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1652 Great Flood


David Scott

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7 hours ago, David Scott said:

Heroes in their respective area put up defences and save their locale (I fought We Won):

These are all awesome ideas!

I imagine pro-Lunar gamers would feel similarly about the Dragonrise... For all the problems created by playing a vastly diverging Glorantha (like a Glorantha where the Lunar PCs stop the Dragonrise and allow their people to continue occupying Sartar), it feels like playing in a Glorantha where the flood doesn't happen/happens differently/happens later is actually quite easy to do, since I don't think Chaosium will advance the published materials' dates to 1652 any time soon (judging by how slowly the "current date" has advanced in the last 40 years :) ). Heck, I can't even imagine reaching that date myself, as I'm more likely to end a campaign and start another one, rather than continuing the same one long enough.

I find it interesting that there's an "impending flood" in the near future of the Gloranthan metaplot. I think most "Great Flood" events tend to be mythical events that happened in the distant past... are there any ancient cultures where floods are in the present/future instead?  (it's also possible that this particular flood is less a product of mythical inspiration, and more a product of some Chaosium writer's super-long home campaign needing a big shake-up to keep the players on their toes?)

Edited by lordabdul
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Ludovic aka Lordabdul -- read and listen to  The God Learners , the Gloranthan podcast, newsletter, & blog !

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31 minutes ago, lordabdul said:

are there any ancient cultures where floods are in the present/future instead?

The seas rising to swamp the land is one of several signs in the Norse Eddas that Ragnarok is here, caused by the restless coils of the World-serpent churning the oceans.

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Consider how Melib was saved from the flood during the God Time. King Dengsalu stabbed the Red Sword of Tolat into the ground. Then Tolat reached down and used the sword as a handle that he used to lift the entire Island up.

If your mythic explanation for how the bit of land you would like to save from the flood  (Esrolia, Prax, Seshnela, God Forgot, etc) is less ridiculous and less flagrantly contemptuous of physics than that, then its valid. Just have a cool idea how happens. Like, if your PCs bring back Genert, he isn’t going to know what to do about a flood? 

Except Ramalia, of course, it’s full of jerks and nobody likes them, sink the place and drown them all 😁

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4 minutes ago, davecake said:

Just have a cool idea how happens. Like, if your PCs bring back Genert, he isn’t going to know what to do about a flood? 

Exactly. Maybe have this scenario of Genert "lifting" the Wastes/Prax up like some kind of Cthonic Atlas. Or maybe have him carve a deep fissure in the earth for the water to seep into (bonus points for a newly added mythical landmark after the flood recedes. Maybe an underworld fissure, or a deep canyon, or an inland sea or something). 

I dunno, go wild.

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6 minutes ago, Sir_Godspeed said:

Exactly. Maybe have this scenario of Genert "lifting" the Wastes/Prax up like some kind of Cthonic Atlas. Or maybe have him carve a deep fissure in the earth for the water to seep into (bonus points for a newly added mythical landmark after the flood recedes. Maybe an underworld fissure, or a deep canyon, or an inland sea or something). 

Love it. Would be nice just to have the Sword of Tolat. EDIT oh, the inestimable Dave Cake got here first!

Edited by scott-martin

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Yep. Genert digs a canal to where there is a hole that goes all the way to the underworld? Maybe that’s what the Choke Hole in the Krjalki bog becomes once Genert is back. Cool. 
 

Maybe someone in Esrolia rediscovers the magic the God-King used at the Building Wall battle, and makes a great Sea Wall, and Esrolia is like Holland, below sea level but with mighty dykes to defend it? (Not a Babeester Gor joke). Maybe Veskarthan erupts mightily to make a giant lava wall? 
 

In Seshnela, the Brithini are back. Remember all the crazy stuff Zzabur did? Think they are just going to stand by and let their new Kingdom of True Malkioni drown?

(ok, a bit out of character to Zzabur, who sunk the whole West and drowned millions, but he also blasted a few floods before too)

it is the late Hero Wars by then. Mythic beings stride the landscape. Any over the top magic you want is possible, if your game gets that far. Go hog wild. 
 

