Joerg Posted February 18, 2018 Share Posted February 18, 2018 5 hours ago, Oracle said: p. 28: In the graphic describing The Illaro Dynasty a blue box is displayed in the middle on the left for "13. Palashee Long Axe". This box is not connected to any of the other boxes. Sitting on the same level as "12. Philigos" and "14. Phargentes", my guess is, that Palashee Long Axe is another Offspring from "Kana-Telsor" and "11. Phoronestes", but the connection is missing. Nope. If Palashee has any family relation to the Lunar Tarshite dynasty, it would be through Sorana Tor - he was a native Tarshite rebel/usurper from Shaker's Temple who ousted the Lunar king from his land for 17 years. Telling how it is excessive verbis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jajagappa Posted February 18, 2018 Share Posted February 18, 2018 10 minutes ago, Joerg said: Nope. If Palashee has any family relation to the Lunar Tarshite dynasty, it would be through Sorana Tor - he was a native Tarshite rebel/usurper from Shaker's Temple who ousted the Lunar king from his land for 17 years. Correct. Palashee is not related to the Lunar Tarshite dynasty but was raised by the Shaker Temple. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M Helsdon Posted February 18, 2018 Share Posted February 18, 2018 (edited) 6 hours ago, Oracle said: p. 28: In the graphic describing The Illaro Dynasty a blue box is displayed in the middle on the left for "13. Palashee Long Axe". This box is not connected to any of the other boxes. Sitting on the same level as "12. Philigos" and "14. Phargentes", my guess is, that Palashee Long Axe is another Offspring from "Kana-Telsor" and "11. Phoronestes", but the connection is missing. Palashee overturned Lunar rule in Tarsh until he was killed; he was the thirteenth king, but not of the dynasty of Lunar Kings. Edited February 18, 2018 by M Helsdon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jenx Posted February 18, 2018 Share Posted February 18, 2018 9 hours ago, JanPospisil said: Apologies for butting in, but I don't see a thread about the actual book - Aside from the art, should I buy it if I already have the Guide? (sorry, I've not followed this much, not sure if there's new material in this) In general the Sourcebook has more stuff about actual myths and genealogies of various pantheons, while the Guide focused more on places and people. I'd say it's worth it in addition to the Guide, although of course nothing can match it's enormity. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oracle Posted February 18, 2018 Share Posted February 18, 2018 1 hour ago, jajagappa said: Correct. Palashee is not related to the Lunar Tarshite dynasty but was raised by the Shaker Temple. Ok, I stand corrected here. But this means, Palashee is not a member of The Illaro Dynasty, which raises the question, why he is listed in this genealogy at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jajagappa Posted February 18, 2018 Share Posted February 18, 2018 9 hours ago, JanPospisil said: (sorry, I've not followed this much, not sure if there's new material in this) As @Jenx noted there's a lot of material on Gloranthan mythology not in the Guide plus the complete history of the Lunar Empire. If you have old Wyrms Footnotes, then a good bit of this will be familiar, though updated and with new additions (e.g. the 6th, 7th, and 8th Wane notes on the Lunar Empire, the Lunar deities, the Sartar Magical Union). Lots of great art - the genealogies of the different pantheons offer some real interesting ideas about some of those figures. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jajagappa Posted February 18, 2018 Share Posted February 18, 2018 (edited) 8 minutes ago, Oracle said: which raises the question, why he is listed in this genealogy at all. Probably because the genealogy is drawn from King of Sartar p.99 which lists all the Kings of Tarsh including the Twins Dynasty, the Illaro Dynasty, and Palashee (who is noted as an orphan of the Shaker's Temple). If you didn't include him, I'm sure someone would be asking "what happened to the 13th King"? Edited February 18, 2018 by jajagappa 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M Helsdon Posted February 18, 2018 Share Posted February 18, 2018 (edited) Page reference below refer to page numbers within the pdf, not the number on the pages. Comments on charts (some duplication with earlier comments) Warning: when checking the genealogical charts, I assumed that the charts were wrong, and the text was correct. Looking at King of Sartar, from which the charts are mostly derived, I have concluded that the charts may be correct, and the text may be wrong. Unfortunately, the text in King of Sartar also disagrees with the charts in that book. The same goes for some of the spelling of names. Obviously, if dates in the chart or text are wrong, they throw out subsequent dates. Either the discrepancies are intentional, or the charts or text are wrong. I’m not in a position to determine which; I can only identify that there’s a potential issue here. Long ago I checked the text of King of Sartar, but didn't see the charts until it was published. The Feathered Horse Queens Page 23: Yorastina – might be - Yoristina Saronil (1497–1552) – page 29 says he died in 1550 Verala Tor (1544–1582) Feathered Horse Queen (1565–1582) Queen of Dragon Pass (1575–1582) – Page 22 says Queen of Dragon Pass 1579 to 1582 Saraskos (1575–1597) – Page 31 says Saraskos was killed in the Holy Country in 1587 The Illaro Dynasty Page 28 Palashee Long Axe – should be - Palashee Longaxe Pharandos – should be - Pharandros Sartar Dynasty House of Saronil Page 30 Featherd Horse Queen – should be – Feathered Horse Queen “Reaches Furthest” – on page 22 - Reaches Farthest Ernalsor - King of Sartar names Sartar’s father as Ernalsar Saronil (Born 1497) 2nd Prince of Sartar (1520–1552) – page 29 says he died in 1550 Yorastina (Born 1496) – should be - Yoristina Jarolar (Born 1519) 3rd Prince of Sartar (1552–1557) – Page 29 says - Crowned in 1550, died in 1565 Jarosar (Born 1535) 4th Prince of Sartar (1557–1561) – Page 29 says - Crowned in 1565, died in 1569 Featherd Horse Queen “Mother of Lands” – should be – Feathered Horse Queen “Mother of Lands” Enerin “Iron Eye” – on page 46 - Enerin Ironeye Yorastina – should be - Yoristina Yaransor – on page 29 - Yaransoar Sartar Dynasty —House of Argrath— Page 51 Sarotar (Born 1518, Died 1546) Eneera Tor Featherd Horse Queen “Reaches Furthest” - Featherd Horse Queen – should be – Feathered Horse Queen - “Reaches Furthest” – on page 22 - Reaches Farthest Minara (Born 1539) Ernalsor - King of Sartar names Sartar’s father as Ernalsar Saronil (Born 1497) 2nd Prince of Sartar (1520–1552) – page 29 says he died in 1550 Yorastina – should be - Yoristina Jarolar (Born 1519) 3rd