Hazia?

[g33k]

So, it's a hallucinogen; primarily smoked.  Are there other ways it's taken?

Do Newtlings dissolve it in water and immerse themselves?  Speaking of which -- does it even affect Newtlings?  Dragonnewts?  Trolls?  Elves?  Dwarfs?

Is it (in addition to a hallucinogen) also an "upper" or a "downer"?  Is it neither?  Does it depend (and on what)?

Does the canon even specify this much detail?

TYVM!

 

[Yelm's Light]

Gesundheit.

If it's anything like in Earthsea, it's a serious downer.

[Noita]

Why can't Newtlings just smoke it like everyone else, that's what water pipes are for.

It is an euphoric in my world.

I think trolls use spores to get off chops. Smoking involves fire.

[Noita]

It probably turns Dragonewts normal for a while....

[Steve]

According to Pavis: Gateway to Adventure p. 192 it produces visions and a state of euphoria.

[Richard S.]

9 hours ago, Iskallor said:

It probably turns Dragonewts normal for a while....

How to have a dragonnewt PC, step 1

[g33k]

12 hours ago, Iskallor said:

It probably turns Dragonewts normal for a while....

This gives me an excellent idea, actually:  the opposite, they get more dragon-like.

It induces in them an exalted, "more-draconic" state; their powers are greater, their access to draconic-style magic is greater, etc etc etc.  It seems like a path onward toward becoming a True Dragon.  But it's a dead-end path, a crutch that's much harder to abandon and much-more-delaying than if they had never used it.

 

[David Scott]

On 17/04/2018 at 2:47 AM, g33k said:

Is it (in addition to a hallucinogen) also an "upper" or a "downer"?

I believe Glorantha likely has a full range of plants used for ritual/medical/pleasure and that Hazia is the boring "weed" of Genertela.. If you are interested I suggest you find a copy of Narcotic Plants Paperback by William A. Emboden, I've the 1982 revised and enlarged paperback:

https://www.amazon.com/Narcotic-Plants-William-Emboden/dp/0020628404

It's an ethnobotanical/ethnography of a vast range of plants and fungi of our world. It splits them into

• The Hypnotica, the sedatives and tranquillisers, including the opiates.
• Tobacco
• Hallucinogens. Including snuffing tubes for various dried plants made of bird skulls, ceramic or hollow stems.
• Stimulants, with an excellent section on tea and coffee. I had no idea that Haysan tea was smoked in England the 1900s.
• Inebrients, including alcohol.

One of methods of consumption for one of the plants involves slicing gashes into your scalp then rubbing the bulb into the cut...

and this particular section could be an adventure in itself:

Quote

In October of each year, the Manes and Manduru Kus of the lower and middle Tapajo’s in the Amazon collect seeds of a woody liana, Paullinia cupana_ These seeds mold quite easily, so they are ground and mixed with cassava flour, from the root of Manihot esculenta, and water to form a chocolate-colored paste. Guarana paste is shaped into cylinders that are baked slowly over wood fires until they are as hard as stone. Dried guarana sticks are shipped to Bolivia and Matto Grosso where they are grated on the tongue of a piraracu, a large fish of the Amazon. One-half teaspoon of guarana shavings in a cup of sweetened hot or cold water is as indispensable to these people as is our morning cup of coffee—and a lot more potent, for guarana contains about five per cent caffeine. Related species of Paullinia contain as much as three per cent caffeien in their bark, and to the Indian of the Colombian Putumayo yopo squeezed from the bark of Paullinia yopo is his entire sustenance until noon each day. Ritualistically, the Indians of this area avoid food before midday, and this strong stimulant stays fatigue and hunger. Paullinia cupana is thought to have been in cultivation for over thousands of years, whereas coffee was not introduced into Brazil until 1774.

It's not going to be any good unless it's the correct fish tongue.

So smoking, snuffing, eating, drinking, inhaling while in a tent, incised into a cut, complex preparation methods, just so it works (Ayushka), stuck in your cheek like tobacco or coca with lime (not the fruit).

 

[g33k]

1 hour ago, David Scott said:

I believe Glorantha likely has a full range of plants used for ritual/medical/pleasure and that Hazia is the boring "weed" of Genertela..

