Guide to Glorantha Group Read Week 11 - Holy Country

[David Scott]

Index - https://basicroleplaying.org/topic/6558-guide-to-glorantha-group-read-index/

• Please keep your discussions to the current section - it's easy to wander off.
• Please keep your discussions on the current section in this thread.
• Use the Deep discussion thread for related but off topic speculations and investigations.
• Please only add to this if you've read the section. I'm trying to avoid derailments by non-participants.
• If you are having difficulty finding the threads - they are all tagged: guide to glorantha group read, click the tag and the treads will all appear:
• https://basicroleplaying.org/tags/guide to glorantha group read/

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• Please don't forget to start reading the next section, Kralorela for week 12. From page 260 up to and including page 291. You've got until Monday 11th September.
• Any errors in the next section, please put in the week 12 errors: https://basicroleplaying.org/topic/6720-guide-to-glorantha-group-read-week-12-errors/

This week we started our foray into Holy Country. The threads this week are divided in to Caladraland, Esrolia, Shadow Plateau, Heortland and God Forgot.

The links to the relevant threads are below:

https://basicroleplaying.org/topic/6723-guide-to-glorantha-group-read-week-11-caladraland/

https://basicroleplaying.org/topic/6724-guide-to-glorantha-group-read-week-11-esrolia/

https://basicroleplaying.org/topic/6725-guide-to-glorantha-group-read-week-11-shadow-plateau/

https://basicroleplaying.org/topic/6726-guide-to-glorantha-group-read-week-11-heortland/

https://basicroleplaying.org/topic/6727-guide-to-glorantha-group-read-week-11-god-forgot/

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https://basicroleplaying.org/topic/6722-guide-to-glorantha-group-read-week-11-deep-discussion/

https://basicroleplaying.org/topic/6693-guide-to-glorantha-group-read-week-11-errors/

Edited September 4, 2017 by David Scott

[metcalph]

 

Quote

During this time,
the God-King resisted several invasions,
and proved the immense power of his land.
Belintar insisted upon strict neutrality in all
things. Tarsh agreed, and so the Holy Country
became a tacit ally p239

I would like to have known more about these invasions but the real question is why is "neutrality" so important to Belintar?  It's not as if there was anybody else who could impose sanctions upon him for infringing the supposed neutral status of the Holy Country.

Quote

However, after a fleet was
sunk by the Kralori in 1588, Belintar decreed
that his navy would conquer no more. p239

This suggests that his navy had attempted to annex Handra and Melib.  The real thing I'm not getting here is that after a setback in Kralorela, he's called off the entire enterprise.  That's not something that Sheng Seleris, the Red Emperor, the God Learners or the EWF would ever contemplate.  So what is Belintar's thinking here?  And an example of a dog that did not bark, apart froma few battles against the Volsaxi, there is a complete lack of any military campaigns into Dragon Pass or Maniria, something that would have interested an immortal God-King at least once.

Quote

At
about the same time, the Ditali tribe from
the west, urged on by Lunar agitators, began
raiding and plundering the Holy Country. p239

The obscure Lunar agitators among the Ditali.  The real question is how the Lunars managed to reach the Ditali considering that the approaches to Maniria are blocked by the Holy Country and that going incognito in the Holy Country seems a tad far-fetched (it has happened with the assassins against the House of Sartar) and more importantly somewhat modern.

p242 - the Master of Battle.  One thing that strikes me in the list of Governors in History of the Heortling Peoples is that the Governors seem to be the main military commanders for the Holy Country in Heortland whereas according to this, there should at least be a Duke.  Alsothe Holy Couyntry had a massive army but seems to do very little with it (other than getting slaughtered by Greymane and his thugs).

[7Tigers]

p 249: I like that Axe Hall, the Babeestor Gorite Headquarters, is in the middle of Shadow Plateau troll territory:
 

Quote

"Babeestor Gor claimed this place as her own. No one argued. No one else goes there."

[jajagappa]

One of the two chapters that I've read most extensively, particularly history, Esrolia, and Belintar entries as I set out to develop Nochet.  A lot familiar too from the old Holy Country article in RQ Companion and the histories in the original Trollpak.

So, for this read, it was more on the order of "what haven't I noticed before?" and "what do I find I come back to again?"

Interesting bit right in the opening summary: "Many nations exist in harmony in this land, drawing on the ancient knowledge of the west, the east, and the north, and from far beneath the earth."  Why interesting?  Well, nothing noted from the south! And a bit surprising to draw on the east here, but it does suggest something of a crossroads.

The Lightbringers Return from the Underworld: I enjoy the in-world art.  I do wonder who the King of Men is?  An abstract figure?  A Silver Age hero?  The way the Theya/Dawn Rune is abstracted is very suggestive of how Gloranthans may incorporate runes into everyday usage without being obvious.  The presence of both the Sun Stallion and the Sun Emperor is somewhat unexpected, but I like that.  Only the King of Men and Issaries have shoes. 