Prince of Sartar (1552–1557) – Page 29 says - Crowned in 1550, died in 1565 Onelisin “Cat Witch” (Born 1520) – usually Onelisin Cat-Witch Sorana “Millstone” – on Page 29 - Sorana Millstone Argrath (Born 1599) 8th Prince of Sartar (1627–1655) King of Dragon Pass,Kethaela, and Saird – Page 211 says - Argrath was born in 1596 Genealogy of the primary Water deities page 87 Framanth – should be – Framanthe Genealogy of the primary Fire/Sky deities page 101 Polestar – elsewhere in document – Pole Star Murharazam – should be – Murharzarm Tolat – as the other gods are given Dara Happan names might this be – Shargash Page 206 - From the Temple of the Black Arkat at Arkat’s Hold – picture has been cropped very poorly, meaning that several deities are cut off. Needs resizing. The caption also hides one deity – Lodril, and Orlanth is completely cut out of the picture! Please reconsider the formatting of this picture, as much of its artistry and detail is lost. Edited February 20, 2018 by M Helsdon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Meints Posted February 18, 2018 Share Posted February 18, 2018 ALL, The following is very important, and I say it with all respect to those helping us: When I am updating the files in InDesign I can ONLY go by the actual page numbers on the page. IF YOU TELL ME PAGE NUMBERS FROM THE PDF IT MAKES IT MUCH HARDER TO FIX THINGS! Also, reporting things that have already been reported (and probably fixed) is making this much more time consuming, especially if you submit multiple edits in a lengthy post. I am not going to realistically be able to remember all of the edits I have previously done, so in many cases when you report a typo someone else has already reported you are often going to force me to spend the time checking that typo again, and probably not finding it. I am not trying to sound ungrateful, but I only have so much time to spend on doing these typo fixes. 1 Hope that Helps,Rick Meints - Chaosium, Inc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oracle Posted February 18, 2018 Share Posted February 18, 2018 9 hours ago, Oracle said: ... but I've found some, which were not mentioned so far (Page references refer to page numbers on the pages, not the numbers in the pdf): ... changed page references in above entry according to Rick's request. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M Helsdon Posted February 19, 2018 Share Posted February 19, 2018 10 hours ago, Rick Meints said: ALL, Afraid the unpleasant exercise to translate outstanding 2016 comments to 2018 pdf pages took over eight hours over the weekend. Will start to use document page numbers. However, as I'm reading the document offline, it isn't possible to check for previously reported comments, except during the brief time I have to be online each day, and that will require more effort. The 2016 checking took forty to fifty hours plus, and this exercise is likely to take as long. Simply working through the charts yesterday afternoon took two hours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M Helsdon Posted February 19, 2018 Share Posted February 19, 2018 (edited) From this point using page numbers at the bottom of some pages. Page 49: landclearing – should be land-clearing Page 51: lizardlike – should be – lizard-like Page 52: swordlike – should be – sword-like Page 52: lefthanded – should be – left-handed Page 52: horsesized – should be – horse-sized Page 52: klanths – might be in italics. Page 53: jolanti and nilmergs – proper names might have a capital letter and/or be in italics. Page 53: truestone – should have a capital letter and/or be in italics. Given a capital letter on the next page. General: Krjalki might be in italics Page 62: rout.But – should be - rout. But Page 66: Great Elementals.. – should be - Great Elementals. Page 70: because she embodied all of the mystical – suggest - because she embodied all the mystical Page 70: all of subsequent reality – suggest - all subsequent reality Page 70: Thus. Individuals – should be - Thus individuals Page 71: the burtae spread to the edges of Glorantha – should be - the Burtae spread to the edges of Glorantha [See usage elsewhere] Page 73: realm of his descendents – should be - realm of his descendants Page 74: Aamor or Aanor (twice)? Both used on page. Page 79: Deathound – might be Death-Hound – elsewhere in document Deathhound Page 79: underworld – should be – Underworld Page 84: The terms indicates – should be - The term indicates Page 84: In this way there was made – might be - In this way, there was made Page 87: One Hundred Twenty Four – might be - One Hundred Twenty-Four – or - One Hundred and Twenty-Four Page 87: earthful – not a real word, perhaps – earth-full – or – Earth-full Page 89: The earth system – might be – Earth system Page 89: protomyth – should be – proto-myth Page 90: sheafs – might be – sheaves Page 97: luxates – proper names might have a capital letter and/or be in italics. Page 98: Star Path – should be - Star Path. Page 100: rulership – suggest – ruler-ship – or – rule Page 100: rulership – (second instance) suggest – reign Page 102: rulership – suggest – rule Page 104: different forms: an Old God – might be - different forms: An Old God Page 111: forebode – tense reads oddly, perhaps – presaged Page 111: overstructure – might be – over-structure Page 112: It is a unique, celestial phenomena – should be - It is a unique, celestial phenomenon Page 112: seven day – might be – seven-day Page 112: Manthi – should probably be – Manthie Page 113: klanth – should be in italics? Page 113: utuma – should be in italics? [General comment] Page 115: foolmaker – should be – fool-maker Page 118: solar religion – might be - Solar religion Page 127: The endless bickerings and jealousies – should be - The endless bickering and jealousies Page 128: At the end of the Gbaji Wars, Arkat the Destroyer ravaged the land and the goddess of Dorastor, leaving material and magical ruin – suggest - At the end of the Gbaji Wars, Arkat the Destroyer ravaged the land and the goddess of Dorastor, leaving mundane and magical ruin. Page 129: aldryami – usually – Aldryami Page 129: dragonewts, aldryami, trolls – most other such lists have the form - Dragonewts, Aldryami, Trolls Page 131: (note the Green Dragon head) – dragon head seems to have been cropped out of the picture! The top seems to be just visible in Orlanth’s hand. Either improve layout or delete reference. Page 132: Arkat’s final incarnation was as the Destroyer, a monstrous incarnation of destruction – suggest - Arkat’s final incarnation was as the Destroyer, a monstrous manifestation of destruction Page 220: two volume - might be – two-volume (Also skimmed pages 211-213 today) Time spent today: five hours. Edited February 19, 2018 by M Helsdon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M