Grappling with a rules question.

[Butters]

Grappling came up during a recent session and I had a rules question as I was a little fuzzy on the whole procedure,

As far as I remember my character was going to be grappled by a N.PC the N.P.C made the attack and succeeded he then choose to inflict pain then we both rolled an opposed Unarmed Combat roll to see if I could break free I passed but so did the attacker now this is where the fuzzy comes in I thought it was an opposed roll so whoever rolls highest under their skill wins which was me so I thought my character had broken free but the others said that as the attacker had passed even though it was with a lower roll the grapple remained. 

Now I admit I was a little miffed as I thought I had broken free but the main cause for my momentary gruffness was more to do with the fact that I thought I had understood the rule and it appears that I hadn't which always bothers me. So hopefully someone can explain and clear up my fuzziness so I will know what to do in the future.    

Edited January 28, 2018 by Butters
Clarification

[Nick J.]

Unarmed Combat

Unarmed Combat works the same as Close Combat, except that one or more of the combatants is unarmed. An Unarmed Combat attack does 1D3 damage, plus the normal Damage Modifier. If an Unarmed Combat attack is parried by a crafted or natural weapon, then the attacker will immediately suffer the rolled damage of the Parrying natural weapon, with no damage modifier; if this turns out to be a Serious or Grave wound, it will be to the limb he is using to attack. This is in addition to the normal effect of the Parry.

Grappling:

A grapple attack is made in the same way as a normal Unarmed Combat or natural weapon attack but must be declared as such before any dice are rolled. Should the attacker hit with his grapple attack, no damage is initially caused. Instead, the attacker then opposes his Unarmed Combat skill to the target’s Unarmed combat skill, in a roll similar to an opposed skill test. Grapple Fails: The grapple attempt fails and the attack is considered to have missed. Grapple Succeeds: The two combatants are now grappling and the attacker may immediately follow up on this success by Throwing, Inflicting pain or Immobilising the target.

My instinct is that you are right. on two normal successes the tie should go to the defender per the combat matrix, so unless the opposed rolls were two criticals, you should have been able to stave off the grapple attempt, and even if you went by the rules of an opposed skill test, the higher successful roll should win.

 

[Butters]

Cheers man, I think the confusion is coming from how the grapple section is written to be honest, 

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Unarmed combat skill, in a roll similar to an opposed skill test.

It then gives the two options of Grapple fails or succeeds so its unclear to me why there is even a roll off at this point and its also unclear how its similar to a normal opposed roll. This then effects the Break free action as its written as an opposed grapple roll instead of just an opposed roll so looking at the first section it looks to be just a straight pass or fail on the attackers part and what the defender rolls seems to make no difference.

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If the character succeeds his roll while his opponent fails then the character has succeeded in breaking free

The other Players said that since the attacker didn't fail his roll the grapple remains in place even though I had also passed, I'm guessing because the description didn't mention that as an option.  So reading it as is I would like to know,

1. The first section on grappling, similar to an opposed roll how? because at the moment it seems nothing like an opposed roll at all.

2, Break free should this be treated as a normal opposed roll and so all normal opposed rules apply?

 

I think Grapple is the only time where an opposed roll gets the Similar qualifier and this seems to be the source of confusion at least on my part. 

Again thanks for the reply I was starting to think I was missing something obvious. 

Edited January 31, 2018 by Butters

[Nick J.]

I agree that the wording makes things a little muddy. The way I would rule it is that there's only two rolls: one for the attacker and one for the defender as per the combat matrix for regular combat. Two normal successes should give the tie to the defender. It's only if the attacker gets through that he can then immediately perform a knockdown, immobilize, or pain. That said, following the procedure for opposed rolls, where the highest successful roll wins, wouldn't break the game.

Was your character allowed any sort of attempt to "parry" the grapple attempt in the first exchange? Breaking free, should only come up on your character's combat action for the round, not your combat reaction.

Edited February 1, 2018 by Nick J.

[Butters]

I think I got a chance to dodge but failed so the grapple was a success he then inflicted pain and afterwards I had a few options I tried to break free. I rolled a 17 with an unarmed skill of 43 so a pass whilst the attacker rolled a 10 or 11 out of 35? so neither of us got a critical but I thought I had managed to break free. The others seemed to say that as written all it said was if the attacker succeeds then the grapple remains in place and he had succeeded so I remained grappled. Which i didn't understand as why was I even rolling?

Edited February 2, 2018 by Butters

[Nick J.]

As soon as you try to break free on your combat action, it should provoke opposed rolls. By my reading, it should be 'highest successful roll, or highest degree of success' just like any other opposed skill roll. I.e. you were screwed over.

[Butters]

It all worked out in the end my character had a very sore throat but the other Player character was able to hack the attacker to bits so all good now I just have to worry about this contact poison I just touched.

Edited February 15, 2018 by Butters