What's Happening with RQG #2 - The Gods of Glorantha

[MOB]

What's been keeping Jeff busy after the RQG rules themselves headed over into layout? Find out here...

https://www.chaosium.com/blogwhats-happening-with-rqg-2-the-gods-of-glorantha

[Psullie]

Awesome!

[GianniVacca]

As a RQ referee, I do hope we will also be able to have access to the 'cults of terror' write-ups!

[simonh]

I absolutely love that picture. One of the characters in one of my HQ campaigns was a Lunar temple dancer, wish I'd had that illustration back then.

Simon Hibbs

[Mankcam]

This is welcome news, except I would really want to some of the main Chaos Cults included in The Gods Of Glorantha, it doesn't feel right leaving them out!

[g33k]

1 hour ago, Mankcam said:

This is welcome news, except I would really want to some of the main Chaos Cults included in The Gods Of Glorantha, it doesn't feel right leaving them out!

Agreed!  Jeff wrote:

Quote

 ... they are really not intended as player character cults. But having that done now helps us have resources for the scenario writers.

Those of us who GM outside the "official" adventures are still "scenario writers" and want the Terror just as much as your official writers do.

I dislike this decision A LOT.

Speaking as a GM, this book is MUCH less useful to me than it could -- and should -- be.  And note:  I am the primary customer in my group; even if I "sell" this game to my group & RQG becomes a favorite, none of them are likely to buy anything beyond the core rulebook.

I presume my group isn't terribly atypical in this regard.

I'd rather Chaosium drop a third or so of the minor deities in favor of some good ol' CoT goodness... errrr... badness.

[styopa]

9 minutes ago, g33k said:

I'd rather Chaosium drop a third or so of the minor deities in favor of some good ol' CoT goodness... errrr... badness.

Seconded, although I'd up that to half or more, or even ALL the of the minor deities.  I know that it might be painful to excise gods like Valind from their first substantial treatment in the game, but it's a zero-sum issue of space vs utility to players/DMs more than anything.  

As much as Glorantha is made to be a living, breathing place by its uniquely (in FRPGs) immanent deities, the simple reality is that we can't have stories without drama, we can't really have  drama without foils, and in Glorantha those major foils ARE the Cults of Chaos.  To omit them in favor of peripheral gods and goddesses? ... to me it's as important as prioritizing a chapter on combat mechanics over a chapter on architecture - the latter might be very interesting in understanding how Glorantha looks, but is clearly secondary to something needed to make the game work as a game. 

"...cults that feature major overhauls like Orlanth, Ernalda, Maran Gor, Lodril, and Yelm..."

(looks nervously at the term 'major overhauls' and braces self for substantive retcon) Oh dear.

[Grievous]

Drop the minor deities? Heeeeeeel no. However, the points are valid that those baddies are much needed as well, so I would urge Chaosium to get them to the would-be buyer's hands in some other way. Many ways to do that, of course, but to name a few: a PDF only supplement, or maybe as part of other published scenarios where they are relevant or maybe in another GM's book down the line, etc.

[Jeff]

1 hour ago, g33k said:

Agreed!  Jeff wrote:

Those of us who GM outside the "official" adventures are still "scenario writers" and want the Terror just as much as your official writers do.

I dislike this decision A LOT.

Speaking as a GM, this book is MUCH less useful to me than it could -- and should -- be.  And note:  I am the primary customer in my group; even if I "sell" this game to my group & RQG becomes a favorite, none of them are likely to buy anything beyond the core rulebook.

I presume my group isn't terribly atypical in this regard.

I'd rather Chaosium drop a third or so of the minor deities in favor of some good ol' CoT goodness... errrr... badness.

I may need to hand out smelling salts to help those of you who collapsed with the vapors.  

I plan to publish Gods of Chaos. But after Gods of Glorantha. I would have waited to finish the draft of Gods of Chaos until after I did the art briefs for the next wave of books, but concluded I needed to finish it so that my writers have it as a resource as they put their scenarios and campaigns together. I also plan to add additional content to Gods of Chaos to make it more useful to gamemasters.