Helsdon Posted February 19, 2018 Share Posted February 19, 2018 Page 133: all the universe was in confusion – should be - All the universe was in confusion Page 134: Roman numerals – should be - Arabic numerals Page 137: Osentalka - suggest this might be in italics Page 138: This is consistent with how Choas – should be - This is consistent with how Chaos Page 140: Arkat had became the Destroyer he saught – should be - Arkat had become the Destroyer he sought [Believe I’ve reported saught before] Page 141: far east – might be – Far East Page 147: of celestial and Underworld powers – suggest - of Celestial and Underworld powers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craig N Posted February 20, 2018 Share Posted February 20, 2018 I'm sure some of these are duplicates of things already in the thread: p. 1, par 2, typo "wthin" for wIthin p. 7, box, typo "ever-reincrnating" for reincArnating p. 74, end of italicized intro "the more widely <<>> God Learner titles" seems to be missing a word, "used" or "known" p. 93, there are two Fronelas on the map; I can't tell if this is an error or not. p. 99, the map calls it KENO FIN with an N instead of an R p. 110, last par, typo "Kagan Tor" for "KaRgan Tor" pp.149-150: missing text in the transition; 150 should clearly begin "...Mothers" and complete a missing sentence, as well as starting the next one. p. 157, missing line between bottom 1st column and top 2nd: "priests. The <<Chaos demon and his allies were driven off by a small>> deity from" p. 171, the map says Sheng was on the Moon 1419, an error for 1449. p. 180, last sentence, "favored <<>> the Red Emperor" missing "by" back cover text: do you really want to capitalize the C in "the Coming of Argrath"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
metcalph Posted February 20, 2018 Share Posted February 20, 2018 1 hour ago, Craig N said: p. 93, there are two Fronelas on the map; I can't tell if this is an error or not. There's only one Fronela. The second is Eronela which survives in Erontree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M Helsdon Posted February 20, 2018 Share Posted February 20, 2018 (edited) Page 153: and contains his personal annotations, which have been included here in the footnotes – no footnotes. Suggest this be deleted. Page 155: To the west – suggest - To the west, Page 159: also knon as Doskalos – should be - also known as Doskalos Page 160: Karash'arll – on page 162: Karash'aril [Which is correct?] Page 161: He was reknowned – should be - He was renowned Page 175: subchiefs – should be – sub-chiefs Page 176: When they do – should be - When they do, Page 180: Phornostes – should be – Phoronestes [reported this in 2016] Page 180: the Emperor began a great patronship – should be - the Emperor began a great patronage Page 183: assimililated – should be – assimilated Page 186: Sheng Seleris’s purge – should be - Sheng Seleris’ purge [As per usage elsewhere] Page 188: personal sacrific – should be - personal sacrifice. Page 205: a person could effect wide-ranging effects – suggest - a person could influence wide-ranging effects – or - a person could compel wide-ranging effects Page 7: The feud between Orlanth and the Red Moon now threatens to destroy Glorantha. Dragon Pass is the main battlefield of this feud – suggest - The strife between Orlanth and the Red Moon now threatens to destroy Glorantha. Dragon Pass is the main battlefield of this feud. Page 119: war-like – should be – warlike Page 6: war-like – should be – warlike Page 52: winglike – should be – wing-like [thought I’d made this comment, but not in my list] Page 42: paragraph starting: The Sartarite army was smaller – indent missing. [These seem to be holdovers from the format in old issues of WF] Page 87: GATA is the Primal Earth – should be - Gata is the Primal Earth Page 87: land god is PAMALT – should be - land god is Pamalt Page 89: ASRELIA is the name – should be - Asrelia is the name Time spent last night: 1 hour. Time spent today: 3.5 hours. Edited February 26, 2018 by M Helsdon 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J Duncan Posted February 20, 2018 Share Posted February 20, 2018 p.03, 2nd paragraph. Should that be "the Sky Dome, supported by the Four Directions." ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M Helsdon Posted February 20, 2018 Share Posted February 20, 2018 As per a comment on another thread, it would be helpful if the Cosmos map on page 2 (page 7 of the PDF) were labelled, or if the caption identified the continents. Perhaps, something like: The Cosmos of Glorantha. The world of mortals lies upon the "lozenge" of Earth, with the continent of Genertela to the north, bordered by the ice of Valind's Glacier, and the continent of Pamaltela to the south, bordered by the fiery desert. At the center, Magasta's Pool is a monstrous whirlpool draining into the Underworld. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M Helsdon Posted February 21, 2018 Share Posted February 21, 2018 Page 10: ancient races, elves, dragonewts, dwarves, and trolls – usually in the form - ancient races, Elves, Dragonewts, Dwarves, and Trolls Page 12: fisherfolk – should be – fisher-folk – or – fisher folk Page 13: Hiia Swordman – should be - Hiia Swordsman Page 14: wintergrown – should be – winter-grown – or – winter grown Page 14: longabandoned – should be – long abandoned Page 14: durulz – might be in italics Page 16: Derik PolJoni – should be - Derik Poljoni Page 19: nationmaker – should be – nation-maker – or – nation maker Page 20: Tylenaea – should be – Tylenea Page 39: bloodcrazed – should be – blood-crazed – or blood crazed Page 40: twosticks – might be in italics Page 44: mountless – might be – mount-less – or dismounted Time spent today: 2 hours. This concludes this pass. Please note that my best hit-rate is around 60% per pass, so this list will not be definitive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy C Posted February 21, 2018 Share Posted February 21, 2018 Just an observation that a new reader might expect a map of Glorantha (or at least Genertela) that shows the places named in the geography chapter and elsewhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M Helsdon Posted February 22, 2018 Share Posted February 22, 2018 (edited) Now reading the document instead of ‘looking’ for bugs. This will take some time. Page 76: Gods Time – God Time in the rest of the document Page 137: the Lightbringer agents went, these agents of civilization – suggest - the Lightbringer agents went, these envoys of civilization Page 185: Voor-Ash on map should be Voor-ash. Page 186: on so called – should be - on so-called Page 186: The Red Emperor took back command that had rested in the hands of the Proxies – reads oddly, suggest - The Red Emperor took back the offices that had rested in the hands