Jump to content
MOB

Tribal Edit Thread for Glorantha Sourcebook

Recommended Posts

5 hours ago, M Helsdon said:

Page 109: the Storm Gods in the Golden Age – might be intentional, but there were no Storm Gods in the Golden Age. Might be -  the Storm Gods in the Storm Age

The Storm Gods appear in the late Golden Age.  As per the Guide

The Late Golden Age begins with the rise of
Umath and the War in the Heavens. It ends
with the Death of Yelm, the First Sunset,
and the Dimming of all Light. Glorantha
grew greatly during the Late Golden Age, as
the strength and power of Umath expanded
the rim of the world deeper into the Void,
claiming new space for the cosmos.

Guide to Glorantha p682

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, metcalph said:

The Storm Gods appear in the late Golden Age.  As per the Guide

Better to make a comment that might be rejected, than not make a comment that might report an error.

And the comment is in the context:

Vadrus was infamous among the Yelm cultists because he was such a determined enemy of the Sky Gods. It was Vadrus who first led Vadrudi armies across the surface of the world to seize wives for themselves. From this illicit union (sic) sprang the first of the hill-loving humans who worshipped the Storm Gods in the Golden Age.

So the comment is questioning whether there were 'hill-loving humans who worshipped the Storm Gods in the Golden Age'. I might have worded it better, but had been working through the document for three hours by the time it was made - will enhance.

Edited by M Helsdon

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This has been mentioned already, but now that I've started reading the book properly, I think it bears repeating. The Dragon Pass map on pp 5-6 is very nice, but it strikes me as far too detailed in this context, and any newcomer to Glorantha will likely be frustrated in trying to work out where on Genertela the various regions described are located.

Can I suggest that this Dragon Pass map be at least partially replaced by a map of Genertela showing the main regions? Perhaps a smalller, less detailed map of Dragon Pass can be retained.

For me, I can understand it fine because I'm more familiar with the overall geography of Genertela. But I'm trying to put myself in the position of much of the target audience, those who are new to Glorantha.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

More problems with tense, and some uncertainty of ‘when’ this document is set.

There will inevitably be comment duplications because of the number of issues found on each pass.

 

Page 44: climb primeval Spike – should be - climb the primeval Spike

Page 60: Empty void – should be - Empty Void [as per page 129]

Page 67: Empty void – should be - Empty Void [as per page 129]

Page 67: Grand Ancestor Dragon – should be - Grand Ancestral Dragon [as per other usage]

Page 68: When meditations were complete – should be - When its meditations were complete

Page 68: geography than creatures – might be - geography than living creatures

Page 68: life span – should be – lifespan

Page 70: Next of the Cosmic Bird – should be - Nest of the Cosmic Bird [scanning error?]

Page 70: the cosmos without giving fairly – should be - the cosmos without, giving fairly

Page 70: creation(s) – clumsy, suggest – creations

Page 70: It is claimed that the secret of the Court’s creation lay in the harmonious juxtaposition of two balanced and harmonious opposites whose mutual existence – might be - It is claimed that the secret of the Court’s creation lay in the concordant juxtaposition of two balanced and harmonious opposites whose mutual existence

Page 71: mindless law – might be - mindless Law

Page 71: Upon this slope grew Aldrya, First Tree – should be - Upon this slope grew Aldrya, the First Tree

Page 71: Glorantha and/or Umath – suggest - Glorantha and Umath

Page 72: local interpretations of this varied – should be - local interpretations of this vary

Page 73: The bowl of heavens – should be -  The bowl of the heavens

Page 73: sky god – should be – Sky God [as per usage elsewhere]

Page 74: The Xeotam Dialogues were popular amongst educated Malkioni in the late Third Age – might be - The Xeotam Dialogues are popular amongst educated Malkioni in the Third Age [Not certain what to do about the ‘late’ as this book is set in ‘1627’]

Page 74: more widely God Learner titles – should be - more widely used God Learner titles

Page 74: Gether (twice) – is Gethor in GtG.

Page 75: immortal Men – might be - Immortal Men – or - immortal men [Probably the former]

Page 75: thus gain Power – should be - thus gaining Power

Page 75: compel the powers of deity – might be - compel the powers of a deity

Page 76: The fiery sun itself – might be - The fiery Sun itself

Page 76: and described in a Third Age Lunar document – might be - and is described in a Third Age Lunar document

Page 76: the later elements – might be - the later Elements

Page 76: Worship of Nakala was as insubstantial as she was, but it was she who was recognized in every shadow – might be -  Worship of Nakala is as insubstantial as she is, but it is she who is recognized in every shadow

Page 76: the court’s greater – should be - the Court’s greater

Page 76: The Father of Demons and The Mother of Space – should be -  The Father of Demons and The Mother of Space

Page 76: Neither of these enjoyed much of a cult, but were more noted – might be - Neither of these enjoy much of a cult, but are more noted

Page 76: His wife was Subere – should be - His wife is Subere

Page 76: who knows all mortal’s crimes and righteous deeds – should be -  who knows all a mortal’s crimes and righteous deeds

Page 78: mentioned elsewhere this issue as one of the Six Earths – should be -  mentioned later as one of the Six Earths

Page 78: the Surface Plane – might be - the Surface World

Page 78: Mallia  was a Death Goddess – should be - Mallia  was a Fertility Goddess [later described as a goddess of birth – I believe canon has shifted since this section was written]

Page 78: She was the Death contact, and though she eventually broke from the alliance she was never free of the taint. Thus, her type of death seems unclean and vile – should now be  - She was the Fertility contact, and though she eventually broke from the alliance she was never free of the taint. Thus, her type of life seems unclean and vile

Page 78: map cropped on the left – Gates of Dusk ‘G’ is cropped.

