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David Scott

RuneQuest Glorantha Gen Con 50 Preview edition

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Paraphrasing @Jeff - this thread is about the RuneQuest Glorantha Gen Con 50 Preview edition...

59a178a9aa7f3_RQPreview.jpg.57383b4be4458090e8b5ebe39582546f.jpg

Moving this over from https://basicroleplaying.org/topic/6661-runequest-rules-at-gen-con/ so we don't have to wade through unrelated stuff:

@Atgxtg said and was seconded by @GamingGlen and @styopa

9 hours ago, Atgxtg said:

To those who were fortunate enough to accure a copy, how does character generation work? Is is like RQ2, EQ3, BRP? Judging from some of the posts it seems a little Pendragonish with the background stuff, but does any of this lifepath stuff actually affect game stats and mechanics, or are they just there to flesh out the character for roleplaying.

Here are the stages of character generation:

Quote
  • Step 1: Homeland. Choose your adventurer’s Homeland.
  • Step 2: Family History. Develop the family history for your adventurer, and their own history prior to their life of adventure.
  • Step 3: Rune Affinities. Choose your adventurer’s Runes. These quantify your adventurer’s connection to specific Runes and drive personality and social impulses.
  • Step 4: Characteristics. Determine characteristics and secondary attributes.
  • Step 5: Occupation. Choose your adventurer’s occupation.
  • Step 6: Cult. Choose your adventurer’s cult.
  • Step 7: Personal Skill Bonuses. Allocate personal skill bonuses.
  • Step 8: Other Information. Give your adventurer a name and determine other information needed, such as gender, equipment, family heirloom, etc. 

Homeland gives you your Religion e.g. Orlanth Pantheon. Suggested Occupations e.g. Hunter. Priest and common cults e.g. Storm Bull, Seven Mothers. Aslo starting Passions.

Family history is optional and there's also a shorter version. If you skip it you get to automatically add up to three additional Passions, a boost to a passion of your choice and a small boost to another. Remember that the Pendragon system has its roots in Greg's attempts to write Glorantha the Game.

Rune Affinities - pick your runes and get bonuses to them for your homeland.

Characteristics - You get mods to these based on your Homeland and runes. It's the usual 3D6 for STR, DEX, CON, POW, and CHA, and 2D6+6 for SIZ and INT. There's advice on altering this using your own system. Secondary characteristics are derived as before Damage Modifier, healing rate, magic points, strike rank etc from familiar tables. Skills category modifiers, the same with RQ2 style 5% steps (skills are NOT in 5% steps you can have a skill of 62%). Homeland gives base %.

Occupations - Give you your Homelands, Standard of Living, Base Income, Cults, Favored Passions, Ransom, Equipment including weapons were appropriate.

Cult - gives you Cult runes, Cult Starting Skills, Special Rune Magic, Cult Spirit Magic, Favored Passions, appropriate notes  and Associated Cults. 

Personal Skill Bonuses - lets you personalise your character e.g. +25% to any four skills and +10% to five more skills. 

Other Information - as above, you can get more reputation from Heirlooms etc. And there's an addition experience section.

Edited by David Scott
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Thanks, and now...more questions!:)

 

1) You said characteristics are modified for Homeland and Runes. Can you give some examples? What would somebody from, say, Dragon Pass, get for mods? For instance, how would a Humakti differer from a follower off Orlanth Adventurous (different runes) as far as characteristics go?

2) Are the category modifiers exactly the same as RQ2, or have they been tweaked?

3) How are Hit Points calculated?

4) Does Occupation affect skills at all? 

5) If Occupation gives you your Homelands, how do you determine Homeland as the first step? 

6) Is there anything in the book to cover more experienced characters, like there was in RQ2 and RQ3?

7) How big is the book in terms of page count and material? Say in comparison to other editions of RQ.

 

8) Anybody know when the full game is going to be available to the rest of us? 

 

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26 minutes ago, David Scott said:

 

Characteristics - You get mods to these based on your Homeland and runes. It's the usual 3D6 for STR, DEX, CON, POW, and CHA, and 2D6+6 for SIZ and INT. There's advice on altering this using your own system. Secondary characteristics are derived as before Damage Modifier, healing rate, magic points, strike rank etc from familiar tables. Skills category modifiers, the same with RQ2 style 5% steps (skills are NOT in 5% steps you can have a skill of 62%). Homeland gives base %.