of the Proxies – or - The Red Emperor took back the authority that had rested in the hands of the Proxies Page 186 - including Hon-eel – might be - including that of Hon-eel – or including the Eel-ariash, the clan of Hon-eel – or – including the Eel-ariash Page 187: served as his chief advisors and prevented lesser advisors – might be - served as his chief counsellors and prevented lesser advisors Page 188: and confident populace – should be - and the confident populace Page 189: as the powers of the gods shifted and the fortunes of men changed – should be - as the powers of the gods shift and the fortunes of men change Page 189: In 7/53 (1624), the Voor-ash appeared in strength – appears to be a new paragraph, and should be indented. Page 189: Jar-eel the Artess – should be - Jar-eel the Razoress Page 189: Third Battle of Chaos – when was the Second Battle of Chaos? Not mentioned in the Wane histories. Possibly the Nights of Horror were the Second Battle of Chaos. Page 189: By end of 8/1 (1626) – should be - By the end of 8/1 (1626) Page 191: usually the last one accepted in the common world – Air appeared after Sky, so not the last one commonly accepted. Page 192: There are several other theories about the Power Runes besides this dualistic one, but we know that this theory was popular during the Hero Wars period. Some other philosophers claimed that there was a gradual step-building pattern among the deities, which follows the established Creative Devolution theories - Gloranthan Magic: this chapter is written as though long after the Hero Wars. Suggest that to remove this, the text might read: There are several other theories about the Power Runes besides this dualistic one, but this theory is popular during the early Hero Wars. Some other philosophers claim that there was a gradual step-building pattern among the deities, which follows the established Creative Devolution theories Page 192: Regardless of the truth, it is important to remember that most people, including the magicians of the time, knew very little about these Powers except the rudest beginnings of their spiritual potential – as per comment above - Regardless of the truth, it is important to remember that most people, including the magicians of this time, know very little about these Powers except the rudest beginnings of their spiritual potential Page 198: still were voluntary abdicated – should be - still were, voluntarily abdicated Page 198: rejected that as a separate – should be - rejected it as a separate Page 199: disguised with a glamour – perhaps clear from context, it might be wise to explain that a glamour is a Lunar magic spell. Page 200: The essential system of Gloranthan energy exchanges lies in the inherent duality inherent in the spiritual and physical fabric of the cosmos – reads oddly. Perhaps - The essential system of Gloranthan energy exchange lies in the inherent duality inherent in the spiritual and physical fabric of the cosmos Page 200: Magic is the interaction of the Mortal and God Worlds – as start of a paragraph should be indented. Page 200: of services and vow – might be - of services and vows Page 200: A successful and aggressive heroquesters – should be - A successful and aggressive heroquester – or - Successful and aggressive heroquesters Page 203: The Pantheistic method, as was active in Dragon Pass, and later, central Genertela – contradicts Page 137: Central Peloria gave birth to the theistic way of life. [It might be argued that these two chapters were written by different authors, but it isn’t clear that all chapters are in-world documents.] Page 203: almost beyond communication – might be - almost incapable of communication Page 203: from a synthesis of Western sorcery – suggest - from a fusion of Western sorcery [‘synthesis’ is repeatedly used in text] Page 204: pain from the world, and plunging the Sun God into the Underworld to join the ranks of the lesser dead – suggest - pain from the world, plunging the Sun God into the Underworld to join the ranks of the lesser dead Page 205: Hero and hero used interchangeably. Page 205: vacuum – used repeatedly, suggest similar terms be used: vacuity, vacancy - to enhance readability Page 206: Argrath was forced to flee his home on Starfire Ridge – reads as the start of a new paragraph and should be indented. Page 206: from the dragons – might be - from the Dragons Page 206: territorial origins – should be - territorial origin Page 206: and made a kitchen slave – should be - and was made a kitchen slave Page 207: He was a famous Heroquester – should be - He is a famous Heroquester Page 208: a native to this region – which region? Perhaps this should be deleted? Page 208: again with co-operation of the dwarves – reads oddly. Suggest - again in co-operation with the dwarves Page 208: that he has come here – suggest - that he came to the Rockwood Mountains Page 208: Others think he is here – suggest – Others think he has taken up residence in his castle Page 208: came into town – suggest – came to his trading place Page 208: He could be approached – should be - He can be approached Page 208: This immortal Hero is destined to reappear each time all the tribes of Prax assembled at his grave before leaving Prax for war – should be - This immortal Hero is destined to reappear each time all the tribes of Prax assemble at his grave before leaving Prax for war Page 209: Battle of Queens – should be - Battle of the Queens [If changed, affects index] Page 211: secrets taught by Argrath – might be - secrets taught by him Page 211: They include men and women in roughly equal measures – should be - They include men and women in roughly equal measure Page 211: that of the magical regiment – should be - that of their magical regiment Page 211: over-soul (wyter) – might be - over-soul (the wyter) – or - over-soul (their wyter) Page 211: wyter might be in italics [General comment] Page 212: often more than 30 kilometers [General comment previously made about units employed] Page 212: upon an enemy regiment. A wyter is often powerful enough to rout or even destroy an enemy regiment. – duplication; suggest - upon an enemy regiment. A wyter is often powerful enough to rout or even destroy it Page 213: compel a Dragon – might be - compel a True Dragon Additional - rereading comments realized a modification was required for the first page 198 comment. Edited February 23, 2018 by M Helsdon 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M Helsdon Posted February 23, 2018 Share Posted February 23, 2018 (edited) Page 154: map: date of Four Arrows of Light obscured by place symbol. Page 154: not clear what the arrows heading west from Carmania dated 1200 and 1215 refer to. Resume at Page 155 Page 160: THIS DRAWING IS TAKEN – should be - This drawing is taken Page 161: map dates Sky Burn to 1277, but it