Page 79: Bimbaros  was called Porter to Hell in Lunar documents – should be - Bimbaros is called Porter to Hell in Lunar documents

Page 79: sky’s zenith – should be - Sky’s zenith

Page 79: Only Old One  is the son – might be - Only Old One  was the son

Page 80: Sea God and a Darkness goddess – should be - Sea God and a Darkness Goddess

Page 80: and her cult manifested itself – should be - and her cult manifests itself

Page 80: They also worshipped most of the above. Additionally, the deities below could be worshipped by non-trolls, but were primarily popular with the Children of Darkness – should be - They also worship most of the above. Additionally, the deities below can be worshipped by non-trolls, but are primarily popular with the Children of Darkness

Page 80: When the Yelm came – should be - When Yelm came

Page 80: Xiola Umbar  was a goddess of kindness and, as such, a stranger among the trolls. She is the goddess who comforts those lost in the darkness, and who gives solace to the weak and helpless. Among trolls, her priestesses cared for the trollkin, and many tales mention her as aiding heroes or other souls lost in Hell – should be - Xiola Umbar  is a goddess of kindness and, as such, a stranger among the trolls. She is the goddess who comforts those lost in the darkness, and who gives solace to the weak and helpless. Among trolls, her priestesses care for the trollkin, and many tales mention her as aiding heroes or other souls lost in Hell.

Page 81: and is the Goddess of Oaths – should be -  and she is the Goddess of Oaths

Page 81: page number detracts from the diagram.

Page 81: suggest: Sramak  or Sramake is the hermaphrodite of the trio. He was the first-born, and thus had the most potential. The two who followed were but dull echoes of her internal potentials, but they in turn were better developed in more subtle ways. He is sometimes called the Primeval Ocean. One of her nicknames is “One Water.” He is sometimes called the most mundane of the trio, consisting of the very water and blood of the world. She is an abstraction without personification. He is the great water upon which the earth floats and which separates Earth from the Underworld. She is sometimes called the Waters Beneath the Earth. [Consistent with later usage of Androgeus. It seems odd to identify a deity as a hermaphrodite and then call it ‘He’]

Page 83: The third son  is called the Homeward Ocean – should be -  The third son  is called the Homeward Ocean

Page 83: He was twisted and thrown, but held – might be -  He was twisted and thrown, but held on

Page 83: sea temples – might be -  Sea temples

Page 83: he is now known as the god of rain, and he is known as a carrier of the wealth and richness from his parents – suggest -  he is now known as the god of rain, and is known as a carrier of the wealth and richness from his parents

Page 83: Sea Elves or sea elves? Both used on this page.

Page 83: Tholaina, the Queen of Beasts – should be -  Tholaina, the Queen of Beasts

Page 84: With a conquered sky spirit – might be -  With a conquered Sky spirit – or -  With a conquered Sky Spirit

Page 84: who is Fish Father – should be -  who is the Fish Father

Page 84: The Manthie is a general term – should be - Manthie is a general term

Page 84: there are three of them in the first generation – should be - there were three of them in the first generation

Page 84: lesser races (Triolini) – suggest - lesser races, the Triolini,

Page 84: Rune of Change/Motion – suggest -  Rune of Change and Motion

Page 85: birth of earth and sky – should be - birth of Earth and Sky

Page 85: anyone to the Otherworld – might be - anyone to the Underworld

Page 85: he is most feared – should be -  he is the most feared

Page 85: She is a daughter of Darkness and waters – might be - She is a daughter of Darkness and Waters

Page 85: killed and fell to the earth – might be - killed and fell to the Earth

Page 85: wrestling with a great Dragon – should be - wrestling with a great Sea Dragon

Page 86: discovered various aspect of ships – should be - discovered various aspects of ships

General: war god – should be -War God [usage varies]

Page 86: he rediscovered many of the arts of the Diros cult, and make ships to sail the seas – should be - he rediscovered many of the arts of the Diros cult, and how to make ships to sail the seas

Page 85-86: these pages move from the Manthie to sailor cults with no new heading. Suggest there should be header – Seafarer Cults or Sailor Cults – above the text - Waertag was the first to make a boat

Page 87: Earth worshippers – usual usage is -  Earth-worshippers

Page 87: world-wide – should be – worldwide

Page 87 - upon the forms and powers – might be - upon the Forms and Powers

Page 87: etiological – more common form, and closer to the original Greek is aetiological [Doctrine of causation – but how many readers will know what the word means? Suggest using Doctrine of Causation instead]

Page 87: All the elements – might be -  All the Elements

Page 87: Animal Rune – should be – Beast Rune

Page 87: When the elemental deities and power gods – should be - When the Elemental deities and Power gods

Page 87: borders of the elements – might be -  borders of the Elements

Page 87: between elements – might be - between Elements

Page 89: part of the earth – might be -  part of the Earth

Page 89: much of the earth – might be -  much of the Earth

Page 89: within her Grandmother – Asrelia has no grandmother (unless this the obscure Ga) and so this should be - within her Mother

Page 89: in God Time – might be -  in the God Time

Page 89: Throughout Time and legends these sisters have maintained a close relationship – reads as though it might be a separate paragraph and should be indented?

Page 90: Earth mother – should be - Earth Mother [as per usage elsewhere]

Page 90: She danced upon the earth – might be -  She danced upon the Earth

Page 90: queen of the gods – might be -  Queen of the Gods

Page 92: Each region of the world has its own special grain or land goddess. Most are daughters of Gata and Genert – might be - Each region of Genertela has its own special grain or land goddess. Most are daughters of Gata and Genert [Pamaltela has its own equivalents?]

Page 92: Minlister – otherwise not mentioned. Might be – Minlister, God of Brewing

Page 92: Daruda the first Dragon Empire – should be -  Daruda the first Dragon Emperor

Page 92: together gave birth – should be -  together they gave birth

General: land goddess, land goddesses – might be – Land Goddess, Land Goddesses [usage varies]

Page 93: but receded into the background in the Third Age – suggest - but has receded into the background in the Third Age.

General: Dragon’s Nest or Dragons’ Nest?

Dragon’s Nest – map on page 93

Dragons’ Nest – page 92, page 94, page 129

Page 94: king of the gods – should be – King of the Gods [as per usage elsewhere in document]

Page 94: mother of the newtlings – might be -  Mother of the Newtlings

General: worshiped and worshipped used throughout the document: worshiped 27 times; worshipped 38 times. Recommend worshipped should be used throughout.