 

 

I was wondering how the pregenerated PCs in the QS ended up with such high INTs: 15/16/15/20/19/18 - so do some runes/cultures give +2 to INT?

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1 hour ago, Atgxtg said:

8) Anybody know when the full game is going to be available to the rest of us? 

Pretty sure it was mentioned somewhere that the rules PDF will come out in Nov, the book(s) in Dec.

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4 hours ago, Atgxtg said:

1) You said characteristics are modified for Homeland and Runes. Can you give some examples? What would somebody from, say, Dragon Pass, get for mods? For instance, how would a Humakti differer from a follower off Orlanth Adventurous (different runes) as far as characteristics go?

 

It's not your cult Runes that give you the characteristic modifiers, it's your personal Runes. Every adventurer has 3 to 4 personal Runes expressed as %ages -- just as if they were skills. The two strongest Runes give you characteristic modifiers.

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3 hours ago, styopa said:

Pretty sure it was mentioned somewhere that the rules PDF will come out in Nov, the book(s) in Dec.

Gloanthan Thanksgiving?

 

11 minutes ago, GianniVacca said:

It's not your cult Runes that give you the characteristic modifiers, it's your personal Runes. Every adventurer has 3 to 4 personal Runes expressed as %ages -- just as if they were skills. The two strongest Runes give you characteristic modifiers.

Such as? And does the % values matter as far as the characteristic mods go? Does somebody with a Life Rune Affinity get a CON bonus? if he masters that affinity to 90% does he get a bigger CON bonus? What does the Mastery rune give? Do personal runes add to anything other than characteristics? Is there a Gloranthan equivalent to Pendragon's Religious bonus ? And does having high scores in a cult's runes actually mean anything in the way the character stands and functions in the cult? 

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2 hours ago, GianniVacca said:

It's not your cult Runes that give you the characteristic modifiers, it's your personal Runes. Every adventurer has 3 to 4 personal Runes expressed as %ages -- just as if they were skills. The two strongest Runes give you characteristic modifiers.

And to further clarify, it's your elemental runes.

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7 hours ago, Atgxtg said:

2) Are the category modifiers exactly the same as RQ2, or have they been tweaked?

3) How are Hit Points calculated?

I haven't compared the versions, nor am I going to. That's just too much work (nor does it interest me).

Edited by David Scott

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7 hours ago, d(sqrt(-1)) said:

I was wondering how the pregenerated PCs in the QS ended up with such high INTs: 15/16/15/20/19/18 - so do some runes/cultures give +2 to INT?

Yes your highest two elemental runes give you a plus 1 and plus two respectively. INT is 2D6+6 so an average of 13. The pregens might were likely for playability in the scenario rather than examples of vanilla character generation.

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7 hours ago, Atgxtg said:

4) Does Occupation affect skills at all?

gives adds to occupation skills

7 hours ago, Atgxtg said:

5) If Occupation gives you your Homelands, how do you determine Homeland as the first step? 

It's a cross check, mirroring homeland info. Useful for catching mistakes.

7 hours ago, Atgxtg said:

6) Is there anything in the book to cover more experienced characters, like there was in RQ2 and RQ3?

See section 8 commentary

8 hours ago, David Scott said:

And there's an addition experience section.

 

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2 hours ago, Atgxtg said:

Such as? And does the % values matter as far as the characteristic mods go? Does somebody with a Life Rune Affinity get a CON bonus? if he masters that affinity to 90% does he get a bigger CON bonus?

No

2 hours ago, Atgxtg said:

What does the Mastery rune give?

Nothing, only elemental runes give a bonus

2 hours ago, Atgxtg said:

Do personal runes add to anything other than characteristics?

Yes for augmenting rolls, in game not chargen

2 hours ago, Atgxtg said:

s there a Gloranthan equivalent to Pendragon's Religious bonus ?

No. It's a different world mindset.

2 hours ago, Atgxtg said:

And does having high scores in a cult's runes actually mean anything in the way the character stands and functions in the cult? 