I'm sure Gloranthat DOES have just as much variety as the Earth does... or more.  But frankly, Hazia is only as "boring" as you let it be.  It's as boring as Prax, as Sartar, as any other bit of the 70s/80s canon.

However... a hallucinogen & euphoric?  Not so much "boring weed" to me.  Sounds more like it's based on shrooms, mescal, opium.

I will almost-certainly include it as key to at least one Visionquest / Sprit-plane tradition IMG.  And (in lieu of canonical data) probably figure some interesting variant-effects in non-human races.  I'll probably throw in normal real-world substances, and invent other Glorantha-only ones (should my group investigate that direction).

But I VERY much appreciate your link to Emboden's book.  I shall probably get it from the library for the first-pass "just in case" coverage, and buy it if my group seems to want to pursue this area.

Edited April 22, 2018 by g33k
tyvm

[Mankcam]

On 4/18/2018 at 1:02 AM, Steve said:

According to Pavis: Gateway to Adventure p. 192 it produces visions and a state of euphoria.

Yep this is the description I tend to follow.

I've always treated Hazia as a stand-in for general tobacco and Cannabis ('pot'), but if you have enough of it then it's more like Psilocybin ('magic mushrooms').

Small doses it's like relaxing tobacco; moderate doses it's recreational euphoria; high doses it's assists religious and magical activities by shifting consciousness levels.

Edited April 22, 2018 by Mankcam

[MOB]

56 minutes ago, Mankcam said:

Yep this is the description I tend to follow.

I've always treated Hazia as a stand-in for general tobacco and Cannabis ('pot'), but if you have enough of it then it's more like Psilocybin ('magic mushrooms').

Small doses it's like relaxing tobacco; moderate doses it's recreational euphoria; high doses it's assists religious and magical activities by shifting consciousness levels.

The intent is yes to all of the above. Hazia can ingested in a variety of ways. If you take enough, under the right circumstances the effects are the same as the Discorporate spell. 

[Psullie]

For my games, Portomekan pipe weed and Kafl = tobacco. Hazia = marijuana

9 hours ago, MOB said:

The intent is yes to all of the above. Hazia can ingested in a variety of ways. If you take enough, under the right circumstances the effects are the same as the Discorporate spell. 

however for the uninitiated the effects are the lesser known Discombobulate spell

[Jeff]

53 minutes ago, Psullie said:

For my games, Portomekan pipe weed and Kafl = tobacco. Hazia = marijuana

however for the uninitiated the effects are the lesser known Discombobulate spell

Hazia, as described in the RuneQuest rules, is far more potent that marijuana. When smoked or inhaled, it allows the soul to discorporate from the body, just like the Rune spell or shamanic ability. Worryingly, this effect lasts 1D6 hours! This is Glorantha, so it REALLY does that. And it is addictive as hell.

That being said, we have one character who routinely abuses hazia in order to discorporate, deal with spiritual entities, and even engage in Spirit Combat.

[Yelm's Light]

2 hours ago, Jeff said:

Hazia, as described in the RuneQuest rules, is far more potent that marijuana. When smoked or inhaled, it allows the soul to discorporate from the body, just like the Rune spell or shamanic ability. Worryingly, this effect lasts 1D6 hours! This is Glorantha, so it REALLY does that. And it is addictive as hell.

That being said, we have one character who routinely abuses hazia in order to discorporate, deal with spiritual entities, and even engage in Spirit Combat.

It sounds very much like the Earthsea version.

[Psullie]

5 hours ago, Jeff said:

Hazia, as described in the RuneQuest rules, is far more potent that marijuana. When smoked or inhaled, it allows the soul to discorporate from the body, just like the Rune spell or shamanic ability. Worryingly, this effect lasts 1D6 hours! This is Glorantha, so it REALLY does that. And it is addictive as hell.

That being said, we have one character who routinely abuses hazia in order to discorporate, deal with spiritual entities, and even engage in Spirit Combat.

So it's more like opium? (chasing the dragon with serious consequences) Just wondering if there is a social aspect or is it primarily a shamanistic totem. The plantations in River of Cradles suggest a thriving blackmarket economy which would only be supported by recreational use... Are Hazia dens a thing?