Page 94: intrinsically creepy to mankind – suggest -  intrinsically unsettling to mankind

Page 94:  . When all the universe was frozen or dead, High King Elf came to the rescue of the world’s forests – should be -  . When all the universe was frozen or dead, High King Elf came to the rescue of the world’s forests – or else this is a new paragraph and should not have a bullet point.

Page 137: spirit-worshippers – should be -  Spirit-worshippers

Page 172: god-worshipping – should be - God-worshipping

Edited by M Helsdon

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Page 68: There’s a larger problem with:

Mallia  was a Death Goddess captured and enslaved by Chaos (or who freely joined, depending on the version being told). As one of the Unholy Trio, she was part of the blasphemous ritual made by Ragnaglar, Thed, and some others which allowed Chaos into the world. She was the Death contact, and though she eventually broke from the alliance she was never free of the taint. Thus, her type of death seems unclean and vile, often full of needless suffering which cannot be abated except by magic. She is still worshipped by the unclean broos, and she is dependent upon them for her survival as a being of power. She also receives propitiatory worship from much of the rest of the world, but this is much less than that of the broos.

 

I believe this might read:

Mallia was a healing goddess born of Darkness, captured and enslaved by Chaos (or who freely joined, depending on the version being told). As one of the Unholy Trio, she was part of the blasphemous ritual made by Ragnaglar, Thed, and some others which allowed Chaos into the world. She was the Fertility contact, and though she eventually broke from the alliance she was never free of the taint, corrupted to become an agent of Death. Now, her type of living death seems unclean and vile, often full of needless suffering which cannot be abated except by magic. She is still worshipped by the unclean broos, and she is dependent upon them for her survival as a being of power. She also receives propitiatory worship from much of the rest of the world, but this is much less than that of the broos.

Edited by M Helsdon
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Probably more comment duplications....

Page 37: emperor Yelm – should be - Emperor Yelm

Page 37: Gagix Two-Barb - Gagix Two-barb on page 42. Which is correct? [Probably reported before]

Page 37: devouring scorpions – should be - devouring scorpion men [Probably reported before]

Page 37: and their factions thrown out of many cities – should be - and their faction thrown out of many cities

Page 37: Grazeland Horse Army to help them – might be - Grazeland Horse Army to help her

Page 37: Stinking Woods – should be - Stinking Forest [Variant names will be confusing for newcomers]

Page 37: and insects – might be - and giant insects

Page 38: led by Greymane – only mentioned on this page. Suggest - led by the barbarian Warlord Greymane

Page 38: The Lunar lifted their useless siege – should be - The Lunars lifted their useless siege

Page 39: larger gap than usual below the header DRAGONRISE

Page 39: seemed timed to some other, invisible sun – might be - seemed tied to some other, invisible sun

Page 39: In Kethaela, King Broyan - reads as the start of a new paragraph and should be indented.

Page 39: Belvani to retreat to Pavis – suggest - Belvani to take refuge in Pavis

Page 40: call heaven down to earth – might be - call Heaven down to Earth

Page 40: would easily have recognized – suggest - would easily recognize

Page 40: nomads invaded the eastern satrapies – should be - nomads had invaded the eastern satrapies

Page 40: her breaking voice – suggest - her intermittent voice

Page 40: always at its brightest full stage – should be - always at its brightest full phase [Believe have made this comment before]

Page 40: folks of Orlanth’s Ring – should be - folk of Orlanth’s Ring – or - bearers of Orlanth’s Ring

Page 40: the denizens of the City – not clear (perhaps intentionally) whether this is the temple complex or the constellation, the Celestial City. Suggest - the denizens of the Celestial City

Page 40: where once stood the New Lunar Temple – might be - where once had stood the New Lunar Temple

Page 41: Kallyr called for an assembly of all leaders at the city of Boldhome – should be - Kallyr called for an assembly of all Sartarite leaders at the city of Boldhome

Page 41: Kallyr Starbrow was named Prince and warlord – should be - Kallyr Starbrow was named Prince and Warlord [as per other usage]

Page 41: Kheldon Ring – suggest - Kheldon tribal Ring

Page 42: The Sartarite army was smaller- reads as the start of a new paragraph and should be indented.

Page 43: had conquered Oraya satrapy – might be - had conquered the Oraya satrapy

Page 43: Argrath alone among the contestants – suggest - Argrath alone among the contenders [‘contestants’ used twice in close proximity]

Page 43: and plundered the folks there – might be - and plundered the folk there

Page 43: to Three Step Isles – should be - to the Three Step Isles

Page 43: At Two-Ridge Fort – should be - At Two Ridge Fort

Page 44: He joined Argrath before the Battle of Sword Hill and is one of the Companions – should be - He joined Argrath before the Battle of Sword Hill [We know he’s a Companion from the heading…]

Page 44: He is one of the Companions of Argrath – superfluous statement.

Page 44: He entered Argrath’s service after the Battle of Pennel Ford and is one of the Companions of Argrath – should be - He entered Argrath’s service after the Battle of Pennel Ford [ditto]

Page 44: believed to have taught Argrath draconic secrets. He is one of the Companions of Argrath – should be - believed to have taught Argrath draconic secrets. [ditto]

Page 44: against his fellows in Sun County – should be - against his fellows in Sun County in Prax

Page 44: Count of Sun County in Sartar. He is one of the Companions of Argrath – should be - Count of Sun County in Sartar. [ditto]

Page 44: secrets of life and death. She is one of the Companions of Argrath. – should be - secrets of life and death [ditto]

Page 44: He entered Argrath’s service in 1624 and is one of the Companions of Argrath – should be - He entered Argrath’s service in 1624 [ditto]

Page 45: The holy folks stood – might be - The holy folk stood

Page 45: Onelisin is the daughter – should be - Onelisin was the daughter

Page 45: the First Prince of the land – Saronil was - the Second Prince of the land

Page 45: cyclone upon the man – should be - cyclone upon him

Page 49: beastmen – should be – Beastmen

Page 49: These tree spirits are very much like the dryads of classical Greek mythology – should be – These tree sprits are a lithe and feminine race of embodied plant spirits

Page 49: Their elves and Trees – should be - Their elves and trees – or - Their elves and Great Trees [Believe the latter is more likely]

Page 49: brightening greenery flowers – should be - brightening greenery, flowers

Page 51: It has been generally agreed that the various forms of dragonewt are different stages of development, but this is unproved – and then goes on to say - Dragonewts go through four stages in their life cycle, described below – both statements cannot be valid. I believe the former is a remnant overtaken by subsequent canon, and might be deleted.