Yes. At high levels they have to act in accordance with their runes and passions

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2 hours ago, David Scott said:
5 hours ago, Atgxtg said:

s there a Gloranthan equivalent to Pendragon's Religious bonus ?

No. It's a different world mindset.

But there is the Devotion(deity) passion which can be used to augment or inspire a character.

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@David Scott, thanks for the breakdown of character creation and subsequent clarifications. I still hope against all hope that the RQ2 skill modifiers won't be used as is (I am sure easily house ruled to something better) but everything else looks very very promising. Thanks again.

Edited by DreadDomain
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Thanks for the low-down David, it's greatly appreciated, given our anticipation for RQG

Edited by Mankcam

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@GamingGlen, @styopa and @Joerg were asking / talking about the "new" sorcery.

Sorcery is very straight forward and is based around the Xeotam dialogues (as HQG's sorcery is). So it uses the techniques of:

Command, Combine, Separate, Summon, Dismiss, and Tap.

http://www.glorantha.com/for-understanding-the-malkioni-approach-to-sorcery-runes-and-gods-the-xeotam-dialogues-written-by/

---

A sorcerer starts by mastering one Rune and one technique. Minimum INT is 13 to understand one Rune and one technique. More INT lets you master more.

Mastering further Runes and techniques is a test and costs a point of POW for each one. You have either mastered a rune or technique or not, These aren't skills.

You manipulate spells using free INT (INT minus spirit magic points and spells known in memory) and Intensity, Strength, Range and Duration - there's a table for each. 

Spells MP cost  = runes + techniques + each point of manipulation above 1 plus what ever extra you want.

---

Spells are made up from Runes and Techniques Used, Minimum Magic Points, Casting Range, Type, Duration, Spell Description and other notes. 

Each sorcery spell is a skill. You can increase casting chance using Meditation or Ritual practices or of course augmenting. 

 

 

 

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15 hours ago, David Scott said:

I haven't compared the versions, nor am I going to. That's just too much work (nor does it interest me).

Well then no thank you. I wasn't aware that the formula for hit points was all that much work. 

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7 minutes ago, Atgxtg said:

Well then no thank you. I wasn't aware that the formula for hit points was all that much work. 

It's a table, I'm not going to type out the table.

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On 26/08/2017 at 3:21 PM, Atgxtg said:

2) Are the category modifiers exactly the same as RQ2, or have they been tweaked?

3) How are Hit Points calculated?

 

2) Almost identical to RQ2.

3) Identical to RQ2.

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2 hours ago, David Scott said:

It's a table, I'm not going to type out the table.

You shouldn't have needed to in order to answer the question. 

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3 hours ago, GianniVacca said:

2) Almost identical to RQ2.

3) Identical to RQ2.

Urgh.

3 hours ago, GianniVacca said:

2) Almost identical to RQ2.

3) Identical to RQ2.

Double-urgh.

RQ3 did Hit Points a lot simpler. RQ2 was very complex when calculating Hit Points.

There are many backwards steps when going from RQ3 to RQ2, in my opinion.

 

 

 

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Just now, soltakss said:

 

Urgh.

Double-urgh.

RQ3 did Hit Points a lot simpler. RQ2 was very complex when calculating Hit Points.

There are many backwards steps when going from RQ3 to RQ2, in my opinion.

 

 

 

The simpler point calculation of RQ3 means that large creatures have absurd amounts of hit points - game breaking IMO. So frex, Bigclub the Giant had 28 hit points in RQ2. He was extremely tough, but a few good (lucky) blows could take him down. Bigclub in RQ3 had 63 (!) hit points, making him a TPK machine. Same problem happens with any larger-than-great troll creature (dinosaurs, dream dragons, etc.). The calculation of hit points in RQ3 may be quicker (but then again, how often are you calculating hit points on the fly), but came at a cost that creatures with a SIZ above 30 became progressively unkillable. 

Now you might say that is more "realistic" (although in truth, "realism" breaks down the moment you have giants, giant beetles, etc.), but it is contrary to Greg's stories, and thus contrary to the genre. I'd rather players take a few seconds longer to calculate their hit points during character generation, than introduce a game-breaking mechanism because it is "easier". 

