New series: What's Happening With RQG #1 - Deep into Layout!

[MOB]

First in a new series - What's Happening with RQG. Jeff shares some of the new layout in progress: this is a book with a lot of art, and where we could visually explain a concept, we did!

Art Credits:
'Missile Weapons' & 'Shield Types' by Simon Roy

Edited April 16, 2018 by MOB

[TrippyHippy]

Hmmm...speaking as a physics teacher, if that bowman wants to maximise the gravitational acceleration upon the impact of that arrow's target.......he should aim a little higher.  

Although, admittedly, he could be aiming at the target's toes.

Edited April 16, 2018 by TrippyHippy

[MJ Sadique]

58 minutes ago, TrippyHippy said:

Hmmm...speaking as a physics teacher, if that bowman wants to maximise the gravitational acceleration upon the impact of that arrow's target.......he should aim a little higher.  

Although, admittedly, he could be aiming at the target's toes.

Yep, but you need an A0 size book to print exact scaled illustration (as the archer seem to be is 20m tall) and I don't have enough place in my shelf

Joke apart, the border is really beautiful, the text is clear (why the text in p235, column 2 is not justified ?) and the background with runes great ! (only the colours -yellow and green- still feel strange to me).

Excellent Job Guys (thumbs up !)

[simonh]

3 hours ago, TrippyHippy said:

......he should aim a little higher.  

But then his arrow flight arc would overlap with that of the sling stone and possibly the Javelin, visually complicating the illustration. But if you put the archer at the top to avoid that, the illustration would take up to twice as much space. Neither of those seem attractive.

Simon Hibbs

Edited April 16, 2018 by simonh

[Psullie]

2 hours ago, MJ Sadique said:

Joke apart, the border is really beautiful, the text is clear (why the text in p235, column 2 is not justified ?) and the background with runes great ! (only the colours -yellow and green- still feel strange to me).

Excellent Job Guys (thumbs up !)

I'm guessing that as bulleted text it is not right justified to make the distinction clearer

[simonh]

2 minutes ago, Psullie said:

I'm guessing that as bulleted text it is not right justified to make the distinction clearer

And in fact the bulleted text at the top of the left hand page isn't justified either so it seems consistent.

Simon Hibbs

[Psullie]

I love the figure sketches. Would it be possible when all is said and done to release them (even sell them) as a Roll20 sprite pack?

[David Scott]

For those not reading the article but just looking at the pictures:

@Jeff said

Quote

Now keep in mind, these are not final pages, just works in progress to show you the visual style of the book. Art placement will get tweaked, texted moved, etc.

[styopa]

"Where we could illustrate a concept, we did."  FANTASTIC.  Visually grabbing, show-not-tell, hits all the right notes.  Modern rules sets use more art than old ones did, but I think it's a smart choice to use your 'graphic space budget' functionally instead of just with theme/setting art.  Nice.

I also like the "rune connecting the chapter" subtle watermark, very nice.  My only suggestion (if you haven't done it already) is in the TOC I would make that connection explicit, ie:

(RUNE) Chapter 3: Combat 

...or something.

 

Looks terrific.

 

Re Rules shown: I like that the min STR to use an item is merely a penalty and not a prohibition.  IIRC RQ3 was "if you don't have that STR, you can't use it" which is too breakpoint-y for me.

Shields - hide, wicker, wood (no metal?): all shield data (hp, cost, enc, areas covered, etc) like that could be more concisely presented in a table.

 

 

[Yelm's Light]

I suspect the lack of justification has to do with the fact that the bulleted text never reaches the text border of the column.

[Al.]

13 hours ago, TrippyHippy said:

Hmmm...speaking as a physics teacher, if that bowman wants to maximise the gravitational acceleration upon the impact of that arrow's target.......he should aim a little higher.  

Although, admittedly, he could be aiming at the target's toes.

45 degrees from horizontal for maximum range if my vague recollection of resolving motion into i, j and k vectors is correct. (I'm guessing that TripphyHippy is a sufficiently competent topologist to recognise the reality of page size constraints on a more accurate picture)

Lovely illustration and massively more interesting than a mere table of numbers

As a Physics teacher myself I applaud the use of SI units (although 'paces' might be more flavoursome and won't be far off)

[styopa]

1 hour ago, Al. said:

As a Physics teacher myself I applaud the use of SI units (although 'paces' might be more flavoursome and won't be far off)

While I understand the simplicity of it, I deeply despise decimalized measures (m/kg/l) in a fantasy setting as anachronistic as talking about germs and atoms.

"Common Tongue" and standard-unit currency systems are pretty high up there too.

1 hour ago, Al. said:

45 degrees from horizontal for maximum range if my vague recollection of resolving motion into i, j and k vectors is correct. (I'm guessing that TripphyHippy is a sufficiently competent topologist to recognise the reality of page size constraints on a more accurate picture)

[TrippyHippy]

Horizontal velocity stays constant, but the final vertical velocity is equivalent to the initial vertical velocity, as acted upon by gravitational acceleration (with the counter angle of drag also forming a vector angle with gravity). A lower angle would go further and be more accurate in judging range, but the question would be about how to maximise velocity and force on the target. Theoretically, if the only acceleration acting on the arrow is gravity, then the force ought to be constant too. 