Page 52: The appearance of a full priest resembles that of a noble – should be - The appearance of a full priest resembles that of a tailed priest

Page 52: This is a source of consternation to fighters in the area – might be - This is a source of consternation to human fighters

Page 52: who claim monopoly there – should be - who claim a monopoly there [not clear where this market is]

Page 52: Second Council s – should be - Second Councils

Page 52: dragonewts rose from secret – should be - dragonewts rose in secret

Page 53: The Mostali (called dwarfs) – should be - The Mostali (called dwarves) [Believe I’ve reported this as a general error – will ignore other instances throughout this chapter]

Page 54: The Spike is an edifice – should be -  The Spike was an edifice

Page 54: depths of the earth and piercing the sky. Under the earth – should be - depths of the Earth and piercing the sky. Under the Earth

Page 54: But this withdrawal of Law was no punishment to the outlaws – should be - But this withdrawal of Law was no punishment for the outlaws

Page 54: the groaning sky from its place, thrusting it away from the earth – might be - the groaning Sky from its place, thrusting it away from the Earth

Page 54: Vadrus, a storm god – should be -  Vadrus, a Storm God [as per usage elsewhere]

Page 54: When Death entered the world – start of paragraph, should be indented.

Page 56: Their occupation became to make articles of war. They also developed the skills of using those tools, and so Iron is now also the Mostali god of war – seems to be some missing text. Checking where this material has been previously published, it should read:

With their great skill and magic, the council made the Ninth Container, the Crucible of Iron. Together, they created the Iron Mostali, whose occupation was to make articles of war. They also developed the skills of using those tools, and so Iron is now also the Mostali god of war

Page 56: which are the sources of – should be - which are the source of

Page 56: Goddess of Death within the earth – should be -  Goddess of Death within the Earth

Page 56: Some fell to chaos – should be - Some fell to Chaos

Page 57: races to fight chaos – should be - races to fight Chaos

Page 57: When the sun rose – might be - When the Sun rose

Page 58: their own areas – should be - their own area

Page 58: Types of trolls include the Mistress Race (uzuz), Dark Trolls (uzko), Great Trolls (uzdo), Trollkin (enlo), and Cave Trolls (romal) – suggest - Types of trolls include the Mistress Race, Dark Trolls, Great Trolls, Trollkin, and Cave Trolls [Because the Uz names are given again immediately afterwards]

Page 58: uzuz, uzko, uzdo, enlo and romal should be in italics.

Page 58: tainted by chaos – should be - tainted by Chaos

Page 58: deities of darkness – should be - deities of Darkness

Page 59: The Sazdorf trolls have stated a duplicate – should be - The Sazdorf trolls have stated that a duplicate

Page 59: In their ancestral home, the Mistress Race – start of paragraph, should be indented.

Page 60: the burning sun – should be -  the burning Sun

Page 60: The death of the Sun and the appearance of the trolls– start of paragraph, should be indented.

Page 60: Lesser Dark of the Great Night – should be -  Lesser Darkness of the Great Night

Page 61: Their departure revealed a thinly populated revealed a region thinly populated by indigenous tribes previously enslaved by the nomads – should be -  Their departure revealed a region thinly populated by indigenous tribes previously enslaved by the nomads [Probably reported before]

Page 61: slaughtering as they went – suggest -  slaying as they went

Page 61: in the appearance of trollkin litters – suggest - in the advent of trollkin litters

Page 61: and the powerful army – should be - and their powerful army

Page 61: shameful compromise – should be – a shameful compromise

Page 61: worshipped chaos – should be - worshipped Chaos

Page 61: cleanse a region – might be - cleanse the region

Page 61: arrives on the surface world – should be - arrives on the Surface World

Page 62: broke the demigod’s wounds again – might be - broke the demigod’s wounds open again

Page 62: the foes of chaos – should be - the foes of Chaos

Page 62: and helped conquer the islands – should be - and helped them conquer the islands

Page 62: Karastrand Halftroll was a leader – reads as the start of a new paragraph and should be indented.

Page 63: of the occupation – might be -  of the Occupation

Page 65: exercised tremendous influence – should be - exercise tremendous influence [problem with tense and authorship of the texts]

Page 65: various elemental Runes – should be -  various Elemental Runes

Page 66: Fourth Row: Aether – looks more like Yelm! Suspect caption is in error.

Page 66: Eighth Row: Dame Darkness, encompassing the Father of Demons and the Mother of Space – might be -  Eighth Row: Dame Darkness, encompassing the Father of Demons and the Mother of Space, and surrounded by gods and demons of the Underworld

Page 67: and the natural - called the naturalist viewpoint on page 137. However, as ‘animalist’ is used later on this page, suggest - and the naturalistic animalists – or - and the natural of the animalists

Page 67: origin of the theist universe – might be -  origin of the theistic universe

Page 67: perfect void – might be -  perfect Void

Page 67: The Kralorelan religion – might be - The Kralori religion

Page 67: world through manipulation of Knowledge and Power – might be - world through the manipulation of Knowledge and Power.

Page 67: prime mover – should be – Prime Mover

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

As the Sourcebook is intended as an introductory book, it might be enhanced by the inclusion of a glossary? A glossary would fix some of the reported problems.

 

There’s space on page 213 if the Chaosium dragon were moved to page 219. Not very elegant, but…?

 

Suggest:

 

Animal Nomads: nomads in Prax and the Wastelands, who ride beasts such as impalas, bison, and sable antelopes, and to whom horses are taboo.

Arachne Solara: name given to an otherwise unnamed deity who may be the Goddess of Nature in Glorantha.