lasts 1277-1279 Page 161: map says Sky Burn – should be - Skyburn Page 161: Moon Burn on map but Moonburn on page 15 (and in GtG) Page 161: Pure-Horse People – on map but should be – Pure Horse People Page 163: was taken to the presence – might be - was taken into the presence Page 163: The entire Wane was marked by war in this sector – might be - The entire Wane was marked by war in this region Page 163: (2/12) – ST date? Page 163 They had been wandering south through Jarst and Garsting wreaking havoc upon land and spirits, and defeated several terrible armies which attempted to fight him – should be - They had been wandering south through Jarst and Garsting wreaking havoc upon land and spirits, and defeated several terrible armies which attempted to fight them Page 163: exile, then began – should be - exile, and then began Page 163: Hero, was one of the allies – should be - Hero was one of the allies Page 164: the Blood Kings mentioned above – might be - the Blood Kings mentioned before Page 164: Char-un Kahn – should be - Char-un Khan Page 164: 1/49 – ST date? Page 164: the dwarfs – the dwarves [General comment made before] Page 164: In 2/29 (1330) trouble broke out – as paragraph start should be indented Page 165: difficult to correlate the dates in the west of the map with the text. The arrow from the Sweet Sea is labelled 1332 but page 166 says: In 2/25 (1326) Bindle, aided by other Sweet Sea allies and the Char-un tribes, went to war against the Empire Char-un invasion is labelled 1326 but page 166 says: In 2/30 (1331), the Char-un changed sides and the Bindle army was defeated in two successive battles. Fall of Worian is dated 1313 but not mentioned in text? Page 167: She prepared the cities’ grounds herself – should be - She prepared the city’s grounds herself Page 167: At the far side mounted a war unicorn – should be - At the far side she mounted a war unicorn Page 167: burst brilliant – might be - burst brilliantly Page 167: surrendered to the daughter – might be - surrendered to the Daughter Page 167: Iphigios, came to the city – which city? Suggest should be - Iphigios, came to Jillaro Page 167: so called – should be – so-called Page 167: warrior women, wives, or people who honor the arts – should be - warrior women, wives, and people who honor the arts Page 168: Hwarin-Ong – should be - Hwarin-ony [May have detected this in 2016] Page 169: In 3/33 (1388), Sylilan refugees formed an army which reinforced Alkoth – map on page 168 has the battle marked as 1389 Page 169: In 3/42 (1397), a large army marched north from Sylila to relieve the city of Alkoth – map on page 168 has the battle marked as 1395 Page 170: demi-god – should be – demigod Page 170: over a hell – might be - over a Hell Page 170: Lunar front – might be - Lunar frontier Page 171: Forantin – this state is present on the map but not mentioned in the text. Page 171: Map: Sheng Seleris on Moon 1419. Text (page 173) suggests 1448. Page 171: Kitor (and battle there) should be on the map? Page 171: Karantes on map but battle there not shown. Page 172: God-Learning – should be – God Learning Page 172: In 4/14 (1423) – map says 1443 Page 172: Sylila sent a secret army into Alkoth – should probably be - Sylila sent a secret army into Henjarl Page 172: Lunar refugees to concentrate – might be - Lunar refugees to congregate Page 173: In 4/34 (1442) trouble fell first amid the very heart of Peloria when Sheng Seleris revealed the power which he had stolen from the Emperor in their wrestling match of 3/34 (1389), 54 years earlier – no, 1442 – 1389 is 53. Dates suspect? Page 173: of his path on the mortal world – might be - of his path in the mortal world Page 173: God King – might be - God-King [General comment] Page 173: ravenkaaz – should be in italics? Page 173: demons of hell – might be - demons of Hell Page 174: expectations of rewards – might be - expectation of rewards Page 174: All the acknowledged – should be - All the people acknowledged Page 174: In 4/54 (1463), imperial troops slaughtered the nomads at Yuthuppa – map on page 171 says 1462 Page 175: who grazed their stock – might be - who grazed their herds Page 175: villagers and the nomad overlords – might be - villagers and their nomad overlords Page 176: During the early Wane, the Provinces (Vanch, Imther, Holay, Saird) – Saird is not a province at this time. Might read: During the early Wane, the Provinces (Vanch, Imther, and Holay) Page 177: eighteen years ago – suggest - eighteen years before Page 177: She turned right back – might read better as - She returned Page 177: the earth-goddess – should be - the Earth-goddess Page 177: through the countryside of Sylila – suggest - throughout the countryside of Sylila Page 178: future sultanate – should be – future satrapy Page 178: died in the success – might be – died in the process – or – died in the enterprise Page 178: She danced for it – should be - She danced for her Page 178: In hell – might be - In Hell [General comment] Page 178: dawn of time – should be - dawn of Time Page 178: power and making her birth easy and light – should be - power to make her birth easy and light Page 179: beginning of time – should be - beginning of Time Page 179: The Imperial Army of the South was east – should be - The Imperial Army of the South was sent east Page 179: Syndic’s ban – should be - Syndic’s Ban Page 180: Syndics Ban – should be – Syndic’s Ban [may have been reported in 2016] Page 180: The effects varied – suggest - The results varied Page 180: The cause for the Syndic’s Ban’s lifting – reads oddly, suggest - The cause of the lifting of the Syndic’s Ban Page 180: Closing of the seas – should be - Closing of the Seas [may have reported this in 2016] Page 180: side effect – should be – side-effect Page 182: settled further in the Redlands – should be - settled further into the Redlands Page 182: no virulent rebellion quelled on the interior – quelled means ‘put down’ so the sentence doesn’t make sense. Suggest: no virulent rebellion simmered in the interior – or - no virulent rebellion festered in the interior Page 182: even though the formality and ritual combat often went on for hours or days before any blood was shed – should be - even though the formality and ritual combat often goes on for hours or days before any blood is shed. Page 182: Much deadlier were the “secret games.” Again, the imperial nobility were the targets of these contests. The most secret magical agents were used, although cruder methods (such as hiring Harrek the Berserk) were occasionally used – should be - Much deadlier are the “secret games.” Again, the imperial nobility are the targets of these contests. The most secret magical agents are used, although cruder methods (such as hiring Harrek the Berserk) are occasionally used Systemic problem: past tense often used for ongoing