RQG - Where we are. And the new cover.

[kaydet]

On 3/29/2018 at 7:03 AM, Jenx said:

It's not - the Troll's tattoos are not symmetrical, and their placement is consistent between the two images.

?

 

[Jenx]

Well yes, but this now means that both of the images would have to have been intentionally flipped around, for no adequately explained reason, and that's before the artist had put his signature on the piece in the bottom there. All of which sound like quite the stretch, compared to just the Troll Windlord being left-handed. I'm not saying this  couldn't happen, I'm saying that it's just a small thing to get hung up on.

Edited April 1, 2018 by Jenx

[TrippyHippy]

It looks a bit like anime - in the same sort of style used for things like White Wolf's Exalted, among other things. 

 

 

[g33k]

2 hours ago, TrippyHippy said:

It looks a bit like anime - in the same sort of style used for things like White Wolf's Exalted, among other things. 

Huh?  Um.

Well... I'm not really an expert in anime art styles, but I'm not seeing "anime" here.  OTOH, note that "I'm not really an expert in anime art styles," so I may be missing stuff that's obvious to more experienced eyes.

YGMV

[Mugen]

5 hours ago, g33k said:

Huh?  Um.

Well... I'm not really an expert in anime art styles, but I'm not seeing "anime" here.  OTOH, note that "I'm not really an expert in anime art styles," so I may be missing stuff that's obvious to more experienced eyes.

YGMV

One could say it looks a little like anime-inspired comic books.

To my eyes, it looks more like some european comic books.

[styopa]

3 hours ago, Mugen said:

One could say it looks a little like anime-inspired comic books.

To my eyes, it looks more like some european comic books.

Name checks out! (Samurai champloo)

Anyway, nah, I don't see the anime here either, honestly.  Too quasi realistic in both musculature and lighting to make that connecting, but I'm hardly an expert.

[Mugen]

17 hours ago, styopa said:

Name checks out! (Samurai champloo)

Anyway, nah, I don't see the anime here either, honestly.  Too quasi realistic in both musculature and lighting to make that connecting, but I'm hardly an expert.

It reminded me of comics like Quest for the Time Bird, l'Epée de Cristal, Lanfeust de Troy or Trolls de Troy (or other comics from Soleil).

[g33k]

Ooops?

I just noticed something -- an art error, I believe.

I thought the "High Llama" was so named in part because the riders were "higher" than any of the other beast-rider tribes.  But the "Beasts of the Praxian Tribes" piece shows Bison and Rhino as NOTABLY higher...

 

@Jason Durall?  @David Scott ?

Have I mis-remembered & I'm just wrong?  Or has this element been Gregged?  Or is it just the beast's head being higher?

Or is the art "inaccurate"?

TYVM ...

 

[simonh]

The Gloranthan Bestiary had Alticamelus riders rolling 1D10+10 for hit location even against other mounted foes.

https://www.pinterest.co.uk/pin/627267054323406025/

Although most of the online sources only put Aepycamelus (same thing) at 3m to the head, but that may have been in a resting posture is which case the back might have still been over 2m?

However the Florida Museum gives Aepycamelus Major a back height of 13 feet, plus 5-6 feet to the head.

Simon Hibbs

Edited April 21, 2018 by simonh

[David Scott]

4 hours ago, g33k said:

Ooops?

I just noticed something -- an art error, I believe.

I thought the "High Llama" was so named in part because the riders were "higher" than any of the other beast-rider tribes.  But the "Beasts of the Praxian Tribes" piece shows Bison and Rhino as NOTABLY higher...

 

@Jason Durall?  @David Scott ?

Have I mis-remembered & I'm just wrong? 

This is a group of animals clearly drawn to fit them in to a limited space. None appear to be correctly scaled. It gives a sense of what they look like, the stats will and description will show the sizes. 

Quote

Or has this element been Gregged?

Greg’s not involved and the animal size likely hasn’t changed since RQ:

High Llama 

These are tall, giraffe-like camelids, often larger than bison. Unlike modern camels they have only a slight single hump. Bulls stand up to 12 feet tall and weigh on average 1600lbs, with cows being shorter and weighing in at an average 1000lbs. Their heads are relatively small compared with the rest of the body, and their legs are long and stilt-like. Bulls and cows are mid-brown in color with occasional variation. In Dark and Storm season their coats thicken slightly. High llamas can live for up to 40 years.