Gods of Glorantha, on the other hand, is an absolute core book and I know I need to get it into production as soon as possible. Its probably the book that has me most excited of anything that is currently in the pipeline, and to be honest, the book that has taught me the most about Glorantha since I did the Guide.

 

[styopa]

56 minutes ago, Jeff said:

I may need to hand out smelling salts to help those of you who collapsed with the vapors.  

I plan to publish Gods of Chaos. But after Gods of Glorantha. I would have waited to finish the draft of Gods of Chaos until after I did the art briefs for the next wave of books, but concluded I needed to finish it so that my writers have it as a resource as they put their scenarios and campaigns together.

Never mind, not changing anyone's mind anyway.

Edited April 19, 2018 by styopa

[Jeff]

1 minute ago, styopa said:

Reassuring and not at the same time.  Nicely done. 

Glad to hear that Gods of Chaos is slated....eventually.  Consistent, given the historical presentation of CoP, CoT.

But "the vapors" as you so charmingly put it come from the recognition that your (implied, now explicit) priorities are those of a Gloranthan academic and aesthete, not someone trying to play a game.

What you've described is in chronological order:

• (Necessary Game Stuff A + secondary and tertiary interesting bits because they're thematically appropriate)

followed by

• (Necessary Game Stuff B + secondary and tertiary interesting bits because they're thematically appropriate)

 

What both I and (I believe) g33k are saying would be more immediately useful to game players would be:

(Necessary Game Stuff A + Necessary Game Stuff B.)

...with trivia to follow.

 

I have no doubt you and I significantly disagree on what's 'necessary', but you even state that more stuff was going to fall in between until it belatedly occurred to you that Necessary Stuff B was, in fact....necessary...

Actually, I think you have it reversed. My priorities are what is necessary to get the line up and running and selling. And part of that is making sure there is certain material necessary for other writers other than myself to write scenarios and campaigns, so far more material can be produced. There's organised play campaigns to do, scenario books and plenty more - all of which requires the existence of certain foundational books.

Gods of Chaos was going to wait until I finished the art briefs so we could get more books in production. If I wasn't already in such a writing groove from doing Gods, it would have made more sense to wait (since those briefs are necessary for there to be books), but I struck while the iron was hot (and while I knew I could write a dozen chaos cults pretty quickly after doing almost fifty other cults).

 

 

[simonh]

Personally I'd rather have a separate book dedicated to the gods fo Chaos, misc other sinister or malign deities and related background material and GM resources. I thought the previous separation and special treatment for those worked really well. This way the Gods and the Gods of Chaos books can have their own distinctive personalities and serve different purposes. Cramming them both into the same book doesn't seem very sensible, especially since it looks like the result would be excessively big.

Simon Hibbs

Edited April 19, 2018 by simonh

[Jeff]

3 minutes ago, simonh said:

Personally I'd rather have a separate book dedicated to the gods fo Chaos, misc other sinister or malign deities and related background material and GM resources. I thought the previous separation and special treatment for those worked really well. This way the Gods and the Gods of Chaos books can have their own distinctive personalities and serve different purposes. Cramming them both into the same book doesn't seem very sensible, especially since it looks like the result would be excessively big.

Simon Hibbs

My sentiments exactly.

[g33k]

1 hour ago, Jeff said:

Actually, I think you have it reversed. My priorities are what is necessary to get the line up and running and selling. And part of that is making sure there is certain material necessary for other writers other than myself to write scenarios and campaigns, so far more material can be produced. There's organised play campaigns to do, scenario books and plenty more - all of which requires the existence of certain foundational books.

Gods of Chaos was going to wait until I finished the art briefs so we could get more books in production. If I wasn't already in such a writing groove from doing Gods, it would have made more sense to wait (since those briefs are necessary for there to be books), but I struck while the iron was hot (and while I knew I could write a dozen chaos cults pretty quickly after doing almost fifty other cults).

