Stats for NPCS: Starbrow, Fazzur, Argrath, etc

[PhilHibbs]

3 minutes ago, Joerg said:

If player characters bring one-use special magics into the fray (e.g. through Spell-Trading), will they be able to use their normal, highly developed rune ratings, or will they possibly have to use under-developed runes to activate the magic?

Spell Trading uses the Rune rating of the character that you traded the spell from. Matrixes use POWx5. Special items might have their own Rune rating. If all else fails, bring a Wyter with you.

Don't forget Wyters. They're a great resource, either as a GM or a player.

[The God Learner]

There were stats for the Crimson Bat in Cults of Terror. I seem to recall its ticks were problematic enough. There is also the Cradle scenario, Dorastor (with Ralzakark stats), and giants and such in Griffin Mountain. (Though only 10-15m specimens, not 150m tall Gonn Orta.)

My impression is that attempts at Super-Runequest haven't really been successful and there will be no Deities & Demigods for Glorantha, but I would nevertheless like a way to play through, say, the deeds of the Red Goddess. (No pressure, Jeff.) 

Practically speaking, @soltakss has some rousing examples of playing at a hero/superhero/demigod level. 

One example here: 

 

Another at his site re: Dorastor: http://www.soltakss.com/indexplaces.html#Dorastor

 

 

[RHW]

AVERT YOUR EYES! THIS IS TERRIBLE. NO ONE NEEDS TO SEE THIS.

Stats for Bean Pot from my house campaign (converted from house rules):

Walks-with-Shadows AKA “Bean Pot Aelwrin”                                        

Peasant and Camp Slave, Pent                                              

Human Male, 34

Moonsword of Yanafal Tarnils

STR:    28                                                                                Spells known: 

CON:   28                                                                                Bladesharp 10

SIZ:     11                                                                                Heal 6

INT:    16                                                                                Befuddle

POW:  28                                                                                Demoralize                            

DEX:   35                                                                               

CHR:   22

HP:      19+31 = 60

MP:     28 + 25 Allied Spirit

MP Storage and Spirits: 300

Move: 9

Base SR: 2

MELEE ATTACK:     +1d6 Damage

RH Moonsword:                                 270%              SR 4                4d6+1d6+8

            w/ Bladesharp                        320%                                       4d6+1d6+18   

            w/ Lunge                                 200%                                       4d6+1d6+17

            w/ BS + Lunge                        250%                                       4d6+1d6+27               

            w/ Truescimitar                                                                      8d6+1d6+8     

Lh Cleaver:                                         200%               SR 5                1d6+1+1d6                             

         w/ Bladesharp                         250%                                       1d6+1d6+11           

Kick:                                                   125%               SR 6                1d6+1d6

            w/ IH 8                                    165%                                       1d6+1d6+8     

Lunge:                                                 200%              

 

RANGED ATTACK: +13                   RANGED DAMAGE:            +9       

RH Returning Iron Cleaver:               175%               SR 1/5/9          1d6+1+1d3

LH Returning Iron Cleaver:               140%               SR 1/5/9          1d6+1+1d3

           

HIT LOCATIONS: 

Missile            Melee              Location          Armor             HP

01-03               01-04               R Leg              12+16+10        20

04-06               05-08               L Leg              12+16+10        20

07-10               09-11               Adm                12+16+10        20

11-15               12                    Chest               12+16+10        24

16-17               13-15               R Arm             12+16+10        15

18-19               16-18               L Arm             12+16+10        15

20                    19-20               Head                18*+16+10      20

Total Hits                                60                   

AP includes PermaShield 8 and 10 pt skin

Spirit Armor Enchant 10

NOTE:  Bean Pot usually only wears his Leg and Head armor when walking around.            