Chaos: Glorantha is a fragile bubble of existence in an infinite maelstrom of chaos. In forming, the cosmos emerged from chaos into a state od order. The Gods War weakened the fabric of that order, and readmitted chaos back into the world.

God: entities existing eternally in the God Time. They include great powers such as Orlanth, and less powers such as the gods of cats or sheep. Mortals offer prayers and sacrifices to the gods in exchange for magic.

Dawn: the first rising of the Sun from the Underworld at the culmination of the Lightbringers’ Quest.

Dawn Age: the first five centuries after the Dawn comprise the Dawn or First Age.

Glorantha: a magical world, not a planet floating in space. The Inner World, the world of mortals, is shaped like a huge cube of Earth floating in a limitless sea of water.

God Learners: a very powerful people from the island of Jrustela. They formulated a world-wide view combining all the philosophies they encountered across the world. Their studies permitted them to dominate the coastal lands of Glorantha for much of the Second Age, before nature sprang back and destroyed them.

God Time: the eternal, endless, and reoccurring era of the gods. Mythical events prior to Time were non-sequential and simultaneous actions, not subject to the order of lineal or cyclical time.

Gods Age: another term for the God Time.

Heortling: the Orlanth-worshipping peoples of Sartar and Heortland.

Hsunchen: Eastern term for the tribes of Mesolithic hunter-gatherer beast people. Hsunchen live together with their beast brothers – the animals of their totem – whom they claim as their ancestors and kinfolk.

Krjalki: Western term for non-humans, but also applied to creatures of Chaos.

Orlanth: the chief god of the Heortlings. He destroyed the world by releasing Death, and recreated it anew by leading the Seven Lightbringers to liberate Life and Light from the Underworld.

Pentans: Sun-worshipping horse nomads who rule the grasslands east of the Lunar Empire.

Red Goddess: the goddess of the Red Moon arose into being in Time. She is hated for her embrace of Chaos, and feared for her great power.

Seven Mothers: the secret council who resurrected the Red Goddess. Their cult is now especially powerful at the edges of the Lunar Empire where it provides instructive temples.

Spirit: discorporate entities present in all portions of nature – animals, plants, rocks, winds, fire, soil, water and so on. Some are servants of the gods; more often they are independent and serve only their own needs.

Telmori: at the Dawn, the Telmori were like other Hsunchen tribes, where humans and animals mixed freely. Nysalor blessed the Telmori so that their hides in wolf shape could not be cut, crushed, or mangled by ordinary weapons. This blessing tainted them with Chaos.

Theyalan: name was given by the God Learners to the Orlanthi, taken from their name for the goddess of the Dawn, Theya, because their culture was so important in the Dawn Age.

Time: history in Glorantha is the sum of events occurring since Time began with the first Dawn. Underworld: the dark and dangerous place under the Earth where dead souls go. It is home to demons, shades, and other beings of Darkness.

Wolf Pirates: sea pirates who ravage the coasts of Glorantha during the last decade. They are led by Harrek the Berserk.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Page 9: and broke the Cosmic Compromise that binds the world together – should be -  and breaks the Cosmic Compromise that binds the world together

Page 9: and notated – no annotations, remove. [Suspect I’ve made this comment before]

Page 9: a Dragon that voluntarily remained in this material world – should be - a Dragon who voluntarily remained in this material world

Page 9: The storm god – should be - The Storm God

Page 10: of Dragon power and knowledge – suggest - of Dragonic power and knowledge

Page 10: most in the Stinking Forest – should be -  mostly in the Stinking Forest

Page 10: the Brown Elves covered much of what was later the Bush Range, Grazelands, and Beast Valley – seems incomplete, suggest -  the Brown Elves covered much of what was later the Bush Range, Grazelands, and Beast Valley with forest

Page 11: gorging on the foes – should be -  gorging on the foe

Page 11: and drinking intoxicating drinks – suggest - and quaffing intoxicating drinks

Page 11: creature. Creatures – suggest -  creature. Beastmen

Page 11: Ironhoof was born then – should be - Ironhoof was reborn then [He’s been reincarnated many times]

Page 11: When the Hero Wars period began, the general increase of magical energies seemed to attract the Beastmen from their hidden lairs again, and they could often be seen marching or scouting for any of the major combatants. Mercenary regiments of half-men were often hired, while Ironhoof himself would lead his armies in person where their interests were involved – suggest shift to present tense:

As the Hero Wars begin, the general increase of magical energies seems to attract the Beastmen from their hidden lairs, and they can often be seen marching or scouting for any of the major combatants. Mercenary regiments of half-men are often hired, whilst Ironhoof himself leads his armies in person where their interests are involved.

Page 12: The divine line of Vingkotling kings made their capital there – should be - The divine line of Vingkotling kings made their capital here

Page 13: ingratiating them into his realm – might be - integrating them into his realm

Page 13: to fight the darkness – should be - to fight the Darkness

Page 14: They included the Torkani, Culbrea, Dundealos, Malani, and Balmyr. Other smaller, or less victorious, groups probably existed even then, but we have no record of them – but the Sambari are mentioned a few paragraphs down, and should be included in this list?

Page 14: The tribes that moved into the region were collectively called the Quivini, after the Quivin peaks in their region – suggest - The tribes that moved into the region were collectively called the Quivini, after the Quivin peaks

Page 14: humans to surrender and treat with the Beastfolk fairly. After they surrendered, he was given his arms back – suggest - humans to surrender and treat with the Beastfolk fairly. After they capitulated, he was given his arms back

Page 15: was still forbidden to all humans of Peloria – might be - was still forbidden to all humans

Page 15: Lunar progress halted – might be - Lunar progress southwards halted

Page 17: Shakers Temple – form on page 6 is – Shaker Temple – form on page 16 is -  Shaker’s Temple [Suggest standardize name used]

Page 17: was born 1430 – should be - was born in 1430

Page 17: Verala Tor (born 1544, Feathered Horse Queen from 1565–1582, Queen of Dragon Pass 1579 to 1582).  The daughter of Yoristina and an unknown father, she became Feathered Horse Queen in 1568 – two different dates for becoming FHQ. (And two different dates in this paragraph for becoming QofDP). Should be - Verala Tor (born 1544, Feathered Horse Queen from 1565–1582, Queen of Dragon Pass 1575 to 1582).  The daughter of Yoristina and an unknown father, she became Feathered Horse Queen in 1565