 

 

Edited by davecake
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It seems a bit difficult to reconcile the fact that the Great Flood takes place pretty much in the middle of the Hero Wars, but doesn't rate more of a mention in the chronicles of the time.  How long is it supposed to last for, and how does it resolve itself?  Also what is the purpose of the "plan" in the first place?

Edited by Darius West
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1 hour ago, Darius West said:

...  Also what is the purpose of the "plan" in the first place?

Twofold:

1.  F' with all the plans of the Elves and Dwarves any everyone else.

2.  Soggy food is still food.

(it's a Troll plan, after all)

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2 minutes ago, g33k said:

Twofold:

1.  F' with all the plans of the Elves and Dwarves any everyone else.

2.  Soggy food is still food.

(it's a Troll plan, after all)

Fair enough.  I can see how salt water might stop the superforestation plot of the Elves, but what about the dragging of Slon to Jrustela by dinosaurs and winches?  Also, won't Anilla simply smash through the iceberg ?  I can't see a heavenly body with that much built up momentum coming to a gentle stop.  And if somehow Anilla doesn't smash it, concrete fortress ships with incendiary cannons, and quite possibly retrofitted Jrusteli firey ice magic certainly will, mermen or no mermen.  Explosives work far more effectively underwater after all, and a waxed fuse is cheap and easy tech.  It just doesn't sound like it will last very long.  Certainly not more than a year at the absolute maximum, and the results will be ecologically catastrophic for a good deal of Glorantha.  I would imagine almost everyone will go troll hunting afterwards.  Reprisals will be immense and terrifying.

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1 hour ago, Gallowglass said:

The Mraloti will save us all! Pigs float!

So do Ducks (and witches)! All hail the Duck saviors of Esrolia!

Of course, the Esrolians could also call upon Vogarth the Strong Man to lift the land up.  Or (thinking the Gods War units), Summon the Behemoth to lift up Esrolia.

1 hour ago, davecake said:

Maybe Veskarthan erupts mightily to make a giant lava wall?

Yes, another good possibility.

Or they awaken/restore Esrolia so that she can unite her Arms together to block the flood and force the waters elsewhere.

1 hour ago, Darius West said:

that the Great Flood takes place pretty much in the middle of the Hero Wars

It's very near the end.  As noted on KoS p.38, Flood occurs in 1652, Red Moon falls in 1655.

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Just now, Darius West said:

So the timeline has been contracted then?  I thought the Moon was pulled down in 1725.

That's what the poor Londarian scribes thought who couldn't figure out how all the people fit together...

This is the summarized list of events from KoS (2015 edition):

1620's
1621 - Whitewall falls
1624 - Orlanth freed
1625 - Dragon swallows Lunar temple
1627 - Argrath becomes Prince of Sartar
1628 - Battle of Heroes
1629 - Argrath marries FHQ
1630's
1632 - Argrath conquers Tarsh
1634 - Argrath betrothed
1635 - Battle of Yoran
1638 - Battle of Dwernapple
1640's
1640 - CHDP written
1643 - Argrath weds Inkarne
1645 - Argrath’s Lightbringers’ Quest
1646 - Battle of Dantolfol
1648 - Sheng Seleris devours Moonson
1649 - Great Winter begins
1650's
1650 - Battle of Gardint
1651 - Monster Empire shows itself
1652 - The Flood
1655 - Red Moon falls
1658 - Apotheosis of Argrath

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2 hours ago, Sir_Godspeed said:

...
I dunno, go wild.

^^^ This! ^^^

Ye gods, people!  This is Glorantha!  Mythomagical Glorantha, where heroes mostly find "death" to be an annoying inconvenience, where "time" was constructed as a Compromise to stop Chaos from eating/dissolving/whatever all of creation... 

Where the Hero Wars are upon us, and NOTHING is impossible.

Maybe some enterprising Eurmali sets himself up with a Hero Cult* & a variant on the Swallow spell, and Saves Us All...

 

 

* it's called "The Frat."  Nobody knows why.  They have only one Holy Rite, an eternal bacchanalian debauch called "the paaar-tay!" and it's the whole of their duty and worship:  they chant the Sacred Chant** 24/7, unceasingly; they collectively (as a  Cult) sac at least 1 RP per day and at least 1 MP per hour.

