernatural demon of your choice> fetch you!"). Whether or not to assign game effects to such utterances is a design decision for any medieval RQ game in a christian setting.

Let's put it the other way around - a Catholic would have a hard time retrieving a saint's blessing from a Calvinist chuch. Calvinists don't receive blessings from saints, but possibly from communal prayer at church. They might use white sorcerous magic for their thrift that comes from guilds - work rites that don't just address material needs. Catholics will have access to these, too. Saints' blessings may be tied to contact reliquiaries, and may have long lasting effects rather than combat-round ones.

26 minutes ago, Oracle said:

What happens if a worshipper of the Trickster god Hermes tries to recover a spell from his god further west in a temple of the Trickster god Merkur?

No idea about the Alternate Earth setting preferences for cult interoperability between Romans and Greeks - probably depends on whether Rome has already conquered the Macedon kingdom or not. Within the Empire, interoperability was high, except for mystery cults.

Germanic tribes apparently had a pragmatic relationship with their gods and would abandon a god if another offered better benefits. I don't think there were any mentions of temples to Germanic deities in Cologne, Trier or other Roman cities in that area. (The Danubian part of the Limes was mostly Celtic tribes.) This indicates that they either used old sites outside of the city, or otherwise participated in the Roman temple ceremonies.

In Glorantha, all trickster shrines are separate cults, and will initiate almost any trickster of sufficiently bad reputation after an initial test/prank.

 

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3 hours ago, Oracle said:

What happens if a worshipper of the Trickster god Hermes tries to recover a spell from his god further west in a temple of the Trickster god Merkur?

Ah, now, that is far more like the Gloranthan example.

I normally say that the Roman deities were originally based on the Greek deities, as the Greek deities were worshipped long before Rome was founded.

So, a Hermes worshipper could recover spells from a Mercury temple and vice versa.

For other deities, it all depends on whether the Romans had done their GodLearnery thing and recognised foreign deities as aspects of their own.

So, a Hermes worshipper travelling through the Celtic lands in the 6th Century BC would not be able to recover magic at a temple of Lugh, but could in the 1st Century BC, as the Romans had already equated Mercury and Lugh by that time.

Also, I would probably say it would depend on which Aspect of the deity was being worshipped. Hermes is a Messenger, Trickster, Psycopomp and Patron of herdsmen, thieves, graves, and heralds. Mercury is a god of financial gain, commerce, eloquence (and thus poetry), messages/communication (including divination), travelers, boundaries, luck, trickery and thieves and a Psycopomp. Lugh is a god of skill, arts, crafts, oaths, truth and the law and is a sun god. There is a fair bit of overlap, so a worshipper of Hermes the Speaker could recover magic at shrines to Mercury and Lugh, but might struggle at a shrine to Lugh the Sun.

Don't forget that Great Temples would probably include all the Aspects of a deity, but Shrines might concentrate on a single Aspect.

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Simon Phipp - Caldmore Chameleon - Wallowing in my elitism since 1982. Many Systems, One Family. Just a fanboy. 

www.soltakss.com/index.html

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A big difference is that in RW, the men made the gods and adapted them to their convenience/influences/conquests/culture/whatever. Syncretism is common, especially with polytheistic religions which easily adopted gods from other pantheons. In Glorantha, as well as in most of the fantasy worlds, the gods exist on their own and may not be so flexible! Comparing both does therefore not make 100% sense. Except if in Glorantha, the Mortals shape the gods as well (question for the Glorantha subforum).

At a shrine dedicated to one aspect, you are still in contact with the god, so why shouldn't you be able to contact his other aspects ? The other attendants may not be able to because of their particular ties with the deity, but you may. Or does a shrine create a particular channel to the god which only initiates to this channel can follow? But this can be left to the Referee (:P), indeed.

 

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I also feel one needs to look at how do shrines and temples communicate with each other. Even within a cult there may be local politics or personalities to content with. Just because you say your are a paid up member of cult A in X town, would cult A in Y town honour that even if proved to be true. Sure you may get bed and board, but access to temple wealth may not be so easy. I imagine some divinities are better than others at networking support (Issaries, Seven Mothers) but some would be very parochial (Orlanth, Lhankor Mhy).

Also who's to say that even aspects of the same god communicate, or even are the same god (don't believe what the Learners have told us). Sure in Glorantha the gods really do exist and reward worship with magic, but it's still people (or what ever) that act as gate keepers. 

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