Page 17: from 1625 on) – clumsy. Suggest -  from 1625)

Page 18: Sartar Prince (1592–1620) – should be - Sartar Prince (1492–1520)

Page 18: Moirades Prince of Sartar – should be - Moirades King of Tarsh

Page 18: (1605–       ) – should be - (1605–Present)

Page 19: a leader rose from this cult – suggest - a leader rose in this cult

Page 20: The Puppeteer Troupe was, in peaceful times – should be - The Puppeteer Troupe is, in peaceful times [Whole tense of this paragraph needs to be altered to present tense]

Page 20: In the Lesser Darkness Donandar, - should be - In the Lesser Darkness, Donandar,

Page 22: He ruled Sartar, and conquered Prax and the Holy Country, but lost all three when the Dragon rose – Pharandros didn’t rule any of these places?

Page 22: The princes of Boldhome continued – should be - The Princes of Boldhome continued

Page 22: ancient city of Pavis – suggest - ancient city of Old Pavis [to distinguish the Big Rubble from New Pavis, which is mentioned on this page.]

Page 23: the diagram might include a label identifying the Hon-eel dynasty/Lunar Kings, which starts with Phoronestes

Page 24: two Sartar Kings, Jarolar and Jarosar – same page says Jarosar was killed by Lunar spirits (sent, perhaps by Phargentes?)

Page 27: They decorated the main corridor – should be - They decorate the main corridor

Page 28: Dormal cults, welcomed Sartarite refugees – should be - Dormal cults, and welcomed Sartarite refugees.

Page 28: His secrets were quickly institutionalized – might be - His mysteries were quickly institutionalized

Page 28: seeking to avenge the death of their prince – should be - seeking to avenge the death of their Prince

Page 29: Lunar army – should be – Lunar Army [as per usage on this page. General comment probably made before – a few examples noted below]

Page 30: Moirades died during sexual intercourse during a religious ceremony – might be - Moirades died during sexual intercourse in a religious ceremony – or - Moirades died during sexual intercourse in the course of a religious ceremony

Page 30: Moirades eldest son, Pharandros – should be -  Moirades eldest son, Pharandros

Page 30: Lunar army – (twice) should be – Lunar Army

Page 31: The Empire easily crushed such rebellions – might be - The Empire easily crushed such revolts

Page 31: Lunar army – should be – Lunar Army

Page 31: sought this as fulfillment – should be - sought this as the fulfillment

Page 31: whole following of Urox berserks – might be - whole warband of Urox berserks

Page 31: with chaos headaches – should be - with Chaos headaches

Page 33: and he commanded the Veterans Cavalry – might be - and he had commanded the Veterans Cavalry

Page 33: Fazzur was the prince’s main advisor, and the real ruler of Sartar, as Temertain was unfit for leadership. The Red Emperor sent a spy, Estal Donge, to keep the prince occupied, and she and Fazzur were soon rivals – should be - Fazzur was the Prince’s main advisor, and the real ruler of Sartar, as Temertain was unfit for leadership. The Red Emperor sent a spy, Estal Donge, to keep the Prince occupied, and she and Fazzur were soon rivals.

Page 33: Nochet is diverse and is a microcosm of Glorantha. If the Heortlings of Nochet were a single tribe, they would outnumber any of the tribes of Sartar. Dark trolls brush shoulders with Vadeli sailors. Kralorelans, Seshnelans, Melibites, and even Fonritians have enclaves, with their own temples and shrines – believe this should be ordinary text and not have a bullet point.

Page 34: rebel gods – should be - Rebel Gods

Page 34: Even more problematic, Broyan – should be - Even more problematically, Broyan

Page 34: Fazzur received reinforcements from King Pharandros - reads as the start of a new paragraph and should be indented.

Page 34: Lunar army – should be – Lunar Army

Page 34: As a result of this failure - reads as the start of a new paragraph and should be indented.

Page 35: Lunar army – should be – Lunar Army

Page 35: With Orlanth’s last temple fallen - reads as the start of a new paragraph and should be indented.

Page 144: lowest label on map not readable – seems to say ‘prince’ – looking in the GtG label should be TRADER PRINCES

 

And that concludes my second pass through the 2018 version.

  • Like 2
  • Thanks 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I am informed that the last day for comments on the Sourcebook is tomorrow, the 2nd March.

Today I will attempt to work through at least a chapter again.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Main issues today are systemic:

  • The first instance of a deity’s name in bold in the first few chapters is not always implemented, and in later chapters is replaced by headings. Too late to unify the two variants, so the comments below highlight deviations in the relevant chapters, with easy fixes.
  • Usage of a capital letter when a pantheon is named.

 

Page 16: Lunar pantheon – should be - Lunar Pantheon

Page 67: thwart creation – in original was - thwart Creation

Page 68: lay within the earth – in original was - lay within the Earth

Page 70: the deities of power – should be -  the deities of Power

Page 71: mindless Law – should be - mindless Law [previously reported as a ‘might be’ but now checked against original]

Page 71: There roamed Hykimi – should be - There roamed Hykim – or perhaps - There roamed the Hykimi [the former was used in the original text]

Page 71: The separation of Power from Elements seems to have existed – should be - The separation of Power from the Elements seems to have existed

Page 71: Red Class Tower Joke – should be -  Red Glass Tower Joke [in original text, reported before]

Page 72: The deities of the court were: - start of a new paragraph and should be indented.