The Devastation of the Vent:  elsewhere there is reference to the 7 tsunamis that washed across Esrolia.  Here we have a "ten-foot-tall wave of earth passed through Esrolia, knocking down almost everything, followed by a smaller ripple."  Like someone snapped the carpet of earth.  One of the working premises in building Nochet was that there was very little left either standing or unburied by debris at this point.  But, there was lots of rubble, stone, and rock available for subsequent building.  And folk continue to dig this stuff out to use in the great building boom of the post-Dormal era.  Some areas of Nochet (the Dark Warrens) are actually still largely buried - but the Queens have granted this area to the trolls, and they have dug through the ancient foundations to make their homes underground.  Above, small herds of sheep or other beasts wander about by day.  And by night, hungry trollkin eat the growth of weeds and shrubs.  Across the river, old Forenes remains buried.

The Ascension of Belintar: watching over all, the Eye that Pierces the Veils.  Seems like something that should show up in some Holy Country heroquest.  Then Yelm holds the Brighteye Shield.  Also, if you look at the set of figures on our left (Belintar's right), you discover that there are 7 figures, not 6 - a dragonewt has photobombed the picture! 

Lunar Advancement: several major raids by the Feathered Horse Queen, particularly in 1620.  Reminds you that there is an interesting conflict between leaders of Earth cults (some ancient conflict between Ketha and Kero Fin there?).

Inhabitants: its a good place to find all the major Elder Races.  This may be one of the best regions for mixed-race adventuring parties.

Warlords of Porthomeka: after RQ Companion came out, I tried putting together some material set here and in nearby Rhigos.  Never really developed that though.  Maybe one of these days (when I'm not working on some other project!).

 

 

[Joerg]

28 minutes ago, jajagappa said:

Interesting bit right in the opening summary: "Many nations exist in harmony in this land, drawing on the ancient knowledge of the west, the east, and the north, and from far beneath the earth."  Why interesting?  Well, nothing noted from the south! And a bit surprising to draw on the east here, but it does suggest something of a crossroads.

Not that surprising if you think of the Zaranistangi skin coloration, and the recent colonization of the Zola Fel mouth when Belintar swam ashore.

There has been an astonishing lack of speculation about Belintar's origin.

28 minutes ago, jajagappa said:

The Lightbringers Return from the Underworld: I enjoy the in-world art.  I do wonder who the King of Men is?  An abstract figure?  A Silver Age hero?  The way the Theya/Dawn Rune is abstracted is very suggestive of how Gloranthans may incorporate runes into everyday usage without being obvious.  The presence of both the Sun Stallion and the Sun Emperor is somewhat unexpected, but I like that.  Only the King of Men and Issaries have shoes. 

Is there any problem with having both Elmal and Harono in a single depiction?

 

28 minutes ago, jajagappa said:

Across the river, old Forenes remains buried.

Buried, or just collapsed?

28 minutes ago, jajagappa said:

Lunar Advancement: several major raids by the Feathered Horse Queen, particularly in 1620. 

I wonder whether the FHQ is the driving force behind  those raids, or whether it is just that she doesn't stop the raiders?

28 minutes ago, jajagappa said:

Reminds you that there is an interesting conflict between leaders of Earth cults (some ancient conflict between Ketha and Kero Fin there?).

Is the FHQ just another party in the Old/Red/Warm Earth struggle?

28 minutes ago, jajagappa said:

Inhabitants: its a good place to find all the major Elder Races.  This may be one of the best regions for mixed-race adventuring parties.

Dwarves aren't permanent inhabitants of Kethaela proper, unless there is an active guard of iron mostali left at Locsil. Gemborg is almost as far away from Kethaela as Dwarf Mine.

 

 

[jajagappa]

22 minutes ago, Joerg said:

Is there any problem with having both Elmal and Harono in a single depiction?

Not at all!  I enjoyed seeing the combination.

 

22 minutes ago, Joerg said:

There has been an astonishing lack of speculation about Belintar's origin.

True. 

24 minutes ago, Joerg said:

Buried, or just collapsed?

Well, both.  Makes for good 'dungeon' crawls.  Holes open up in the ground after heavy rains, etc. revealing access into 2nd Age homes and palaces.  Enter at the upper level.  What's been lurking within?

26 minutes ago, Joerg said:

I wonder whether the FHQ is the driving force behind  those raids, or whether it is just that she doesn't stop the raiders?

This is the Single Matron Woman period, I believe, and she seems particularly intent on warfare and raiding.  She may well be instrumental in fomenting Greymane's raids, too.  She may well be pushing at Hendira's control over Ernalda, at least until the Great Winter.  Or, perhaps she and Hendira are ostensibly working together to weaken the Old Earth Alliance.

28 minutes ago, Joerg said:

Is the FHQ just another party in the Old/Red/Warm Earth struggle?

Likely a factor. 

29 minutes ago, Joerg said:

Dwarves aren't permanent inhabitants of Kethaela proper, unless there is an active guard of iron mostali left at Locsil. Gemborg is almost as far away from Kethaela as Dwarf Mine.

True, though there may well be the possibility that they are seeking to control the Vent too.

[metcalph]

2 hours ago, Joerg said:

Dwarves aren't permanent inhabitants of Kethaela proper, unless there is an active guard of iron mostali left at Locsil. Gemborg is almost as far away from Kethaela as Dwarf Mine.

Gemborg lies within the boundaries of Caladraland (Guide p243)  and is about 140 miles from the City of Wonders.  Dwarf Mine lies about 190 miles away.