actions. Comment stands for the rest of this page where tense swings between past and present. Page 182: up to 85% - jarring, suggest: up to four fifths [not quite the same, but less ‘modern’] Page 182: since it interfered with the nobles only if the Emperor’s taxes were ever interfered with – suggest - since it interfered with the nobles only if the Emperor’s taxes were ever obstructed Page 183: but Eel-ariash proved – should be - but the Eel-ariash proved Page 183: He spent 6/23 – ST year? Page 183: was performed at Sacred Time – should be - was performed at the Sacred Time Page 184: the Red Emperor reminded that – should be - the Red Emperor reminded them that Page 184: Subsequently there had been some unrest – should be - Previously there had been some unrest Page 185: (in 7/17), and the Bronze, Brass, and Bone Proxies (in 7/20) – ST dates? Edited February 23, 2018 by M Helsdon 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M Helsdon Posted February 24, 2018 Share Posted February 24, 2018 (edited) As a general comment I would again note that the map keys and many of the notes and dates are unreadable unless enlarged. In a printed book they will be too tiny to read. Regret having to report this but the tint (or taint) of background color is contributing to eyestrain. It’s trendy for layouts to include background color, but would request that in future, color might be restricted to illustrations, maps, and borders. May be okay when printed, but on a screen… Page 1: IN 1966, GLORANTHA FIRST BURST – no other chapter begins in this form. Suggest - In 1966, Glorantha first burst Page 1: sable antelope, and even rhinos – might be - sable antelopes, and even rhinos [the usage of a plural for antelope varies in the real world...] Page 1: founding and going until the early Hero War – might be - founding up until the early Hero War Page 1: that served Prince Argrath – should be - that serve Prince Argrath Page 3: god of winter – might be - God of Winter Page 6: by Brithini – might be - by the Brithini Page 6: loyal to the Red Empire – should be - loyal to the Red Emperor - or - loyal to the Lunar Empire Page 7: it forms the mighty Poralistor River – might be - it flows the mighty Poralistor River Page 7: the Mother of the Hsunchen, - the savage Animal Tribes, and the dedicated supporter – should be - the Mother of the Hsunchen - the savage Animal Tribes - and the dedicated supporter Page 7: Pamaltela – subsection title is the wrong size. The font should be same size at that used for Genertela on page 3. At present, it is the same size as the subsection headers of the Land Goddesses. Page 130: helping the grandmothers unselfishly – should be - helping the Grandmothers unselfishly Page 130: of his knowledge and endurance – might be - of his or her knowledge and endurance Page 131: land of the dead – should be - Land of the Dead Page 131: goddess of Nature – might be - Goddess of Nature Page 133: The world of Glorantha is 1627 – some chapters refer to events after this date. Page 133: after a great and timeless darkness – might be - after a great and timeless Darkness Page 133: first sunrise – might be - first Sunrise Page 133: elements blundered – might be - Elements blundered Page 134: The more important of those who did are outlined in this book – might be - The more important of those who did were outlined earlier in this book Page 134: ./l/w/1614 – should be Runes followed by year. Page 134: Events of the goddess’ lifetime – should be - Events of the Goddess’ lifetime Page 134: explained below – should be – explained on the next page Page 135: One Day on Glorantha is the time needed for the sun to traverse the sky from east to west. One night is the time needed for the sun to traverse the Underworld from west to east again – suggest - One Day on Glorantha is the time needed for the Sun to traverse the sky from east to west. One night is the time needed for the Sun to traverse the Underworld from west to east again Page 135: aligned with an elemental Rune – might be - aligned with an Elemental Rune Page 137: The years following the first sunrise – suggest - The years following the first Sunrise Page 137: Four primary cultures survived the Darkness to establish dominant cultures – suggest - Four primary human cultures survived the Darkness to establish dominant cultures Page 137: even before time began – should be - even before Time began Page 137: Central Peloria – should be - Central Genertela [Have previously identified this, but now offer a solution] Page 139: liberated from another stage of consciousness – might be - liberated to another stage of consciousness – perhaps - liberated to another level of consciousness Page 139: god of light – might be – God of Light Page 140: tradition for mistrusting knights – might be - tradition of mistrusting knights Page 141: They achieved special freedom – might be - They achieved special freedoms Page 141: and Brithos disappeared also – suggest - and Brithos also disappeared Page 143: The city-states squabbled – might be - The city-states of Ralios squabbled Page 143: herself the great piece of earth – might be - herself a great piece of earth Page 147: This section – suggest – This chapter Page 147: hundreds of kilometers away – unit usage [commented upon before] Page 148: Lady of the Wild – might be - Lady of the Wilds Page 149: some other titles – where are the others? Perhaps should read – some titles Page 149: The Red Goddess founded the Lunar religion, a strange mixture of mysticism and practical magic, of barbaric cruelty and dignified beauty, of freedom and of tyranny – would a Lunar writer call their own religion strange, barbaric and tyrannical? Suggest - The Red Goddess founded the Lunar religion, an extraordinary mixture of mysticism and practical magic, of exacting cruelty and dignified beauty, of freedom and of compulsion. Page 149: she embraces – might be - She embraces [See also comment on ‘her’ and ‘Her’. Usage varies] Page 149: However, other beliefs that shared many of the same characteristics (most specifically the extraordinary state of mind that fundamentally transforms the individual): Umbarism – missing text? This sentence doesn’t make sense. Suggest: However, other beliefs that shared many of the same characteristics (most specifically the extraordinary state of mind that fundamentally transforms the individual) are: Umbarism Page 149: In the Third Age, Illumination is most prevalent within the Lunar Empire, where the philosophy is widespread among worshipers of the Red Goddess and the Seven – more missing text. Page 151: living goddess of Love and War – might be - living Goddess of Love and War Page 153: It includes a fragmentary codicil written that could not have been written before 8/2 (1627) – should be - It includes a fragmentary codicil that could not have been