Page 72: Goddess of Harmony and Peace; - should be - Goddess of Harmony and Peace,

Page 72: Lady of Trickery and Deceit; - should be - Lady of Trickery and Deceit,

Page 72: Spirit of the elements – should be - Spirit of the Elements

Page 72: The elements also followed a process – should be - The Elements also followed a process

Page 72: In it the elemental deities – should be - In it the Elemental deities

Page 72: These, then, are the ancient deities of the Celestial Court – should be a new paragraph

Page 76: in a Third Age Lunar document – suggest Third Age is superfluous, considering when this document is supposedly written, early in the Hero Wars

Page 76: like The Twins – should be - like the Twins

Page 76: Neither of these enjoyed much of a cult – should be - Neither of these enjoy much of a cult

Page 78: upon the Surface Plane – suggest - upon the Surface World [as per usage elsewhere, Surface Plane not used anywhere else]

Page 78: to an eternal glory of endless fighting – original says - to an eternal glory of endless fighting upon the fringes of the cosmos [which makes sense as they will be fighting against Chaos]

Page 79: Kaldar and Sinjota – should be - Kaldar and Sinjota

Page 79: Sunbiter  is called Deathound as well – should be - Sunbiter  is called Deathhound as well [previously commented on spelling, but original indicates it should be in bold as well]

Page 79: to hide in the underworld – should be - to hide in the Underworld

Page 80: Darkness deities that were popular – should be - Darkness deities that are popular

Page 80: worshipped most of the above – should be - worship most of the above

Page 81: Sramak  or Sramake – should be - Sramak  or Sramake

Page 83: The Ocean of Terror - should be - The Ocean of Terror

Page 83: The Western Ocean – should be – The Western Ocean

Page 84: called Phargon – should be - called Phargon

Page 84: The eldest is Manthi himself – should be - The eldest is Manthi himself

Page 84: Second is Natea – should be - Second is Natea

Page 84: Sshorg is the Prince of the Ocean of Terror – should be - Sshorg is the Prince of the Ocean of Terror

Page 84: Banthe is the Prince of the Western Ocean – should be - Banthe is the Prince of the Western Ocean

Page 84: Lorian is the third son – should be - Lorian is the third son

Page 84: Magasta is the third child – should be - Magasta is the third child

Page 85: Wachaza is half-brother – should be - Wachaza is half-brother

Page 85: The Blue Moon is a secret and mysterious – should be - The Blue Moon is a secret and mysterious

Page 85: can confirm that there should be a header before ‘Waertag was the first to make a boat and take to the sea for life.’ Original header was: The Cults of Sailors

Page 85: Waertag was the first – should be - Waertag was the first

Page 86: Wachaza is the second great cult – should be - Wachaza is the second great cult

Page 86: Dormal is the third sailor cult – should be - Dormal is the third sailor cult

Page 86: Their child was Malkion – might be - Their child was Malkion [at this point the format within Elemental Pantheons changes, so this comment may not be valid]

Page 87: the following Elemental Pantheon chapters have a very different format to the previous two. Probably too late to provide a consistent presentation. So the Deities of the Earth probably can’t follow the same format with the first use of a deity name in bold because headers are used instead…

Page 95: The Celestial pantheon of Sky and Fire – should be - The Celestial Pantheon of Sky and Fire [see usage of Sea Pantheon]

Page 97: Before creation – should be - Before Creation

Page 97: or even Ga – only mention of Ga in the document, suggest it be removed.

Page 100: Orlanthi Air pantheon – should be - Orlanthi Air Pantheon

Page 100: the name used in the western lands – might be - the name used in the Western lands

Page 103: Lightbringers pantheon – should be - Lightbringers Pantheon

Page 106: Orlanth pantheon or the Lightbringers pantheon – should be - Orlanthi Pantheon or the Lightbringers Pantheon

Page 106: Darkness pantheon – should be - Darkness Pantheon

Page 119: Orlanthi pantheon – should be - Orlanthi Pantheon

Page 149: Lunar pantheon – should be - Lunar Pantheon

Page 162: Lunar pantheon – should be - Lunar Pantheon

Page 170: Lunar pantheon – should be - Lunar Pantheon

Back page: Lightbringer and Lunar pantheons – should be - Lightbringer and Lunar Pantheons

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Little free time today.

Page 71: burtae – should be – Burtae [as per every other instance]

General: boggles are mentioned on pages 54 and 56, but never explained. Suggest boggle should be in italics.

Page 56: There’s wasted space (an odd blank space). Could have a filler illustration.

Page 57: Mostal tradition – might be -  Mostali tradition

Page 57: Dwarfs supported the Gbaji experiment – given context should be - Dwarfs supported the Osentalka experiment – or - Dwarfs supported the Nysalor experiment [Nysalor is used later on this page.]

And, that seems an appropriate point to stop.

 

Given the number of typos, errors, and grammatical errors previously reported, there are undoubtedly more. However, the deadline approaches, and having spent thirty or forty hours on the earlier pdf draft in 2016, and roughly the same time in 2018, it becomes a matter of diminishing returns.

 

If Chaosium needs readers and checkers prior to, and after layout, some of us are able and willing to help.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Some more points I've detected while reading the Glorantha Sourcebook. I've tried to avoid listing mistakes already mentioned in other posts, but I cannot guarantee, that I did not miss anything:

 

p.6, Dragon Pass box, beginning on end of left column:
That part of Tarsh closest to Kero Fin refuse to acknowledge the Lunar kings and are called the Tarsh Exiles.
should be:
That part of Tarsh closest to Kero Fin refuses to acknowledge the Lunar kings and its denizens are called the Tarsh Exiles.

 

p.6, Dragon Pass box, right column, second paragraph:
Beast Valley is inhabited by the Beast Men
should be:
Beast Valley is inhabited by the Beastmen

 

p.11, The Beastmen, third paragraph:
but there are many places about the Pass that bears marks of Ironhoof’s deeds.
should be:
but there are many places about the Pass that bear the marks of Ironhoof’s deeds.

 

p.13, right column, third paragraph:
entered the hills with their deaths upon their lips, pen-
etrating the cursed and haunted lands for the first time
should be:
entered the hills with their deaths upon their lips, pene-
trating
the cursed and haunted lands for the first time

 

p.13, The Tournament of the Master of Luck and Death, second last paragraph:
In 1336, Belintar “used up” his body the first time and the first
of the Tournament of the Masters of Luck and Death was
should be either:
In 1336, Belintar “used up” his body the first time and the first
of the Tournaments of the Masters of Luck and Death was
or:
In 1336, Belintar “used up” his body the first time and the first
Tournament
of the Masters of Luck and Death was

 

p.13, last paragraph:
When Belintar’s mortal body expires, the next day
select individuals, chosen by a means known only to the
should be:
When Belintar’s mortal body expires, the next day
selected individuals, chosen by a means known only to the

 

p.15: first paragraph:
had bound the Mad Sultans - several Sultans or just one?