This all sounds good; REALLY good (at least in terms of content).  For selfish reasons, I'm glad you fast-tracked the Chaos gods!  I think it was also a prudent creative/productive move (as you say, in the groove & striking while the iron's hot).  I get your point about needing to get stuff to market.

But I hope you will keep in mind the value of "GoC" content to the GMs (and their groups) -- as @styopa puts it, Necessary Game Stuff -- and prioritize getting (at least SOME of) it out there MUCH sooner than you've laid out above!

Maybe pre-issue a dozen Cults as $1.99-a-piece PDFs, clearly-marked-up as "Early-Access / Non-Canonical / Known to Arachne Solara to cause cancer and birth defects or other reproductive harm" or some such (ok, so the Prop65 warning is a Californian in-joke; but still).  Consider it "nuChaosium:  Return of the Monograph!" or something...

Possibly even a better notion... actually, I think an excellent notion:  Kickstart Gods of Chaos. and launch the project soon... REALLY soon, like ...  as soon as the core rulebook drops !

Wait, I'm not crazy!  ... or maybe I am, but it's not a crazy idea !   Many GM's will be backers, and you can get the content to us really promptly as early-release "draft" material.  Here's the brilliant part:  you build into the KS project a VERY long-term timeline for final production.  Figure out your most-realistic estimate for when you THINK it would hit market via "ordinary" (non-KS) development/printing timeframe; pad it with some unlikely-but-not-outrageous "just in case" slippage.  Then add 6mo to a year.  And make THAT the announced KS timeframe!  You're golden!  You shut up the whiners like me, you get your cash up-front, and if you hit your planned/internal-estimate timeframe you've produced way-ahead of announced schedule (how many RPG publishers get a book to market SIX MONTHS ahead of time???!?) but you've got that big ol' delay built-in "just in case."

 

 

[Jeff]

Just now, g33k said:

This all sounds good; REALLY good (at least in terms of content).  For selfish reasons, I'm glad you fast-tracked the Chaos gods!  I think it was also a prudent creative/productive move (as you say, in the groove & striking while the iron's hot).  I get your point about needing to get stuff to market.

But I hope you will keep in mind the value of "GoC" content to the GMs (and their groups) -- as @styopa puts it, Necessary Game Stuff -- and prioritize getting (at least SOME of) it out there MUCH sooner than you've laid out above!

Maybe pre-issue a dozen Cults as $1.99-a-piece PDFs, clearly-marked-up as "Early-Access / Non-Canonical / Known to Arachne Solara to cause cancer and birth defects or other reproductive harm" or some such (ok, so the Prop65 warning is a Californian in-joke; but still).  Consider it "nuChaosium:  Return of the Monograph!" or something...

Possibly even a better notion... actually, I think an excellent notion:  Kickstart Gods of Chaos. and launch the project soon... REALLY soon, like ...  as soon as the core rulebook drops !

Wait, I'm not crazy!  ... or maybe I am, but it's not a crazy idea !   Many GM's will be backers, and you can get the content to us really promptly as early-release "draft" material.  Here's the brilliant part:  you build into the KS project a VERY long-term timeline for final production.  Figure out your most-realistic estimate for when you THINK it would hit market via "ordinary" (non-KS) development/printing timeframe; pad it with some unlikely-but-not-outrageous "just in case" slippage.  Then add 6mo to a year.  And make THAT the announced KS timeframe!  You're golden!  You shut up the whiners like me, you get your cash up-front, and if you hit your planned/internal-estimate timeframe you've produced way-ahead of announced schedule (how many RPG publishers get a book to market SIX MONTHS ahead of time???!?) but you've got that big ol' delay built-in "just in case."

 

 

Guys, I know you are excited about this, but please.... STOP.  Seriously. Kickstarting it, OR ANYTHING ELSE, is not going to speed up the process. 