PASSIONS: Chip on Shoulder: 150%, Distrust Authority: 90%, Love Jar-eel 250%, Alcoholic: 75%

RUNES: Moon: 150%, Death: 90%, Fire: 90%, Mastery: 90%, Truth: 75%

SKILLS:

AGILITY: Balance: 150%, Boat: 50%, Climb: 150%, Dodge 250%, Jump: 150%, Ride: 230%, Swim: 100%   

COMMUNICATION: Fast Talk: 85%, Orate: 235%, Sing: 60%, Speak New Pelorian: 100%, Speak Pentish 85%, Speak Trade 60%, Speak Sartarite: 35%         

MANIPULATION: Conceal:  150%, Cook: 300%, Devise: 100%, Sleight: 100%

KNOWLEDGE: Animal Lore: 85%, Evaluate: 50%, Human Lore: 130%, Myth (7M): 100%, R/W New Pelorian: 50%, Battle: 200%, Tactics: 180%

PERCEPTION: Listen: 130%, Scan: 240%, Search: 110%. Track: 150%

STEALTH: Hide: 210%, Sneak: 210%

MAGIC: Ceremony: 100%, Enchant: 100%, Summon: 85%                      

NOTES:  Bean Pot is immune to all fear and negative morale effects.  He is also immune to disease. That said, he is often drunk. If not in the company of Jar-eel, roll against his Alcoholic once a day and apply the “bonus” as a penalty to all DEX and CHR based skills. He is protected by his own personal wyter.  He leads an elite unit of 50 highly skilled YT initiates (main skills at 90%, full plate) and has several Rune Levels who are always with him on quests or in combat, including two Rune Level healers. Lunar sorcerers maintain Cast Back 20 on him at all times.

RUNE MAGIC:         

SEVEN MOTHERS (22)

Shield, Dismiss Small Shade, Dismiss Small Salamander, Dismiss Small Undine, Dismiss Small Gnome, Madness, Mindblast, Summon Small Lune, Summon Medium Lune, Summon Large Lune

YANAFAL TARNILS: (22)

Truesword, Sword Trance, Fear, Charge of the Ram, Stand Against Many, Morale, Detect Truth, Extension, Shield,

CONQUERING DAUGHTER (22-12 = 10)

Shield, Repair Road, Summon Large Gnome, Dismiss Large Gnome, Gnome to Gargoyle, Speed Army, Glowspot, Travel Road, Secure Road

MOONSON CULT (22)

Command Citizen, Rally Soldiers, Worship Emperor, Bless Citizen, Charisma, Lie, Calm Mob, Enrage Mob, Command Lune, Awe Chaos Thing, Understand Bureaucrat, Confound Bureaucrat, Madness, Mindblast

NOTE: Maintains Extension 4 and Shield 8 at all times. Casts Glowspot (3) and Extension 2 every day when outside the Glowline, in which case he has only 5 points of Conquering Daughter Rune Magic available.

ALLIED SPIRIT:

Moonlover

INT 15, POW 25, CHR 20

Spirit Screen 10

Fireblade (4)

Disrupt

RUNE MAGIC:

SEVEN MOTHERS (20)

Truesword, Regrow Limb, Summon Lune, Summon Shade, Summon Salamander, Summon Undine, Summon Gnome, Ban, Binding Enchantment, Matrix Creation, Mindblast, Madness

POSSESSIONS:

Moonsword:  A personal gift from the Emperor, the Moonsword does damage subject to the cycles of the moon.  Black: 1d6+2, Crescent 2d6+4, Half 3d6+6, Full 4d6+8.  It’s pluses to hit are Black: +5%, Cres +10%, Half +15%, Full +20%.  Stats assume a full moon or that Bean Pot has cast Glowspot.  This damage can be doubled with Truesword.

Bean Pots Kettle:  An enchanted bronze kettle converted into a helmet.  Enchanted to 18AP.   Contains many magic spirits.  Assume Bean Pot knows all Spirit Magic spells at 8 and has 300 stored MP from Spirits and Matrixes.

Bean Pot’s Cleavers:  Both of Bean Pot’s Iron Cleavers have been enchanted to return to him immediately when thrown.

[Austin]

50 minutes ago, RHW said:

Stats for Bean Pot from my house campaign (converted from house rules):

What was your process when coming up with these stats? I can very much see my players wanting to go up against notable named characters of the Hero Wars metaplot someday... 

[Shiningbrow]

54 minutes ago, Crel said:

What was your process when coming up with these stats? I can very much see my players wanting to go up against notable named characters of the Hero Wars metaplot someday... 