 

p.19, Sartar the Founder, second paragraph:
Sartar’s magic stemmed from his mastery of the Motion Rune, whose attributes are change and growth.
-
shoudn't that be the Movement Rune? That's the rune listed in the Rune chapter.

 

p.22: right column, first paragraph:
from Nochet to Boldhome, carrying goods to and from the Esrolia, Ralios, and the far West.
should be:
from Nochet to Boldhome, carrying goods to and from Esrolia, Ralios, and the far West.

 

p.23:
Is there a reason that the children of Vostor Blacktooth are not listed with their full names (Harsta Orindori and Fazzur Wideread)

 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have re-read the thread and I believe the following were not reported:

p59
“The stone friezes pictured here comes from the notes compiled by the noted cartographer Song of Roses who mapped the Redstone Caverns.”

p66
“Sramake”

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 hours ago, GianniVacca said:

I have re-read the thread and I believe the following were not reported:

p59
“The stone friezes pictured here comes from the notes compiled by the noted cartographer Song of Roses who mapped the Redstone Caverns.”

Well caught, though I believe the deadline is passed.

12 hours ago, GianniVacca said:

p66
“Sramake”

Explained on page 81 as a variant of  Sramak.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Although the deadline has passed already, there are still some points, I would like to list here:

p.57, right column, last paragraph:
In 850 the Nidan Decamony declared it to be a full and compete heresy, and that all such blasphemers would be placed under probation, sanction, and isolation.
should maybe:
In 850 the Nidan Decamony declared it to be a full and complete heresy, and that all such blasphemers would be placed under probation, sanction, and isolation.

p.57/58:
The Greatway dwarfs, still smarting from their former treatment, declared the Nidan Decamony to be criminally insane, and then sent money and power to the Octamonist leaders there.
Really Octamonist leaders? This is a section about the Individualism heresy. Octamonists are even more conservative than the Nidan Decamony. So this should be Individualism leaders instead of Octamonist leaders maybe? Or do the Greatway dwarfs support the Octamonist leaders in Nida for creating resistance against the Nidan Decamony?

Edited by Oracle
  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, Oracle said:

p.57/58:
The Greatway dwarfs, still smarting from their former treatment, declared the Nidan Decamony to be criminally insane, and then sent money and power to the Octamonist leaders there.
Really Octamonist leaders?

Yes, really.  This has been in print since Different Worlds #24 some 36 years ago and can hardly be considered an error.

5 hours ago, Oracle said:

This is a section about the Individualism heresy. Octamonists are even more conservative than the Nidan Decamony. So this should be Individualism leaders instead of Octamonist leaders maybe? Or do the Greatway dwarfs support the Octamonist leaders in Nida for creating resistance against the Nidan Decamony?

Or Greatway was causing trouble within Nida in an effort to weaken them.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
15 hours ago, metcalph said:

Yes, really.  This has been in print since Different Worlds #24 some 36 years ago and can hardly be considered an error.

...

Ah, seems I'm still missing a lot of reference works ... ;)

But thanks for providing some insight.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks all for your feedback. As I understand things, the corrected proof has been submitted for printing at this point. I'll have to check with Rick when he's back from GAMA to confirm, though. We made as many corrections as we were able in the time we had, though some suggestions were not implemented for various reasons.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, Jason Durall said:

We made as many corrections as we were able in the time we had, though some suggestions were not implemented for various reasons.

Several of mine were suggestions rather than here's something wrong.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The text seems to confusingly dance around the subject of Arkat becoming a Troll in his late campaigns, and not in a fun mystery sort of way. 

The relevant section in the Uz chapter on page 62 (mostly mirroring this text) mentions Grazalf healing Arkat, but nothing more, and he continues to be referred to with the "Humaktson" agnomen, rather than "Kingtroll."

In the "Time" section on p140, the text is coy about it at first:

Quote

Arkat noted the troll successes and chose to
align himself with them more closely. He first joined the
cult of Kyger Litor, taking the name Kingtroll, then joined
Zorak Zoran as well to bring mighty devastation against
his foes. ...

The Humakti were shocked to
see their once-revered leader acting trollish,...

Farther down the page, it pivots to being a bit more explicit:

Quote

...many westerners
returned home with sad and fearful stories of their leader
becoming a bloodthirsty Krjalki,...

After the battle Arkat was no longer a troll, or so said
his friends, and so did many trolls.

This is an awkward way to present this particular story wrinkle. Nothing about "align himself with them more closely"  or "acting trollish" says "underwent a horrifying ritual to bodily become an Uz" to someone who doesn't already know the tale.

First, the bit in the Uz section really ought to shine more light on address their particular perspective on and relationship with Arkat, rather than just copying Greg's old Wyrm's Footnotes article essay verbatim. The context of the Sourcebook and it's intended audience are different from those in which that essay was conceived/published back in '79.

Second, the telling in the Time section should either leave it coy & mysterious, or just come out and say it from the get-go. The former could especially work if the Uz section makes it explicit. 

If a major purpose of the Sourcebook is to help newcomers wrap their brains around Glorantha, it's important to not take this stuff for granted. When something is supposed to be in-setting unclear or have multiple perspectives, hang a big sign on that for the reader so they don't get confused and frustrated.  If something is supposed to be clearly evident, make it so.

In this vein, I suggest getting some feedback from some outside readers who aren't already Glorantha fans, if that hasn't already happened. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 3/18/2018 at 2:30 AM, Jason Durall said:

Thanks all for your feedback. As I understand things, the corrected proof has been submitted for printing at this point. I'll have to check with Rick when he's back from GAMA to confirm, though. We made as many corrections as we were able in the time we had, though some suggestions were not implemented for various reasons.  

Oh. I wish I'd picked it up sooner then.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.

×
×
  • Create New...