written before 8/2 (1627) Page 153: 1220 (0/0) – suggest – The year 1220 (0/0) Page 155: the Carmanian War God (Humakt) – should be - the Carmanian War God, Humakt, Page 155: harassment and plain desire – should be - harassment and a plain desire Page 155: In 0/8 – ST date? Page 155: 0/10 – ST date? Page 155: Goddess’s Mothers – should be - Goddess’ Mothers [Usage inconsistent] Page 156: She came riding atop the demon – paragraph start should be indented. Text box seems to be in the wrong place. Page 156: to intercept at Raibanth – should be - to intercept Her at Raibanth [Note: when referring to the goddess sometimes she is ‘Her’ and sometimes ‘her’. Usage should be consistent]. Page 157: When copied the pdf text has the following, but the text in blue is not visible on the page! On the day before the Lunar scouts encountered the Carmanian outposts, the monstrous Cacodemon was sent by the Red Goddess against the Carmanian priests. The Chaos demon and his allies were driven off by a small deity from Ssar On Gror, who was born of Darkness and had the shape of a giant scorpion Page 158: but enemy superiority – might be – but the superiority of the enemy Page 158: Dark Sides – might be – Dark Aspects Page 158: into the Surface World – might be - onto the Surface World Page 159: itself joined – might be - itself joined in Page 159: A year into the fight, the Red Emperor appeared for the first time – but earlier it states Doskalos the Sword in the Eye was there already, and page 161 tells us he was the Red Emperor. Suggest this might read - A year into the fight, Doskalos was revealed to be the Red Emperor for the first time Page 159: The Hidden Castles were magical places – should be - The Hidden Castles are magical places Page 159: The inhabitants were evidently immortal to a “natural” death, or else were extremely long-lived. They were generally of considerable power, but seemed lacking in ambition or ability to expand far beyond their own flickering properties. Nonetheless, they were unusually good-natured if unprovoked, and it was easy to maintain friendly relations with them, whether the friends, who occasionally offered sacrifices as well, were human, troll, Aldryami or Mostali – should read - The inhabitants are evidently immortal to a “natural” death, or else are extremely long-lived. They are generally of considerable power, but seemed lacking in ambition or ability to expand far beyond their own flickering properties. Nonetheless, they are unusually good-natured if unprovoked, and it is easy to maintain friendly relations with them, whether the friends, who occasionally offered sacrifices as well, were human, troll, Aldryami or Mostali. Page 159: The most famous images depicting this quest is a set of seven plates – suggest this be removed as the plates are not shown here (they were, when it was originally published in WF). Resume at page 128 [Am reading chapters and sections mostly in reverse order] Edited February 24, 2018 by M Helsdon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Helm Posted February 24, 2018 Share Posted February 24, 2018 44: "He is one of the Companions of Argrath" is redundant in a sidebar titled "Companions of Argrath". 44: "climb primeval Spike" should be "climb the primeval Spike" (?) 25 (two instances), 32, 46: "featherd" should be "feathered" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M Helsdon Posted February 25, 2018 Share Posted February 25, 2018 (edited) A number of systemic problems are apparent: Changes in tense between past and present when in many cases, as an in-world Gloranthan document, things should be in the present tense, unless they occurred only in the past. Capitalization of He, She, Him, Her, His etc. when referring to a major deity. In general, I believe the Lunar document about the Lunar gods should always give a capital letter to any refences to the Red Goddess. In the Theogony, probably not. Capitalization of classes of things (usually deities or pantheons) varies. I am attempting to identify instances that should conform to the most common usage. Page 6: Earth goddesses – should be - Earth Goddesses [As per usage on this page and elsewhere] Page 20: Cosmic Court – should be – Celestial Court Page 75: air gods – should be – Air Gods [as per usage elsewhere] Page 78: god of Death – should be – God of Death [as per usage elsewhere] Page 87: Earth goddesses – should be - Earth Goddesses [As per usage on this page and elsewhere] Page 93: page number covers a name on the map. Suggest the page number be removed. Page 94: sea god – should be – Sea God [as per usage elsewhere] Page 95: even if individuals Fire Gods – should be - even if individual Fire Gods Page 97: Thus, the sky was separated from the earth forever – might be - Thus, the Sky was separated from the Earth forever Page 97: side effects – might be – side-effects Page 97: above the earth – might be - above the Earth Page 97: sky was ripped from the earth – might be - Sky was ripped from the Earth Page 97: luxates – might be in italics; ditto page 98 Page 97: suffered the least for it – possibly - suffered the least from it Page 98: star-worshippers – should be - Star-worshippers Page 99: where dwell the stars and planets which is touched by dark Night – should be - where dwell the stars and planets which are touched by dark Night Page 99: the Give of Life and Death – should be - the Giver of Life and Death Page 99: and Lord of the Four Quarters – should be - Lord of the Four Quarters Page 99: Cosmic Court – should be – Celestial Court [Also affects the index…] Page 99: Yelm arranged the world to be its good way – might be - Yelm arranged the world to be in its good way [Can’t work out what this is intending to say] Page 99: it for Yelm’s return – suggest - it for his return Page 99: half of his time in the sky and half in the Underworld – suggest - half of his time in the Sky and half in the Underworld Page 100: sometimes received a single item which gave them specific powers – should be - sometimes receive a single item which give them specific powers. Page 100: This institutes a strict aristocracy with great command over the followers – might be - This institutes a strict aristocracy with great command over the commoners Page 100: stock of followers – suggest - stock of subjects Page 100 : God King – might be - God-King [General comment] Page 100: imperial leadership of the king – should be - imperial leadership of the Emperor Page 100: didn’t allow – should be – did not allow [More formal] Page 100: In Kralorela, the sun disk – should be - In Kralorela, the Sun Disk [as per usage elsewhere] Page 100: The view is not without reasoning – might be - This view is not without reasoning Page 100: is called Sunstop – should be - is called the Sunstop Page 102: costing him some of himself – might be - costing