However, the comment was mainly a joke about hitting somebody in the ankles!  

The layout is nice though. 

With regards to SI units, it's certainly easier to mathematically analyse, while the distinction between real world measures and in game measures is probably compromised already. What units do they use in Glorantha?

 

Edited April 16, 2018 by TrippyHippy

[smiorgan]

Congrats! This is beautiful!

 

Leaving ballistic trajectories aside...this use of visuals is very modern on one side, yet it is somehow very true to the spirit of an old ruleset such as Rune Quest. I guess new players can relate with it and yet appreciate that this is the latest improvement of a 1978 ruleset... 

 

[MJ Sadique]

3 hours ago, TrippyHippy said:

(1) Horizontal velocity stays constant, but the final vertical velocity is equivalent to the initial vertical velocity, as acted upon by gravitational acceleration (with the counter angle of drag also forming a vector angle with gravity). A lower angle would go further and be more accurate in judging range, but the question would be about how to maximise velocity and force on the target (2). Theoretically, if the only acceleration acting on the arrow is gravity, then the force ought to be constant too (3). 

However, the comment was mainly a joke about hitting somebody in the ankles!  

The layout is nice though. (4)

With regards to SI units, it's certainly easier to mathematically analyse, while the distinction between real world measures and in game measures is probably compromised already.

(5) What units do they use in Glorantha ?

(1) No it slow down (Air rune Don't like Earth elements in it's domain)
(2) Shooting at short range or from above (In their back between shoulders blades or On a castle wall in their head). This one was easy.
(3) All wrong, Gravity is a force which create acceleration of the arrow... (Earth Rune create Force Rune Which Make Movement rune - from gata by umath to larnste)

(4) Yep

(5) Man ! it's COWS every praxian know this : Cows to measure your wealth, Cow to measure your sacrifice to the gods, cows to measure your greatness (aka weregeld), cows to measure length (elf bow's range are a hundred cows length, human's one only 80 cows length and Durulz are 10 cows only -yes I don't like them unless with some mustard and honey-)

[MOB]

21 hours ago, TrippyHippy said:

Hmmm...speaking as a physics teacher, if that bowman wants to maximise the gravitational acceleration upon the impact of that arrow's target.......he should aim a little higher.  

Although, admittedly, he could be aiming at the target's toes.

Here is a scientific explantation from a Gloranthan perspective.

Beyond the Sky Dome is a Shining World. Of the Shining World's great Light, but a small Fraction descends to us along the paths pioneered by mighty Yelm and his lesser descendants and followers. The Will of these divine Beings is to send light to the mortal world, hence the light descends, against its Nature. However, it always yearns to return unto its true Home.

As is well known Light, like Fire, is a manifestation of Aether and thus properly belongs in the Sky World. The elements always seeks their own proper level in the bubble that is Glorantha, thus light tends to curve upward slightly as it flits along at a great pace (note-1).

Light clearly "bends", tending towards its heavenly home. Rays of Light are akin to arrows or javelins (the Sky's weapons). The paradox that the path of an arrow or javelin plainly curves downwards is simply explained: it is because the arrow is of a gross material substance and not made of celestial light (note-2). However, an arrow enhanced by Speedart tends more nearly to the horizontal -- that is, adopting a flat path as it is charged with more Light energies.

1. This is why you see the top of a mast as a ship approaches, then the sails, then the body. At this stage the light from the mast barely skims the waters, making the top visible, but the path that light from the sails would have to take intersects the ocean's surface and is absorbed by the hungry waters. This is the explanation for the 'horizon' of seafarers and for why the tops of objects are seen first as a distant object approaches. Note also that an observer higher up may see farther, thus we have lookouts atop the masts of ships and observation towers (this phenomenon is seen on land as well but is less obvious).
2. Even El-metal (gold), Yelm's metal itself indeed falls down with great Force, but in the oldest records this is not so. In Godtime, before the Darkness, it was the Lightest of Metals and would even Leap and Dance about, from the Yearning of the Fire Within to return to the Sky World. Only after the Sunslaying (familiar to all who love the Lightbringer Saga) did Gold become heavy and lifeless, seeking to join the Celestial Emperor in the Underworld. Thus through the actions of Great Orlanth did Gold become the heaviest of Metals.

 

 

[TrippyHippy]

Does this mean it wouldn't work at night?

[deleriad]

Looks gorgeous and I do like the rules illustrations. If this was my first rpg book I would assume that all rpg books did this.

Pedantic rules questions and observations ahead...

Controlling a mount during combat

"untrained... succeed at ride skill every melee round.."

When during the melee round? Beginning, end or some other time?

 

I'm surprised that the charge with large damage bonus still works as it does. Surely the issue is speed rather than size. That said, a regiment of Dragon Snail Lancers would be rather funny... It is also not clear whether this bonus applies to any other 1-h spear or just lances. Or come to that, any other kind of 1H weapon. That might be clarified elsewhere though. I realise that this has been the ruling in RQ since year dot.