I, too, would like to know how all of this was created.

I dread the amount of 'house rules' needed though... There are a number of items which are basically not possible using the basic RQG ruleset.

[PhilHibbs]

1 hour ago, Shiningbrow said:

I dread the amount of 'house rules' needed though... There are a number of items which are basically not possible using the basic RQG ruleset.

There's a big difference between "not possible" and "not covered". None of those items are ususable due to missing rules, and nor do they break any hard game rules. You could say the same about the NPCs in the Gamemaster Adventures book - Black Spear, Asborn Thriceborn's self-resurrection power, King Vererenenos's shield, spear, and javelin etc.

What we need - and I hope we will get in the Gamemaster Guide - is some guidelines or suggestions for creating and describing such items, either through "mundane" means like the Windberry Staffs or as Heroquest rewards.

[Joerg]

The way to get there by mechanisms already in the rules would be through divine gifts or their equivalent as heroquest rewards. Why not include an expanded rune point pool into those rewards?

As the sidekick of Jar-eel, Beatpot has seen ten years of intense heroquesting, including the build-up for killing Belintar. Some of such values may be heroquest rewards, others may  be the result of successful heroquest challenges - those quite likely already starting during his time as a rebel leader.

In addition, he has access to Humakti-style gifts through Yanafal. And there is a possibility of Chaos Gifts, too - in case of doubt gained through Heroquest challenges, thus pre-selected from the original giftees.

I wouldn't have increased the physical stats to that level (unless these are ongoing sorcerous boosts in addition to permanent increases), and his armor rating looks better than Siegfried or (post-Homeric, Lethe-dunked) Achilles. 10 point skin?

 

When I see stats like that, I see a storm of magically enhanced missiles swarming in, with a 10-15% chance of landing a critical for each. Halved if a few meat shields engage him to prevent him from attacking the missileers.

 

With a perma-Shield 8 (can that be dispelled, or only sorcerously Neutralized?), one spell I miss among his arsenal is Mindlink - you would need that to be able to cast any spell on him from inside his Countermagic effect.

 

I do wonder whether some of such effect can be attained through "The Arming of <insert martial deity>" rites. In Prince of Sartar (1st chapter) parlance, this is Aelwrin with his Hero Light on.

 

Edited May 5, 2019 by Joerg

[Shiningbrow]

33 minutes ago, PhilHibbs said:

There's a big difference between "not possible" and "not covered". None of those items are ususable due to missing rules, and nor do they break any hard game rules. You could say the same about the NPCs in the Gamemaster Adventures book - Black Spear, Asborn Thriceborn's self-resurrection power, King Vererenenos's shield, spear, and javelin etc.

What we need - and I hope we will get in the Gamemaster Guide - is some guidelines or suggestions for creating and describing such items, either through "mundane" means like the Windberry Staffs or as Heroquest rewards.

HP:      19+31 = 60

Was what I was specifically looking at... Probably a typo, but given the other stats, I'm not sure 😛

Although, yes, I totally agree about missing rules... which would probably be needed to justify those stats (is he Illuminated? Or does he glow really radiant Chaos? Or has he had lots of HQs? Or Gifts? Or...???)

But, that's also why I specifically used the term "basic RQG ruleset"... Armouring Enchantment doesn't exist currently, so at this moment in time, his helmet alone doesn't work.

Edited May 5, 2019 by Shiningbrow

[PhilHibbs]

14 minutes ago, Shiningbrow said:

HP:      19+31 = 60

Was what I was specifically looking at... Probably a typo,

Yes, I didn't spot that, I agree, typo. Could be a Yanafal Tarnils gift I suppose. A character in my RQ3 game had something like 34 HP but that was through Strengthening Enchantments.

Actually it should be 28 + 0 + 3 = 31.

Edited May 5, 2019 by PhilHibbs

[Runeblogger]

On 9/12/2017 at 1:24 PM, CruelDespot said:

After some determined googling, I figured out that stats for the Crimson Bat are in *Cults of Terror*. What other references should I acquire to get the stats for other NPCs that they may encounter in and around Sartar during the Hero Wars? Any leads would be appreciated.