him something of himself Page 102: mounted their horses – might be - mounted their chariots Page 103: loaded them with goods – should be - and loaded them with goods – or - loading them with goods Page 104: caress of the earth – might be - caress of the Earth Page 104: are the known fires of the earth – should be - are the known as the fires of the earth – and perhaps - are the known as the Fires of the Earth Page 105: Oakfed is the last Lowfire – should be - Oakfed is the last Lowfire Page 106: upon the ground and placed his hands on the sky – suggest more mythic to say - upon the Earth and placed his hands on the Sky Page 106: lands of the dead – might be - Lands of the Dead Page 108: middle air – should be – Middle Air [As per usage elsewhere] Page 108: wastelands of Genertela – might be - Wastelands of Genertela Page 108: vegetation of the earth – might be - vegetation of the Earth Page 108: them to hell – should be - them to Hell Page 108: man to see – suggest - man to perceive Page 109: Orlanth survives Vadrus’ rampage – might be - Orlanth survived Vadrus’ rampage Page 109: about 850 – might be - about 850 ST Page 109: From this illicit union – should be - From these illicit unions Page 109: the Storm Gods in the Golden Age – might be intentional, the comment is questioning whether there were 'hill-loving humans who worshipped the Storm Gods in the Golden Age'. Might be - the Storm Gods in the Storm Age Page 109: prophet god – might be – prophet-god Page 109: Vadrudings – earlier usage on this page is - Vadrudi Page 109: face of the earth and the sky – suggest should be - face of the Earth and the Sky Page 109: places of the air – might be - places of the Air Page 110: followers if they need it – might be - followers if they deserve it Page 110: Kagan Tor – should be – Kargan Tor Page 111: It is critically important to understand – as start of a paragraph should be indented Page 111: different gods with competing priesthoods – suggest - different deities with competing priesthoods Page 111: holy days – should be – Holy Days Page 112: His attributes are primarily atmospheric phenomena such as cloud, wind, and the thunderbolt. His interests are primarily fertility and life-oriented – suggest - His attributes are primarily atmospheric phenomena such as cloud, wind, and the thunderbolt. His interests are principally fertility and life-oriented Page 112: his many lovers – suggest - his many paramours Page 112: Orlanth’s myths strongly defined the Hero Wars – should be - Orlanth’s myths strongly define the Hero Wars Page 112: The third, the Great Quest, shows his highest achievements; attempting to meet his greatest responsibilities – the third with a heading is Orlanth’s Wooing of Ernalda. The fourth, The Lightbringers’ Quest, has no heading. The sentence needs rewriting, and the Lightbringers’ Quest requires a header. Page 112: in their pillage – might be - in their pillaging Page 113: Kolat was unwavering – reads as though it is the start of a new paragraph and the start should be indented Page 113: Orlanth also had a famous foe in his kinsman Thryk – start of a paragraph? Page 113: who is often called Winter Giant – should be - who is often called the Winter Giant Page 113: kinstrife – should be in italics? Page 113: Splendourbread – should be Splendorbread [as per American spelling?] Page 113: Splendourbread and drinking Soma – Soma and Splendourbread should be in italics? Page 113: rain god – might be – Rain God Page 115: and/or his son – clumsy, suggest: or his son, or both father and son Page 115: Light gods and the troll and Darkness Gods – should perhaps be - Light Gods and the troll and Darkness Gods Page 115: with roarers roaring – might be - with roarer roaring [Only one bullroarer was previously mentioned] Page 115: missing gap between the lines: Are you wise enough to see?” Orlanth: “I see many things: Each thing you give me Page 116: and took oaths to the other – should be - and took oaths each to the other Page 116: Lightbringers’ Quest missing a heading – as noted above. Page 116: worked their-way – should be - worked their way Page 117: gods of time – might be - gods of Time – or - Gods of Time Page 118: The Theyalans say – this term is not explained in the book. See also use of Theyalan Unity on page 49. Theyalans also used on page 92. Need to state early on that this name was given to the Orlanthi by the God Learners and is taken from their name for the goddess of the Dawn, Theya. Page 118: his owner’s wife – might be – his captor’s wife - or - his lord’s wife Page 119: Found Child – (twice) is Foundchild elsewhere. Also affects index. [Sure I’ve reported this before] Page 119: and was considered – might be - and is considered Page 119: and who is invoked – should be – and is invoked Page 120: god of Disorder – might be - God of Disorder Page 120: god of Motion – might be - God of Motion Page 120: The place was called Larnste’s Footprint, in the Holy Country – should be - The place is called Larnste’s Footprint, in the Holy Country. Page 120: Kajabor is another major enemy in this age. Kajabor is mistakenly called ‘Underworld’ in some older documents – should be - Kajabor is another major enemy in this age. Kajabor is mistakenly called ‘the Devil’ in some older documents Page 122: Earth god – should be - Earth God [As per usage elsewhere] Page 122: ranking spirit – might be – ranking god – or – ranking deity Page 122: Seolinthur, river god for Genert’s realm – should be - Seolinthur, the river god of Genert’s realm Page 123: The struggles were rarely so successful – might be - Their struggles were rarely so successful Page 123: fell from the sky – might be - fell from the Sky Page 123: Ragnaglar was the brother of Orlanth, Humakt, and Storm Bull – but page 120 says - Ragnaglar, whom some call kinsman to Storm Bull – As this chapter purports to have been written by an in-world author, it should express the same uncertainties. Page 123: In recent times Ragnaglar survives as only a nursery tale, for he was slain by Storm Bull – might be - In Time Ragnaglar survives as only a nursery tale, for he was slain by Storm Bull Page 125: in to the torn fabric of the world – should be - into the torn fabric of the world Page 126: The knowledge god instead found the knowledge – suggest - The Knowledge God instead found the wisdom Page 126: the Death/Darkness deity – suggest – the deity of Death and Darkness Page 126: knowledge god – (twice more) suggest - Knowledge God Page 127: in Genertela – should be - in central Genertela [Kralorela is part of Genertela] Page 128: In the Third Age, the Red Goddess woke the cult – might be - In the Third Age, the Red Goddess reawoke the cult Edited February 26, 2018 by M Helsdon 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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