Also surprised about mounted archery being no more difficult than standing still. I can see the merit in simplicity and treating it much the same as melee while mounted (though there may be modifiers elsewhere for the latter). Does mounted archery also apply to mounted thrown weapons and other mounted projectile weapons?

Shields: is the amount it can absorb equal to its normal hit points or the number it has left? Can a shield with 0 Hit Points be used as cover? Does a shield being used as cover absorb HP the same way as parrying or in a different way and does it take damage from projectiles? (These may have been answered on the previous page.)

[Jeff]

16 minutes ago, deleriad said:

Looks gorgeous and I do like the rules illustrations. If this was my first rpg book I would assume that all rpg books did this.

Pedantic rules questions and observations ahead...

Controlling a mount during combat

"untrained... succeed at ride skill every melee round.."

When during the melee round? Beginning, end or some other time?

 

I'm surprised that the charge with large damage bonus still works as it does. Surely the issue is speed rather than size. That said, a regiment of Dragon Snail Lancers would be rather funny... It is also not clear whether this bonus applies to any other 1-h spear or just lances. Or come to that, any other kind of 1H weapon. That might be clarified elsewhere though. I realise that this has been the ruling in RQ since year dot.

Also surprised about mounted archery being no more difficult than standing still. I can see the merit in simplicity and treating it much the same as melee while mounted (though there may be modifiers elsewhere for the latter). Does mounted archery also apply to mounted thrown weapons and other mounted projectile weapons?

Shields: is the amount it can absorb equal to its normal hit points or the number it has left? Can a shield with 0 Hit Points be used as cover? Does a shield being used as cover absorb HP the same way as parrying or in a different way and does it take damage from projectiles? (These may have been answered on the previous page.)

Given that the rules continue on the next page, please don't get pedantic about interpreting just part of the rules. But given that the rules make it clear that mounted archery is limited by your Ride skill, unless you are a skilled rider, you are probably better off standing.
As for speed of mount determining its damage modifier, its the mass times the moment. Since a lance attack requires a straight run of 20 meters or more, we can largely discount comparative speed - the mount is going fast enough. It is the mass of the mount that makes the difference. A rhino charge is just going to be more damaging than a sable charge.

[deleriad]

1 hour ago, Jeff said:

 A rhino charge is just going to be more damaging than a sable charge.

Well I did note that these things might be covered elsewhere. However a rhino charge is only going to be more damaging than a sable if it runs over you. The point of a lance has no more kinetic energy if it is going at 20mph on a rhino or 20mph on a sable. That all saId, it's not the end of the world because most times the difference is pretty marginal when it comes to riding beasts and it satisfies the relative dramatic impact of a rhino charge versus a sable one.

[styopa]

38 minutes ago, deleriad said:

Well I did note that these things might be covered elsewhere. However a rhino charge is only going to be more damaging than a sable if it runs over you. The point of a lance has no more kinetic energy if it is going at 20mph on a rhino or 20mph on a sable. That all saId, it's not the end of the world because most times the difference is pretty marginal when it comes to riding beasts and it satisfies the relative dramatic impact of a rhino charge versus a sable one.

The damage from the overhand spear/lance might be based on the speed, it's true, but the morale check (if there was such a thing) would CERTAINLY be based on the SIZ of the mount. 

[David Scott]

13 hours ago, TrippyHippy said:

Does this mean it wouldn't work at night?

Of course it wouldn’t. It’s dark so you couldn’t see it. 

[Al.]

Certainly explains why Trolls don't use Bows.

They're no bloody use down below in the Dark.

[Yelm's Light]

6 hours ago, deleriad said:

I'm surprised that the charge with large damage bonus still works as it does. Surely the issue is speed rather than size. That said, a regiment of Dragon Snail Lancers would be rather funny...

No speed bonus for joo...

 

ETA:  Bah...ninjaed...

Edited April 17, 2018 by Yelm's Light

[g33k]

15 hours ago, deleriad said:

However a rhino charge is only going to be more damaging than a sable if it runs over you. The point of a lance has no more kinetic energy if it is going at 20mph on a rhino or 20mph on a sable.

A well-couched lance actually carries (at least some of) the force of the mount.  That lance-tip DOES hit harder with a bigger mount, because they're all connected -- it's not a missile weapon.

Try this:  take a sharp pencil, and tape it to the side of an 8oz hammer.  The side, mind!  Where a pointfirst impact can jar the pencil loose from the tape and have it slide along the hammerhead.  Tie the hammer overhead, from 2 offset points so "direction" (along the length of the pencil) is maintained when it swings; and set the assembly swinging.

Now put your denim-covered leg in the way of the pencil-point.

I daresay any of us will do this and intuitively understand the risk is minimal.

Now repeat the steps above, carefully using the same amount of tape to preserve the pencil's resistance-to-being-jarred-loose, EXCEPT -- use a 10-lb sledge instead of an 8oz hammer.

Set it swinging again.

And let the 10-lb sledge drive the pencil into your leg (or not).

I take it back -- use sheets of paper to test penetration!

F=ma and there's just more "m" backing a rhino-lancer.

 

Edited April 18, 2018 by g33k