You can find the updated stats for the Crimson Bat in the new RuneQuest Glorantha Bestiary.  ↩️
Its stats have changed a bit since they were first published in Elder Secrets of Glorantha.

[RHW]

11 hours ago, Crel said:

What was your process when coming up with these stats? I can very much see my players wanting to go up against notable named characters of the Hero Wars metaplot someday... 

Well, figured my PCs would get to the mid 100%s by the time we were done, statted Beanpot up as someone they might fight close to end game, wanted him to be able to fight the entire table on his own, so gave him stats that would let him do that. Long before that though, the PCs met Beanpot at a party, took a liking to him, convinced him they were cool, and they became buddies. They ran into him a few more times but never faced him in battle.

They did fight Harrek though. 

He's way worse. That was a bad day for them.

(FYI when I GM I use the stats I write down as a rough guide and adjust on the fly to make the fight work dramatically. So Beanpot could be tougher or easier depending on the goal of the session. And Beanpot with his entire cadre of followers is basically impossible for one group of PCs, no matter what. At that point, he's a counter, after all. So they need to bring a counter with them to fight him.)

[RHW]

9 hours ago, Joerg said:

The way to get there by mechanisms already in the rules would be through divine gifts or their equivalent as heroquest rewards. Why not include an expanded rune point pool into those rewards?

He has a 115 total points of Rune Magic on my original sheet. I was just trying to shoehorn him into RQG. =P

9 hours ago, Joerg said:

In addition, he has access to Humakti-style gifts through Yanafal. And there is a possibility of Chaos Gifts, too - in case of doubt gained through Heroquest challenges, thus pre-selected from the original giftees.

I don't think Beanpot has any Chaos Gifts, or at least mine doesn't. Hating/Fearing Chaos is part of his origin story and even though he's cool with chaos now I guess, it's not for him. I don't actually give YT's gifts and geas (because YT broke all of his), but if he does have any Yanafal gifts, figure they're already included in his prodigious stats. Any geas he has he can (and does) ignore at will. "'Lumination F.T.W.! Take that, Blue Meanies!"

9 hours ago, Joerg said:

I wouldn't have increased the physical stats to that level (unless these are ongoing sorcerous boosts in addition to permanent increases), and his armor rating looks better than Siegfried or (post-Homeric, Lethe-dunked) Achilles. 10 point skin?

 

FWIW I don't really care how he got this way. LOTS of heroquests probably. I just made him a horrible challenge for my players and left it at that. I could probably justify ever last thing by the rules, but meh, who cares?

Truth be told, I was delighted when my PCs won him over (with some clever interactions and lucky rolls) and never had to fight him. And it turned out out they considered him a friend too. Once they found him stumbling home from a bender in Glamour, drunk as a skunk, completely unarmed and unarmored, with no bodyguards. EASY PICKINGS!

They helped him home, cleaned him up, and tucked him in bed, making sure to turn him on his side so he wouldn't drown in his own puke.

9 hours ago, Joerg said:

When I see stats like that, I see a storm of magically enhanced missiles swarming in, with a 10-15% chance of landing a critical for each. Halved if a few meat shields engage him to prevent him from attacking the missileers.

Yes. It is very important to engage him in melee or he will cleaver you to death. It was my plan to have his magic spirits Firearrow or Speeddart or Multimissle the Cleavers for extra fun. Note though that the YT spell STAND AGAINST MANY lets him apply his full parry or dodge to everyone in melee range. So that's fun.

9 hours ago, Joerg said:

With a perma-Shield 8 (can that be dispelled, or only sorcerously Neutralized?), one spell I miss among his arsenal is Mindlink - you would need that to be able to cast any spell on him from inside his Countermagic effect.

YGMV but I allow bound spirits and allied spirits in objects  to all be "inside" the Shield spell, so that takes care of that. The Shield 8 can be Dismissed normally with 8 pts of Rune Magic. 

9 hours ago, Joerg said:

I do wonder whether some of such effect can be attained through "The Arming of <insert martial deity>" rites. In Prince of Sartar (1st chapter) parlance, this is Aelwrin with his Hero Light on.

