Foxes and Elurae

[jeffjerwin]

Come, share your fox wisdom...

There is an Elurae in my game, living in the Troll Woods. But what are her runes? Beast, Disorder... what sort of element are foxes associated with?

I see that Inora has her own kind of foxes. They do seem to be the children of Eurmal as well.

 

Edit: The "Fox rite" is Fire Season, Illusion Week, Wild-day, which hints that the fox is red because of Eurmal the Fire-stealer. Fire? Though the fox is the least psychologically fiery of all creatures...

Edited February 28, 2018 by jeffjerwin

[Joerg]

Why do you think that Beastmen (even ones shared with Kralorela) necessarily need an element? It is easy to assign Sun/Fire to the centaurs and Storm to the minotaurs, swan maidens to Sea/Water and the manticores could take Darkness, but what would you do about satyrs, Earth?

None of the fire-stealers are particularly fiery, if you look at Eurmal or Raven.

I don't quite see Disorder for the fox ladies, either - mischief is part of all beast folk.

[jeffjerwin]

19 minutes ago, Joerg said:

Why do you think that Beastmen (even ones shared with Kralorela) necessarily need an element? It is easy to assign Sun/Fire to the centaurs and Storm to the minotaurs, swan maidens to Sea/Water and the manticores could take Darkness, but what would you do about satyrs, Earth?

None of the fire-stealers are particularly fiery, if you look at Eurmal or Raven.

I don't quite see Disorder for the fox ladies, either - mischief is part of all beast folk.

Just figured that since certain types of beast have Air (alynxes) or Earth (cattle) it might be useful for gaming purposes (in my case, it specifically is: the Elura(e) is being played - and every other character has at least one elemental affinity). The Elurae are called out as tricksters in the Sartar Companion (and before that in Tradetalk) so I suspect Disorder fits.

Satyrs and fauns are no doubt air/storm, as goat and deer creatures - viz. Ragnaglar and Velhara - the goat and deer deities. Also the use of wind instruments by satyrs.

Whether mischief is a part of all beast-folk or no - it seems to manifest differently with each of them. Beast certainly includes "wild".

As you point out, the fire-stealers aren't fiery, which, now that I think about it - makes sense - they wouldn't need to steal it otherwise. Raven has been posited as a Darkness creature. Foxes are nocturnal... and the other fire-stealer, Zorak Zoran, is also a Darkness entity. Hmmm.

[Yelm's Light]

Hmm...based on their promiscuity, maybe Fertility?  Of course, they don't reproduce when mating with humans.  Which begs the question...are there Fox-men?

[Pentallion]

5 hours ago, jeffjerwin said:

Come, share your fox wisdom...

There is an Elurae in my game, living in the Troll Woods. But what are her runes? Beast, Disorder... what sort of element are foxes associated with?

I see that Inora has her own kind of foxes. They do seem to be the children of Eurmal as well.

 

Edit: The "Fox rite" is Fire Season, Illusion Week, Wild-day, which hints that the fox is red because of Eurmal the Fire-stealer. Fire? Though the fox is the least psychologically fiery of all creatures...

The Eolians would disagree, seeing as one of their five elemental spirits they worship is Fiery Fox.  (Along with Slippery Otter, Raven, Reindeer and Owl)

[Joerg]

3 hours ago, jeffjerwin said:

Just figured that since certain types of beast have Air (alynxes) or Earth (cattle) it might be useful for gaming purposes

Cattle for instance are mammals and so fall into the category of storm beasts as much as earth beasts. If you take the Praxian/God Learner genealogy, there are Hykim, Mikyh, Umath and an Earth deity (hard to say which top tier mother goddess) lining up as grandparents of the herds.

3 hours ago, jeffjerwin said:

(in my case, it specifically is: the Elura(e) is being played - and every other character has at least one elemental affinity).

But for the humans, there is no racial element to choose either. Why for an elura? The choice of element could be personal, and defining the character's personality besides being a fox woman.

 

3 hours ago, jeffjerwin said:

The Elurae are called out as tricksters in the Sartar Companion (and before that in Tradetalk) so I suspect Disorder fits.

Illusion is the rune given to Eurmal in ownership, so that fits just as well. Even Mobility/Change works for a Trickster (ask the Dara Happans or the Imtherians).

The Elura description (except for the part about shape-shifting) sounds very much like the female complement to the satyrs.