 

** The Chant is a simple mantra, very meditative and calming...

"Chug! Chug! Chug! Chug!" &c...

 

 

(all those other Cults' adventures and Heroquests and whatnot?  Well, I'm sure they helped a bit.  But what really saved us all was the paaar-tay!)

Edited by g33k

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6 minutes ago, g33k said:

* it's called "The Frat."  Nobody knows why.  They have only one Holy Rite, an eternal bacchanalian debauch called "the paaar-tay!" and it's the whole of their duty and worship:  they chant the Sacred Chant** 24/7, unceasingly; they collectively (as a  Cult) sac at least 1 RP per day and at least 1 MP per hour.

The less said about the elusive Eurmali heroband known only by an acronym, the LMFAO, the better

e:

  

33 minutes ago, jajagappa said:

the Esrolians could also call upon

Ezkankekko to open the Sea Gate of the Shadow Plateau, and drain the flood harmlessly into Ezdaroun the primal Underworld river.

Edited by dumuzid
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15 minutes ago, g33k said:

a variant on the Swallow spell

Swallow Sea!

Of course, this is also the time of the Great Wave, when the cult of Indlas Somer returns from the far reaches of the world upon their magical boards, and teaching all how to ride the wave!

 

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2 hours ago, jajagappa said:

Swallow Sea!

Obviously the shrine which teaches this is in some obscure location.  I'm inclined to think it's at a sunken Trickster temple in old Slontos (or somewhere else in Slontos, perhaps Kaxtorplose?) guarded by water demons and hostile malasp.

Edit: Or... in the belly of:  a) a whale; b) a Waertagi sea dragon; c) the Leviathan. (after all, where else would a lost Trickster shrine be!) ;-)

Edited by jajagappa
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Pavis is easy.  New City inhabitants flee to Old Pavis.  The PCs contact the giants to put up a new wall to block the Zola Fel south and seal up the Zola Fel entrance to the north.  They do this with aid of the Flintnail cult, cutting off the troll ruins and leaving the troll break outside the new walls, avenging the city upon their pillagers at the same time.  Meanwhile, the Flintnail cult has a triceratops and cranks the Garden above the waters as Yelmalians keep the sky clear of storm clouds and the PCs redirect some of the flood into the Devils Playground and flush out the Krarsht once and for all.

Edited by Pentallion
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45 minutes ago, coffeemancer said:

Argrath has severed the divine realm from the mortal?

Says who?

and then what does Apotheosis actually mean in this context?

Personally I think he steps beyond time to keep the compromise intact, which brings the world back into some form of stability. He is still worshipped.

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Just now, David Scott said:

Says who?

and then what does Apotheosis actually mean in this context?

Personally I think he steps beyond time to keep the compromise intact, which brings the world back into some form of stability. He is still worshipped.

Didn't he do that? or did he just kill the gods? as far as I understood it, after he did his heroquest thing the world turned mundane, without gods and magic

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24 minutes ago, coffeemancer said:

Didn't he do that? or did he just kill the gods? as far as I understood it, after he did his heroquest thing the world turned mundane, without gods and magic

I don't think it's that straightforward. King of Sartar is written about 525 years after Argrath's final events and what assume to be the end of the 4th Age, as the Devil returns every 600 years:

KoS 2ed page 230

Quote

As mentioned above, the next expected appearance of the Devil is in 2277. That is only 77 years away from us now,

We don't really know anything about the 4th Age except what's on page 5 of KoS and a bit about an illiteracy era and recovery from it (I wouldn't call the 3rd age that literate either, so it could just be about the so called literate societies becoming illiterate - like the sorcerers of the west).

(Have you read King of Sartar?, if not, it's worth the effort)

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Search the Glorantha Resource Site: https://wellofdaliath.chaosium.com. Search the Glorantha mailing list archives: https://glorantha.steff.in/digests/

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As I look at the map that got posted a while ago... it looks like Maniria somehow isn't flooded?  If that's the case, I'm guessing some big Heler goings on, combined with some cities going domed liked Erenplose.  And, of course, floating pigs.

 

Also... what will the Flood do to the White Sea?  Will the Sweet Sea rejoin the oceans?

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