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3 hours ago, Jeff said:

The simpler point calculation of RQ3 means that large creatures have absurd amounts of hit points - game breaking IMO. So frex, Bigclub the Giant had 28 hit points in RQ2. He was extremely tough, but a few good (lucky) blows could take him down. Bigclub in RQ3 had 63 (!) hit points, making him a TPK machine. Same problem happens with any larger-than-great troll creature (dinosaurs, dream dragons, etc.). The calculation of hit points in RQ3 may be quicker (but then again, how often are you calculating hit points on the fly), but came at a cost that creatures with a SIZ above 30 became progressively unkillable. 

Now you might say that is more "realistic" (although in truth, "realism" breaks down the moment you have giants, giant beetles, etc.), but it is contrary to Greg's stories, and thus contrary to the genre. I'd rather players take a few seconds longer to calculate their hit points during character generation, than introduce a game-breaking mechanism because it is "easier". 

Easier doesn't mean it's only important 'on the fly'.  It means it's easier.  So if I'm populating an adventure with 50 different humanoid creatures of varying size/toughness, knowing their arms are all 0.25 their hp and legs, abdomen, head are 0.33 their hp, etc is going to make that (let's be honest) painful monster-generation process a *tiny* bit simpler.  That's a bad goal?

RQ2 resulted in too few body HP, and too many limb HP on large creatures.  I don't believe it's absurd to think that a 7 ton giant should be a TPK machine to people dumb enough to melee him.

RQ2: 28 hp total, chest 11, arms 9, everything else 10.

RQ3 (IIRC): 42 hp, chest 17, arms 10-11, everything else 14.

Bigclub is THREE STORIES TALL (9m)  He's SIZ 69.  On a human proportions (yes, setting aside physics) he's 15,000 lbs.  Firstly, the idea that he's got body hp (28) double that of a decent adventurer is...well, sorry it's silly.  The only reason he's tough in SPH is because he (conveniently) has +10 AP skin.  Without it?  A single good special arrowshot to the head kills him.   

Secondly, (and more importantly) because the RQ2 location hp mechanics go up linearly after a point, the damage proportions between limbs/core get all whacky making limbs intuitively too tough relatively.  For a normal 10-12hp human, chest is 5, legs/abd are 80% of that (4), and arms are 60%.  For a Bigclub, his legs are 90%, arms are 80%...and he's not even that big of a giant.  But what that does mean in RQ2 he can be nearly dead from one completely-mangled limb, where in RQ3 he'd be at about half...like a human.

And sorry, the "well there are magic dragons so why bother about realism?" response is ...weak.  Why do we have bigger weapons do more damage than smaller?  Why is a STR 18 toon able to lift more than a STR 6?  Why is there gravity at all since characters can fly?  

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6 hours ago, Jeff said:

The simpler point calculation of RQ3 means that large creatures have absurd amounts of hit points - game breaking IMO.

IMO I disagree. While I've never personally tried to hack up an elephant, I'm confident that it's not all that easy. I think that RQ3 hit points are more sensible that RQ2 hit points for multiple reasons, including the absurdly high db that go with large SIZ. 

6 hours ago, Jeff said:

Now you might say that is more "realistic" (although in truth, "realism" breaks down the moment you have giants, giant beetles, etc.), but it is contrary to Greg's stories, and thus contrary to the genre. I'd rather players take a few seconds longer to calculate their hit points during character generation, than introduce a game-breaking mechanism because it is "easier". 

It's not a game breaking mechanism. RQ3 works just fine mechanically. Now RQ2 hit points might match up better with Greg's stories, but then so does HeroQuest. 

On the other hand RQ2 attack bonuses were a game breaker. Big Club the giant probably has a STR of 70 sih, and an Attack Bonus of around +60%, making him at expert at using any weapon he picks up. Sadly, I think the new RQ's push back to the game's roots is going to mean the loss of a lot of good ideas that came with RQ3, and the incorporation of some good RQ3 ideas out of context (such as 2d6+6 SIZ). 

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I just wish there was some consistency with the current BRP rule sets, I think it makes sense that some rule mechanics could have been similar to CoC 7E; that way my players only have to learn one core system.

On the other hand, I can see the benefits of RQG having  back compatbility with the RQ2 stat block, so that the RQ2 reprints dont go to waste.

 

Edited by Mankcam

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