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RQG - Where we are. And the new cover.

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3 hours ago, Jeff said:

In Glorantha, ceremonial armor is likely BETTER than purely practical armor, for as well all know the golden-armor of the Light Sons is better than than the bronze armor of ordinary Templars. And who can forget the enchanted Lead armor of the Death Lords!

In our own past, male cuirasses were known to be worn to display the unprotected male genitals in battle (there was a neat presentation on that at the Altes Museum some years back), and armor recreationists have observed that the muscles (and often prominent nipples) in a muscle cuirass weaken the armor compared to a simple plain cuirass. But in Glorantha, that most certainly is not true!

Of the few cuirasses in our past known to be worn in battle by a woman war leader, here's the panoply attributed to the Rani of Jhansi. A bit late (19th century) but truly fantastic. 
d109a197e8e96a9fa706df5a2310c4f9.jpg

Less impressive, is this late Bronze Age/Early Iron Age cuirass from Central Europe.

f25fe5fa124ac38f6f07a8510452b04b.jpg

Typically said to be ceremonial, but the female archaeologist in our gaming group says that all identifiably female armor gets described as "ceremonial" by (largely male) archaeologists, and is pretty dubious that there was much a distinction between ceremonial and use.

Both of those pieces were references for Andrey.

If gold is as malleable as it is in the RW, it's completely useless in combat other than as decoration (i.e., gold plated over bronze or iron).

That first set is clearly ceremonial; no wear whatsoever, although it does look like it could be functional, unlike most ceremonial armor.  The second actually looks like it might have been used, and its asymmetricality suggests that somehow it was molded to the wearer's body.

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18 minutes ago, Yelm's Light said:

If gold is as malleable as it is in the RW, it's completely useless in combat other than as decoration (i.e., gold plated over bronze or iron).

It isn't. When refined it -- and the other rune metals -- have the same durability as bronze.

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Rani's armor looks actually rather practical, rather than just ceremonial.  The cobra's prevent someone sweeping her head off and on overhead chop is going to deflect at the worst into the side of her helm, but quite likely the attacker is going to find they have to withdraw their sword directly back to get it out of there and that's not a very good move to have to make.  And Rani would probably have trained in breaking their sword should they be in that position.  But the helm looks like the cobra might deflect the blow down onto her skull if delivered from the most likely angle.  So that helm I wouldn't want to wear.

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I don't think that anyone has said this yet, but the blue dude isn't Orlanth, it's an Orlanthi Wind Lord. Though I can't find the reference where Jeff said this right now.

 

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3 minutes ago, Steve said:

I don't think that anyone has said this yet, but the blue dude isn't Orlanth, it's an Orlanthi Wind Lord. Though I can't find the reference where Jeff said this right now.

 

That is correct. The central figure is a Wind Lord of Orlanth, garbed as his god and painted blue with sacred woad. In an ideal depiction, we would have gotten rid of his skirt, and made him completely nude, but I suspect that might very well violate the law in some jurisdictions. Shame, but that is what it is. His hair is wild and unkempt, like a sadhu's.

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The people complaining about a bit of underboob on the cover better not see the kind of art that Jeff and I would create for Glorantha, because they'd have a heart attack. Tits, cocks and just generally naked people everywhere.

Edited by Jenx
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3 hours ago, Jeff said:

In an ideal depiction, we would have gotten rid of his skirt, and made him completely nude, but I suspect that might very well violate the law in some jurisdictions. Shame, but that is what it is. His hair is wild and unkempt, like a sadhu's.

That’s where the *uncivilised* bad press comes from then 

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3 hours ago, Jenx said:

The people complaining about a bit of underboob on the cover better not see the kind of art that Jeff and I would create for Glorantha, because they'd have a heart attack. Tits, cocks and just generally naked people everywhere.

While I have no problems with this personally and understand why you would want to do it, I'm glad you didn't go for that style simply because I think it would've drastically affected how people would think if me if I started reading it in school or something.

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3 hours ago, Jenx said:

The people complaining about a bit of underboob on the cover better not see the kind of art that Jeff and I would create for Glorantha, because they'd have a heart attack. Tits, cocks and just generally naked people everywhere.

You mean, otherwise authentically like every early-age society in warm climates (and even some current ones today)?  Heavens.  :)

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1 hour ago, styopa said:

You mean, otherwise authentically like every early-age society in warm climates (and even some current ones today)?  Heavens.  :)

A-yup. That's basically it. After all, so many people love to bemoan "historical inaccuracy" in fantasy games when it comes to weapons and armor, but the moment someone just starts walking around naked, you get reactions about how that person needs to cover up.

Edited by Jenx

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@Jeff -- d'you think it'd be possible to get a "source art" page, showing (or linking to) some exemplars of the iconic RW-cultural images that Gloranthan-cultural images cue from?  Showing a whole range from very-covered-up to even-less-covered-than-Chaosium-uses, alongside some of the non-clothing (weapons, architecture, etc) ?