For me this was "walking around but ready to beef" Beanpot, but YGMV.  Hero Light On Beanpot isn't that different but includes his entire hero band including dedicated heavy infantry, cavalry, archers, healers, and casters. Much Mindblast! Many Madness! No Shield for you! LUNES EVERYWHERE OMG!

Edited May 5, 2019 by RHW

[RHW]

8 hours ago, PhilHibbs said:

Yes, I didn't spot that, I agree, typo. Could be a Yanafal Tarnils gift I suppose. A character in my RQ3 game had something like 34 HP but that was through Strengthening Enchantments.

Actually it should be 28 + 0 + 3 = 31.

Beanpot never studied math.

[RHW]

Man I just found Harrek's stats for my game and he is so much more horrible than Beanpot.

[Austin]

4 hours ago, RHW said:

Man I just found Harrek's stats for my game and he is so much more horrible than Beanpot.

Post them!  though TBH I think the only hero/superhero my players won't wanna someday throwdown with is Harrek.

[jeffjerwin]

Does any one else recall the crazy stats made for the major NPCs reprinted in Wyrms Footprints? I believe Dave Hargreave did them for his Arduin Grimoire system.

[Bill the barbarian]

16 minutes ago, jeffjerwin said:

Does any one else recall the crazy stats made for the major NPCs reprinted in Wyrms Footprints? I believe Dave Hargreave did them for his Arduin Grimoire system.

I recall them and even thought I had them but when this thread began I had a look and nyet. They strongly resembled weird d&d stats no?

[jeffjerwin]

18 minutes ago, Bill the barbarian said:

I recall them and even thought I had them but when this thread began I had a look and nyet. They strongly resembled weird d&d stats no?

Yes. Overpowered but still relatively ordinary. Harrek is an 18th level 'Warrior', Argrath is a 10th level 'Warrior', Gunda is an 8th level Warrior, Jar-Eel is a 12th level Warrior-priestess, and the Red Emperor is a multi-classed Wizard/Warrior 15/15; Beat Pot is a Warrior 4/Priest 8, and Jaldon is a 8th level Warrior. Relatively weak by modern D&D standards, though their equipment is amazing.

[Pentallion]

Argrath can be easily statted up without fear.  Because if he gets killed another Argrath could take his place.  We don't really know if there's more than one or if they are all the same Argraths or different leaders who rose to replace the last one, ala Dread Pirate Roberts.  And therefore, any stats you give him is fine, if he dies, it actually opens up paths for the PCs to carry the Argrath mantle for a time.

[Shiningbrow]

17 hours ago, PhilHibbs said:

Yes, I didn't spot that, I agree, typo. Could be a Yanafal Tarnils gift I suppose. A character in my RQ3 game had something like 34 HP but that was through Strengthening Enchantments.

Actually it should be 28 + 0 + 3 = 31.

 

8 hours ago, RHW said:

Beanpot never studied math.

Right!

That makes much more sense...

The high stats across the board are still.... odd. Doable, though.

 

In My Glorantha Variant, all PCs should always be capable of reaching the same heights. And, therefore, the rules should allow for it somewhere. Those NPCs like Harrek, Argrath, etc shouldn't be 'miraculous' in the sense that they break the rules. When we look at other superheroes from other universes, they're not "just" that way - there's a reason behind it, and if anyone else was in the same position, they too would gain said powers. (Granted, child of deity is a bit unique, so our heroes probably shouldn't get that... but the rest???)

[RHW]

2 hours ago, Shiningbrow said:

 

Right!

That makes much more sense...

The high stats across the board are still.... odd. Doable, though.

 

In My Glorantha Variant, all PCs should always be capable of reaching the same heights. And, therefore, the rules should allow for it somewhere. Those NPCs like Harrek, Argrath, etc shouldn't be 'miraculous' in the sense that they break the rules. When we look at other superheroes from other universes, they're not "just" that way - there's a reason behind it, and if anyone else was in the same position, they too would gain said powers. (Granted, child of deity is a bit unique, so our heroes probably shouldn't get that... but the rest???)