[g33k]

2 minutes ago, Jeff said:

Guys, I know you are excited about this, but please.... STOP.  Seriously. Kickstarting it, OR ANYTHING ELSE, is not going to speed up the process. 

<sigh>

Sorry.

 

[Jeff]

Not trying to be harsh, but the limiting factor on these books is me.  It isn't a money issue - it is time. 

[Joerg]

I would like to remind people that Glorantha isn't all about fighting Chaos. The cosmic conflict goes on between the four guardians of the directions and the four or five major contestants for the center of the world, including Orlanth, the Red Goddess, and Kyger Litor. There is one Chaos contestant (who isn't the Red Goddess), but that plot remains shrouded in mystery for the time being.

There are enough dangerous things to do, like fighting Sir Ethilrist or trying to reason with Harrek. A somewhat verbose Bestiary  with a few sample spells/powers should be enough to introduce broos, vampires or scorpionmen to your game.

I'm not entirely sure that I am looking forward to a book "Gods of Chaos". Compared to Gods of Glorantha, this appears to end up as a rather slim volume. 

I would like to get more Otherworld/Outer World entities and their deities/divine ancestors. We have seen quite a few underworlds mentioned, with denizens like the Diokos horse-like demons of Ethilrist, or the Shadzorings of Greater Darkness and Dawn Age Alkoth. There are Luatha, Altinelans and similar Outer World entities to encounter, whether on explorative journeys or on the hero planes.

[David Scott]

I really hated how Chaosium released Cults of Prax and then we had to wait for cults of terror. It really ruined Runequest for me and now Jeff’s going to do it again. I’m deeply disappointed that Chaosium are wasting their art budget when they should be trying to clone Jeff. We might as well give up on all of it now.

[Jeff]

1 minute ago, David Scott said:

I really hated how Chaosium released Cults of Prax and then we had to wait for cults of terror. It really ruined Runequest for me and now Jeff’s going to do it again. I’m deeply disappointed that Chaosium are wasting their art budget when they should be trying to clone Jeff. We might as well give up on all of it now.

I think we might be able to clone me, but the difficulty is that memory duplication process. That gets expensive! I think we could possible afford to create a newborn genetically identical clone of me, but with all the skills and knowledge of a new-born,

[David Scott]

 Another alternative would be to reduce the number of cults to what we got in Cults of Prax or CoT. That will give you plenty more time. As you can tell those two books were the gold standard for me. Then you can just trickle the cults out in the odd supplement.

[Psullie]

well the good news is that there will be good quality RuneQuest & Glorantha stuff coming down river for the foreseeable future, 

[Al.]

I'm if not ethically then instinctively opposed to saying nice things about a company on it's house forum; but, I suspect that the market who want GoT quickly are probably those of us who would be prepared to (bat)wing it or have our own collection of rules and guidelines for the bad (or do I mean misunderstood?) Gods. New customers/initiates to Glorantha will be much more interested in the Cults that their characters can join. And will be quite happy to wait for the GM to get hold of writeups which give the enemies of creation the same kind of advantages that their characters have. Thinking back I'm sure that it was a long way into my GMing career before I had my players encounter Chaotics at all, certainly not ones with Cult affiliations.

Just for balance: you're all barstewards, the lot of you.

[styopa]

3 hours ago, Jeff said:

I think we might be able to clone me, but the difficulty is that memory duplication process. That gets expensive! I think we could possible afford to create a newborn genetically identical clone of me, but with all the skills and knowledge of a new-born,

Well if we manage the tech to generate a full grown clone almost instantly, I'd imagine memory-mirroring would just be a piffle to accomplish.

[Joerg]

I would advise against getting that clone. It might take Jeff away from his keyboard for too long.

On the other hand, things may be delegated - Cults of Terror consists of submissions to Chaosium, and while these were heavily rewritten by house staff, a lot of the initial work was done by volunteers/freelancers.