The only mention of fox-women in the Guide appears to be for the Jaubon (Kralorela) city of Xianwei. Everything said there fits with the description in Sartar Companion, so there is no reason to assume that the two populations of fox women on both side of Genert's Garden (or the ruins thereof) are different species. We don't have any information when and how these two populations came to be, and came to be separated. It is quite likely that there were Elurae in Genert's Garden, perishing along with a multitude of other peoples when Chaos invaded.

3 hours ago, jeffjerwin said:

Satyrs and fauns are no doubt air/storm, as goat and deer creatures - viz. Ragnaglar and Velhara - the goat and deer deities. Also the use of wind instruments by satyrs.

So why do you rank goats as storm and cattle as earth, and not vice versa? Thed was a herd goddess much like Eiritha but for choice of her Umathson. There are numerous other goat mother deities away from Dragon Pass, most of them either Earth goddesses or beast spirits.

 

3 hours ago, jeffjerwin said:

Whether mischief is a part of all beast-folk or no - it seems to manifest differently with each of them. Beast certainly includes "wild".

Satyrs are known for their wiles to get nymphs and other females to share wherever they rest. Minotaurs and manticores are usually considered not that quick of wit, but that won't stop minotaurs from doing "pranks" like drunk adolescent soccer fans. Young male centaurs are as much a plague as Grazer or Praxian braves wishing to prove themselves as eligible partner for females, and might engage in abduction of females or similar clicheed pastimes.

 

[jeffjerwin]

5 hours ago, Yelm's Light said:

Hmm...based on their promiscuity, maybe Fertility?  Of course, they don't reproduce when mating with humans.  Which begs the question...are there Fox-men?

Doesn't look like it. No doubt - Trickster magic... In the case of the RW myth, many-tailed foxes are of course simply foxes, so they mate with ordinary foxes. But humans can have children with them as well. 

Edited February 28, 2018 by jeffjerwin

[Joerg]

I think that the single gender species, including beastfolk, can have offspring with a number of related entities.

Minotaurs would regard both human and cattle females as suitable partners for sex, with cattle the more usual option.

Swan maidens have famously mated with Heortlings, the Hiording clan of the Colymar is descended from one. (Pretty much the entirety of this snippet of Wayland's saga applies, I would guess.)

Elurae should be able to get children from successful seductions of human males. The children will always be fox-women, though, but they might inherit a few traits from the father. Or, perhaps as likely, the fathers might find themselves missing a few traits, only to observe them in their elura offspring should they ever meet.

[jajagappa]

18 hours ago, jeffjerwin said:

Foxes are nocturnal...

Somewhat, but they get around plenty throughout the day, particularly when raising pups (I know this well as we've had foxes denning on our property for the last 4 years).  What they are good at is blending in and being very stealthy.  I'd link them more with Illusion than Disorder.  They den in the earth, and their fur colors could certainly be seen as a range of earthy tones, so if you want an Elemental association, I'd make it Earth.

[g33k]

15 hours ago, Pentallion said:

The Eolians would disagree, seeing as one of their five elemental spirits they worship is Fiery Fox.  (Along with Slippery Otter, Raven, Reindeer and Owl)

 

14 minutes ago, jajagappa said:

...  They den in the earth, and their fur colors could certainly be seen as a range of earthy tones, so if you want an Elemental association, I'd make it Earth.

Rather than a free choice of any Elemental Rune, or locked-in to a single one, how about choosing from a limited subset, as Earth or Fire but no other (add or swap for another as suits Your Glorantha, but staying to the limited subset).

I'm intrigued by some sort of Yelmic/Illusion combo, as it would seem to provide an interesting counterpoint to the whole Lunar Illusion thing...

 

[jeffjerwin]

8 minutes ago, g33k said:

 

Rather than a free choice of any Elemental Rune, or locked-in to a single one, how about choosing from a limited subset, as Earth or Fire but no other (add or swap for another as suits Your Glorantha, but staying to the limited subset).

I'm intrigued by some sort of Yelmic/Illusion combo, as it would seem to provide an interesting counterpoint to the whole Lunar Illusion thing...

 

Well, there are also Black, Blue, and White Foxes - the latter associated with Inora - in Glorantha, so perhaps fox-mother got around?