PCs in my game got perilously close to Beanpot. They didn’t quite reach Harrek though. There were mechanisms for them to do most of what you see there. I just didn’t both to figure EXACTLY how it all worked for Beanpot. Most of their major skills were at or around 200% in RQ terms by the time they triggered the Dragonrise. The numbers don’t exactly translate, but roughly there anyway.

[RHW]

For an example, see Mhorhys in this thread. And he was a bit wimpy compared to the top PCs . For RQ, multiply skills by 5. So he’s at 210% broadsword, 40 defend = 200% shield parry.

 

[PhilHibbs]

8 hours ago, jeffjerwin said:

Yes. Overpowered but still relatively ordinary. Harrek is an 18th level 'Warrior', Argrath is a 10th level 'Warrior', Gunda is an 8th level Warrior, Jar-Eel is a 12th level Warrior-priestess, and the Red Emperor is a multi-classed Wizard/Warrior 15/15; Beat Pot is a Warrior 4/Priest 8, and Jaldon is a 8th level Warrior. Relatively weak by modern D&D standards, though their equipment is amazing.

Yes, but "by modern D&D standards" is the key. I once played in a high level AD&D campaign, we were all around 14th level by the end of it and we were big damn heroes, taking on armies and demigods. We did D&D equivalents of Heroquests, learning the secrets of the universe and breaking the rules the same way that Gloranthan Heroquesters do. I think some later (A)D&D rules expanded the level range above 18, and people were talking about 100th level characters, but our DM had come up with his own mechanisms for superpowering D&D that didn't rely on level numbers. This cartoon reminded me a lot of our game.

Sorry I got a bit off topic there. My point is, advancement to heroic levels involves more than just the core rules. Sure, your basic skills and attributes need to be fairly high to provide a good grounding and to get you there in the first place, but there will be more to it than that. Heroquest abilities like self-resurrection and powerful "gifts", potent magical items like Beat Pot's returning scimitars, permanent Rune spells, and powerful spirit allies.

Edited May 6, 2019 by PhilHibbs

[Tywyll]

On 5/4/2019 at 5:22 PM, David Scott said:

I use Superworld and GURPs Lensman as my guidelines for RQ power. Hero points for building characters was based on a total of the seven stats, you rerolled if under 91. This was so close to GURPs 100 point standard build that it was easy to use the GURPs point scale to measure character build. I played GURPs Lensman and that had a good scale for measuring heroes, so using my previous table, I'd add this to it. If you've no idea what Lensman is about https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lensman_series

Fair  75

Good 100 - (Citizen of the Galaxy) (Normal Gurps & superworld)

Very Good 150

Excellent 200 - (Galactic Patrolman) 

Renowned 400 - (Lieutenant Lensman)

Heroic 1000 - (Unattached)

Super Heroic 3000+ (2nd Stage Lensman) (Kimball Kinison 4158)

Theres a level beyond this that's unplayable.

I built a Troll heroquester team at 500 points (each) who still struggled in Snakepipe Hollow.

I would love to see those character sheets!

Do you make characters pay for mundane weapons (as they do in Superworld)? 

How do characters get so many character points?

[David Scott]

18 minutes ago, Tywyll said:

I would love to see those character sheets!

I don't have them any more, but I do remember some details. I was over 20 years ago!

21 minutes ago, Tywyll said:

Do you make characters pay for mundane weapons (as they do in Superworld)?

IIRC only if magical (superpower)

23 minutes ago, Tywyll said:

How do characters get so many character points?

HeroQuesting. I used the gaining hero point rules, you could buy them with POW, you could use the POW of "magic items" found on HeroQuests, you could steal them from others on quests by defeating them. The problem was that the more you had, others would come to get them from you.

I also used elements from Steve Marsh's 1992 HeroQuesting rules https://adrr.com/hero/norns/08.htm & https://adrr.com/hero/wildhunt/slm022.htm

and Shattered Norns. https://adrr.com/hero/norns/index.htm

Steve Maurer's HeroQuest rules were also influential but were very superRQ (super grits & Hypercrits).