I'd sure love to have a hearty portion of "yeahNO, not cheesecake but derived directly from real-world anthro/archeo sources -- please refer all complaints to the Royal Castle at Knossos" to serve to folks who start sputtering about boobs.  :D    It'd also serve the fans well who want to point to images online when helping newbies "get" Glorantha...

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45 minutes ago, g33k said:

@Jeff -- d'you think it'd be possible to get a "source art" page, showing (or linking to) some exemplars of the iconic RW-cultural images that Gloranthan-cultural images cue from?  Showing a whole range from very-covered-up to even-less-covered-than-Chaosium-uses, alongside some of the non-clothing (weapons, architecture, etc) ?

I'd sure love to have a hearty portion of "yeahNO, not cheesecake but derived directly from real-world anthro/archeo sources -- please refer all complaints to the Royal Castle at Knossos" to serve to folks who start sputtering about boobs.  :D    It'd also serve the fans well who want to point to images online when helping newbies "get" Glorantha...

Simple answer: No chance, in my view. 

NatGeo just fell on its sword this month in frenzied virtue-signalling about their (discontinued) penchant for including a picture or three of topless tribeswomen in nearly every issue.  Just as we've finally dispensed with the tatters of Victorian Puritanism in the West (whose intent, while well-intended, was a patronizing "protection" of women from exploitation by men), we've invented a whole new "feminist" Puritanism in 2018 (whose intent, well-intended, is a "protection" of women from exploitation by men).  I hope the irony is apparent.

Simply: due to the pervasive over-sexualization of culture today, any mass media depiction of nudity will 'trigger' someone looking to be outraged.  The Manchester museum said explicitly that they removed Hylas and the Nymphs ("nsfw" link: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hylas_and_the_Nymphs_(Waterhouse)) due to #MeToo impact, and a Utah teacher was fired for showing students Boticelli's Birth of Venus ("nsfw" link: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Birth_of_Venus) because it made 12 yr old students 'uncomfortable'.

I can't imagine Chaosium wants to die on the hill of sane expression of historical genitalia, no matter how justified.  Then again, PT Barnum said "there is no bad publicity"....

Edited by styopa
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5 hours ago, Jenx said:

The people complaining about a bit of underboob on the cover better not see the kind of art that Jeff and I would create for Glorantha, because they'd have a heart attack. Tits, cocks and just generally naked people everywhere.

A Lamentations of the Flame Princess in Glorantha rpg would actually be pretty cool.

Edited by GianniVacca

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34 minutes ago, styopa said:

NatGeo just fell on its sword this month in frenzied virtue-signalling ...

Um.  You DO know that NatGeo is now a RupertMurdoch(tm) product, and may be about to be a Disney(tm) product...?

All sorts of ... "oddities" ... are occuring over there, I'm afraid ...  :angry:

 

That said, I've got no argument with your central thesis that our culture has a screwed-up outlook on sex and sexuality, particularly womens' (though I'd really take issue with your asserion that "... we've finally dispensed with the tatters of Victorian Puritanism in the West ..." or a few other details.) .

 

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I'd like to applaud Chasoium for it's treatment of gender and nudity in recent publications, I imagine as a publisher of what may often be perceived as children's books they must thread carefully. Nudity and sexuality have been depicted with maturity and in a manner consistent with the themes and setting of a mythic fantasy world without falling in to the pitfalls of common tropes. While Glorantha in not Earth, and it's moires not Earth bound it exists in our world full of prejudice and genuine sensitivities. Many of us here would remember the MADD days that saw demons and devils redacted from RPG's and would rather not see those days again. If giving the Windlord a tea towel as a concession gets more kids playing RPGs then great, and then hopefully experience how sexuality can be expressed in a heathy way.

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4 minutes ago, Psullie said:

I'd like to applaud Chasoium for it's treatment of gender and nudity in recent publications, I imagine as a publisher of what may often be perceived as children's books they must thread carefully. Nudity and sexuality have been depicted with maturity and in a manner consistent with the themes and setting of a mythic fantasy world without falling in to the pitfalls of common tropes. While Glorantha in not Earth, and it's moires not Earth bound it exists in our world full of prejudice and genuine sensitivities. Many of us here would remember the MADD days that saw demons and devils redacted from RPG's and would rather not see those days again. If giving the Windlord a tea towel as a concession gets more kids playing RPGs then great, and then hopefully experience how sexuality can be expressed in a heathy way.

+1, except I think you meant "BADD" (Bothered about D&D) not MADD (Mothers Against Drunk Driving).  :)

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6 hours ago, Jenx said:

The people complaining about a bit of underboob on the cover better not see the kind of art that Jeff and I would create for Glorantha, because they'd have a heart attack. Tits, cocks and just generally naked people everywhere.

just for you...

Blue_Tits_Henrik_Gronvold_c1920.jpg

Cockerel_(5606894854).jpg

 

 

 

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I thought it was a wind lord mainly because gods have so rarely been depicted directly, but MOB asserted it was Orlanth in a post here last June.  But you know, with heroquesting and heroforming - whatever.

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