Edited March 1, 2018 by jeffjerwin

[g33k]

2 hours ago, jeffjerwin said:

Well, there are also Black, Blue, and White Foxes - the latter associated with Inora - in Glorantha, so perhaps fox-mother got around?

ermmmm.... Sorry, I don't know my Elurae well enough!   Are you referring to RW/Earthly Black / Blue / White foxes?  Those are all variants of the Red or Arctic fox; and are just a few of the dozen or so species of fox in the world, with another dozen or more speices of "fox-like" canids with a "fox" common name.

Does the canon include Eleura of Black / Blue / White (as well as Red) colors?

[jeffjerwin]

10 hours ago, g33k said:

ermmmm.... Sorry, I don't know my Elurae well enough!   Are you referring to RW/Earthly Black / Blue / White foxes?  Those are all variants of the Red or Arctic fox; and are just a few of the dozen or so species of fox in the world, with another dozen or more speices of "fox-like" canids with a "fox" common name.

Does the canon include Eleura of Black / Blue / White (as well as Red) colors?

No, I'm referring to the foxes mentioned in Gloranthan sources rather than the Elurae. However it seems likely that some sort of common entity spawned both the beast men and the animals.

[jeffjerwin]

Now I am attempting to work out the 'history' of the Elurae. (see my comments on Sit Here...)

There's a 1-page article in Tradetalk cut from Anaxial's Roster, which seems to derive them from Kralorela. They're represented as theists in the text, and are Beast-men, not Hsunchen. In the Book of Heortling Mythology they are one of the children of Velhara the Lady of the Wild, along with the other Beast Men.

Foxes are of course closely associated with Eurmal in Heortling legend.

Are they descended from Ebe the Wild Man from before he had a human mate?

Did they arrive during the EWF along with the other Beast Men as part of a magical experiment?

Most likely, these questions are academic, since the Elurae don't care. However, I'm still curious.

Also, do they have the propensity for extreme longevity that mythical were foxes do? 

[In the RW, were foxes are in Chinese and Japanese mythology simply foxes who became quasi-Taoist immortals, and their sexual practices are in order to take Qi, which extends their lifespans.]

Note also that Elusu, the Trickster who served Argrath, has the same Elu- root in her name. It may mean 'red, fiery' (viz. Elmal) and reference the typical color of their fur..., or it may simply mean 'fox'.

[jeffjerwin]

NB. Fire-stealing is an accident, according to my Elurae.

Vixen/Vuskarasa caught her tail on fire when she was investigating the Sky Palace (possibly after eating King Chicken's golden egg), and ran outside. Her tail caught the trees on fire, including Tree-man. Ever since, her feet and the tip of her tail were singed. Wild-man found the burning tree man and made a hearth. He claimed to have found fire himself, but what he wanted with it is a mystery.

And This is why you should be wary of such things, cub.

[jeffjerwin]

King Chicken's Golden Egg.

At the top of the sky was a house full of birds. The snootiest and loudest was King Chicken. In the centre of his coop was a Golden Egg which was so bright it made the sky and the whole world gleam.

Vixen decided that the golden egg looked delicious.

When the world was young no one had sharp teeth, so we had to chew things a lot. Also nothing went away when we ate them, because all of it grew on trees. Even meat and voles!

The first time Vixen went into the palace she looked around a bit, but King Chicken attacked her, saying she was 'impure' and 'not wanted'. In the trouble she caught her tail in the brightness and fell back towards the ground, the fire burning like a falling star. She landed in the First Forest and ran to Tree Man, but the fire burned him up. Tree Man screamed in agony and started to fall apart, but Wild Man took the charcoal to make the first fire. After that the trees wouldn't give food to Vixen or anyone else who liked juicy flesh. So we had to bite it off. Vixen had to sharpen her teeth with a hard stone, so she could do that. After a while other creatures learned that trick, and Vixen was too small to fight them. She hid in the loving Deep Earth. But she was still hungry.

So she came to the coop dressed as a pedlar with a basket of delicious grubs she had gotten from Deep Earth. They made her tummy rumble but she wanted the Golden Egg. When King Chicken saw the grubs writhing in the basket, his tummy rumbled too, so he dove into the basket, swallowing up the squirming things. Vixen snapped his neck with her sharpened jaws and seized the Golden Egg. It tasted like something we cannot describe, because nothing else has been so good since. The world was darkening and Vixen sprang back to the Deep Earth, laughing, because she loved the dimness and the wonderful cleverness she had done. She used to be a lot duller, but she became the color of red flame after. Every twilight we praise our mother now.