[Joerg]

16 minutes ago, Psullie said:

So it's more like opium? (chasing the dragon with serious consequences) Just wondering if there is a social aspect or is it primarily a shamanistic totem. The plantations in River of Cradles suggest a thriving blackmarket economy which would only be supported by recreational use... Are Hazia dens a thing?

Given the shamanic nature of the Black Fangs, I would expect them to have a corner of the hazia market.

I don't think that hazia use or addiction are criminalized in Glorantha (outside of the Sun Dome prissies). Imperial privilege circumvention on the other hand will be persecuted heavy-handedly. Hazia is likely a high-tax item, making unlicensed Hazia trade a capital offense against the Empire.

Given the discorporation effect, I wonder whether putting several heavy smokers in the same basement would be a good idea.

[Noita]

I think outside of religious ceremonies it is frowned upon and perhaps illegal if needed to be for the adventure.

Shamans can carry with no problems. It's the real reason they are allowed to tag along with the other pcs...

[Joerg]

37 minutes ago, Iskallor said:

I think outside of religious ceremonies it is frowned upon and perhaps illegal if needed to be for the adventure.

Shamans can carry with no problems. It's the real reason they are allowed to tag along with the other pcs...

Sure, if your adventure needs a situation where it is contraband, make it so, The reason why may vary, though.

Hazia appears to be a meditation aid, so who is to say that the person reclining with the pipe and lost wherever is not engaging in a private religious observation? Likewise, orgiastic excesses are part of the Lunar experience, and not just simple pleasure-seeking. Traditional Christian church services are full of contemplation aids, like the communal singing of hymns, the drone of the organ pervading the body, and short meditative sequences. They may sometimes feel archaic, but they have powerful subliminal influence, something the modern forms of service often lack.

You said shamans can carry with no problems - but that's registered (and sworn in) shamans only. Rogue shamans may be unable to hide their nature, but that doesn't give them an imperial carry permit any more than every off-duty mercenary may lug about in full equipment. They may very well be politely asked to give up their stores for safe-keeping. And too bad about the mice or roaches in our storage room...

[Noita]

So would priests and shamans be addicted then? If average folk are using it then it could lead to possessions and ....

 

Ghost busters!

[Psullie]

19 minutes ago, Iskallor said:

So would priests and shamans be addicted then? If average folk are using it then it could lead to possessions and ....

 

Ghost busters!

Nochet Vice Squad 

[Psullie]

23 hours ago, Jeff said:

And it is addictive as hell.

That being said, we have one character who routinely abuses hazia in order to discorporate, deal with spiritual entities, and even engage in Spirit Combat.

but are there any side effects (in game terms) either from withdrawal or engaging spirits while tripping the light fantastic? If your NPC it taking the short cut to the spirit world what are the long term risks?

[jajagappa]

1 hour ago, Psullie said:

If your NPC it taking the short cut to the spirit world what are the long term risks?

Permanent discorporation.

[Jeff]

24 minutes ago, jajagappa said:

Permanent discorporation.

Encountering things on the Spirit World that you have no training or aptitude in dealing with.

[Joerg]

2 hours ago, Psullie said:

but are there any side effects (in game terms) either from withdrawal or engaging spirits while tripping the light fantastic? If your NPC it taking the short cut to the spirit world what are the long term risks?

Coming back and finding your body in dominant possession of something else, since you didn't leave a fetch behind to guard the body. Another possible hazard of smoking in a hazia den, you never know in which body you will awake.

This could be a reason why bodyguards would be prohibited from using hazia - an assassin could infiltrate in their body. For spies,  a form of covert possession would be even more interesting, allowing a ride on the victim during its official functions.

The good news is that since you are discorporate, you can engage the spirit in spirit combat without having to wait for a shaman.

The bad news is that you will probably have spent most of your magic while traveling about without your body, and are in dire need of it to regenerate your magic, so you would have to attack the occupant at your weakest.

[Psullie]

1 hour ago, jajagappa said:

Permanent discorporation.

 

46 minutes ago, Jeff said:

Encountering things on the Spirit World that you have no training or aptitude in dealing with.

ah it goes a bit Philip K Dick then...