[soltakss]

12 hours ago, g33k said:

Ooops?

I just noticed something -- an art error, I believe.

I thought the "High Llama" was so named in part because the riders were "higher" than any of the other beast-rider tribes.  But the "Beasts of the Praxian Tribes" piece shows Bison and Rhino as NOTABLY higher...

 

@Jason Durall?  @David Scott ?

Have I mis-remembered & I'm just wrong?  Or has this element been Gregged?  Or is it just the beast's head being higher?

Or is the art "inaccurate"?

TYVM ...

 

It must be just a young one. In any case, it's head is higher than any of the others.

[simonh]

14 hours ago, David Scott said:

...Bulls stand up to 12 feet tall and weigh on average 1600lbs, with cows being shorter and weighing in at an average 1000lbs. 

12 feet seems a bit short. It would put their back height at only about 8 feet, not enough to provide a significant advantage over a Bison or Rhinoceros. It seems to me they are likely based on Aepycamelus Major, which was significantly bigger per my post above. Their back height was 13ft!

Simon Hibbs

[g33k]

14 hours ago, David Scott said:

This is a group of animals clearly drawn to fit them in to a limited space. None appear to be correctly scaled. It gives a sense of what they look like, the stats will and description will show the sizes. 

Well, I hope that's clearly noted.

Given that they ARE sized, and many/most of them seem to be at least "in order of size," I expect a lot of confusion if the (vivid, excellent) pic isn't annotated appropriately...

[BWP]

22 hours ago, David Scott said:

This is a group of animals clearly drawn to fit them in to a limited space. None appear to be correctly scaled. It gives a sense of what they look like, the stats will and description will show the sizes.

Well, if that were true, then this particular illustration is the worst possible way to indicate it.  It's just not how you present information, if you want that information to be interpreted correctly!  The human mind excels at forming connections (indeed, it will do so even where there are no connections whatsoever -- thus, conspiracy theories), and a piece of art depicting various animals standing side-by-side will inevitably, by default, be assumed to be depicting various animals standing side-by-side.  It would be contrary to human nature to interpret it in any other way.  If you just want to illustrate what the various critters will look like, you do it the way every other bestiary since the middle ages has done it: you provide individual depictions.  If you want to depict scale, you include a human figure (or some other obvious reference point).  If you want to depict comparative scale, then you make sure the art does so correctly!

 

[David Scott]

2 hours ago, BWP said:

Well, if that were true, then this particular illustration is the worst possible way to indicate it

I'm not saying I like or agree with this particular illustration (I'm not even sure what book it's in). I always refer player to @M Helsdon's excellent silhouettes in HeroQuest Glorantha page 210 and now we also have 13G's collection starting page 451.

[Sayerson]

Seems more a piece showing the artist's drawing abilty and proportion than an attempt to convey actual sizing in relation. 

Very nice test piece actually, for an example of content style.

[David Scott]

11 hours ago, simonh said:

12 feet seems a bit short. It would put their back height at only about 8 feet, not enough to provide a significant advantage over a Bison or Rhinoceros. It seems to me they are likely based on Aepycamelus Major, which was significantly bigger per my post above. Their back height was 13ft!

Greg's notes are quite clear on their basis, we actually have his reference from his original Nomad Gods notes. The height provides an advantage (significant enough), along with their speed.

Major Tribes Herd beasts Reference table (part)

	Bison	High Llama	Sable	Herd men	Impala
Male (ave)	1500 lbs	1600 lbs	525 lbs	175 lbs	135 lbs
Female (ave)	900 lbs	1000 lbs	500 lbs smaller horns	130 lbs	100 lbs no horns
Age	to 25	To 40	To 18	To 50	To 15
Top Speed (Riding animal - burst)	To 35  mph	to 40 mph	To 35 mph	To 25 mph (not ridden)	to 56 mph

 

[MOB]

1 hour ago, David Scott said:

...and now we also have 13G's collection starting page 451.

Having been involved in the art direction for the silhouettes in 13G, I'm really happy with the way they turned out and how they are presented in the book: wonderful work by Kalin Kadiev and Mara Braun, and layout guy Chris Huth:

 

Edited April 22, 2018 by MOB