[womble]

[applause]

 

Edit: I have tears of laughter and appreciation. Bravo.

 

Edited August 31, 2018 by womble

[Steve]

There's very little mention of Elurae in the Guide. They don't feel like an EWF experiment to me because of their shapechanging ability.

Love the myths, great work.

 

[Joerg]

3 hours ago, Steve said:

There's very little mention of Elurae in the Guide.

Apart from the city of Xiaowei in Jaubon province, I couldn't find any mention in the Guide.

 

[jeffjerwin]

4 hours ago, Joerg said:

Apart from the city of Xiaowei in Jaubon province, I couldn't find any mention in the Guide.

 

They are, however, mentioned in King of Sartar, the Sartar Companion, and several other 'mostly or nearly entirely canonical' sources.

[jeffjerwin]

Incidentally, my 9-year-old wants to run RQ for me. I am entirely approving, of course, and my Elurae Trickster is probably going to end up as my character.

She has chosen Fronela as it has reindeer people and fjords. I look forward to causing confusion and disorder in Loskalm. We will probably place the time in the vague past (post-EWF/early Lunar period).

Are there some Fox-legends about Fronela? Some apocryphal material placed fox-Hsunchen in the area, but that seems to have been discarded by the time of Anaxial's Roster, where all the fox-people are Elurae.

Edit: Jamie Revell's Book of Glorious Joy has a mention of 'Curious Fox', a strange species of fox in Loskalm. I personally can't imagine a more lovely way to disrupt Loskalmi perfectionism than having a fox-trickster wander about.

Edited September 1, 2018 by jeffjerwin

[jeffjerwin]

11 hours ago, Steve said:

There's very little mention of Elurae in the Guide. They don't feel like an EWF experiment to me because of their shapechanging ability.

Love the myths, great work.

 

Thank you. There will be more.

The shape changing seems like the sort of power from 'before beasts and men were something different' (Green Age). This is no doubt how they can be 'adopted' into Beast Valley. Maybe they showed up after the Dragonkill. One possibility is that a group came west with Sheng Seleris...? I could see also one following Godunya into Dragon Pass during his exile.

[Joerg]

22 minutes ago, jeffjerwin said:

They are, however, mentioned in King of Sartar, the Sartar Companion, and several other 'mostly or nearly entirely canonical' sources.

I didn't mean to imply that they were non-canonical or even non-existant. They probably just fall out of focus from the "birds' eye" view shown in the Guide.

Elurae and Tiger-walkers are just two magical species that are found both east and west of the Wastes. It isn't clear when or how they came across, but there are various mundane opportunities when there was some exchange between the Genertelan East and central and western Genertela, most recently the Seleric Empire.

The Elurae are manifestly present before the Dragonkill, and probably way earlier than that, so they may have been part of the population of Genert's Garden in the Storm Age or earlier, too. Uncounted species and cultures disappeared as consequence of Earthfall, and other species besides the elurae may have been split into an eastern and a western population. Not a problem of the wind children, however.

[jeffjerwin]

4 minutes ago, Joerg said:

I didn't mean to imply that they were non-canonical or even non-existant. They probably just fall out of focus from the "birds' eye" view shown in the Guide.

Well, they don't actually 'do' anything historical. Mostly they mess around and steal things from humans. The really clever stuff is probably covered up, though, by embarrassed Men.

[Joerg]

5 minutes ago, jeffjerwin said:

Well, they don't actually 'do' anything historical. Mostly they mess around and steal things from humans. The really clever stuff is probably covered up, though, by embarrassed Men.

Basically that is because nobody has yet submitted a scenario where the fox-women (or swan maidens as per the Hiording clan history in KoS, or similar female-only followers of the Lady of the Wild) have played a major role.

Their role in Kralorela quite likely suffers from this, too. But then the Guide has muliplied the available info on Kralorela by a factor of about five, and still only provides a bird's view level of detail.

I don't think that the elurae are among the movers and shakers of the Hero Wars, but that doesn't mean that they cannot play a role in a few of these events. I think that befriending one of these creatures might open up hero paths into the wild myths of Dragon Pass beyond the stuff we have seen for Varanorlanth or the various "hunter heroes" named in King of Sartar. Playing around with the beast folk and natural spirits of Dragon Pass in a faerie Other Side way has been underused IMO. But beware the dragonewts who are at home in these, unless you follow the steps of the Hunting and Waltzing Bands.