Eleven Lights question on ability types

[jajagappa]

In the Eleven Lights, there are a number of "monsters" which are given sets of abilities described as:  Significant, Exceptional, and Legendary.

The book does not describe how to utilize these, nor are such described or defined in HeroQuest Glorantha or SKoH.  Are these derived from an older version of HQ? 

And how are they perceived as played?  Do Significant Abilities map to Hard, Exceptional to Very Hard, and Legendary as Nearly Impossible?  Or used in some other way?

[Yelm's Light]

Hero Wars, maybe.  I don't remember that from HQ1.

[Steve]

The Coming Storm has one occurrence of this too, for the Giants.

 

[Aprewett]

This is exactly the question I had. As looking to inspiration from RQ, not that HQ is the same and I have not looked to much at the RQ system, but if you were going to put creatures toughness into HQ, to get a fell for how tough they could be. Looking at converting Sun County, so how tough is a Broo or Pumpkinhead. I know it is all based of the fiction, but a base power would be good, to better portray them.

Edited April 25, 2018 by Aprewett

[Tindalos]

The ratings are actually from HQ2, page 104.

Exceptional abilities can be used as High or Very High resistances. (Note that Very High in HQ2 was +9, rather than +W)

Legendary abilities are +1W (Which would be Very High in HQ:G terms) to Nearly Impossible resistances.

Significant abilities would presumably cover Low to Moderate resistances.

[Ian Cooper]

On 4/25/2018 at 10:57 PM, Tindalos said:

The ratings are actually from HQ2, page 104.

Exceptional abilities can be used as High or Very High resistances. (Note that Very High in HQ2 was +9, rather than +W)

Legendary abilities are +1W (Which would be Very High in HQ:G terms) to Nearly Impossible resistances.

Significant abilities would presumably cover Low to Moderate resistances.

Spot On.

I'm in two minds if it remains necessary to have these values in a HQ2 genre pack. You could just describe the creature and its attacks and let the GM pick the resistance. But some folks find it helpful to have a guide to what might be an appropriate 'scale' for how tough a creature is seen as being 'in-world' and I can sympathize with that. We all know that a dragon has a nasty breath weapon that means going up against a full-grown dragon and choosing a Moderate resistance probably strains credibility. But  a Floogamwit? How tough are they? Are folks afraid of them?

We should probably have excerpted the HQ scale into an appendix. Sorry.

 

[davecake]

I find it helpful to have abilities in this format, even if I don't necessarily keep to those ratings very strictly. 

It is important to note that we hopefully have a few players who play HeroQuest, but not RuneQuest etc, and so don't immediately have a good sense of the 'attributes' of any uniquely Gloranthan creatures. Without having a sense of scale of how challenging HeroQuest creatures etc are supposed to be, it can be quite difficult. I think this is a flaw in the beastiary pat of HeroQuest Glorantha - a lot of creatures are not described in enough detail to get any idea of how dangerous they usually are, and sometimes not even the physical size, and this is a problem most of us tend not to notice because we already know from other (eg RQ, or even HW) sources, but I think could be a real issue for some new GMs. 

I think it would be helped by adding notable weaknesses, if any. And for HQ Glorantha purposes, maybe notating some magical abilities with a Rune. 

And yes, I know the 'difficulty depends on story' mantra, but even if you stick to that rigidly, you need to know which choices of opponent make the level of difficulty plausible, and/or appropriate story framing eg want to make an encounter with a minotaur easy? Make it a contest of wits.

[Aprewett]

Exactly  I feel I have to read RQ before I can play HQ, I dont have the time for that.

[JonL]

On 5/1/2018 at 12:06 AM, davecake said:

It is important to note that we hopefully have a few players who play HeroQuest, but not RuneQuest etc, and so don't immediately have a good sense of the 'attributes' of any uniquely Gloranthan creatures. Without having a sense of scale of how challenging HeroQuest creatures etc are supposed to be, it can be quite difficult. I think this is a flaw in the beastiary pat of HeroQuest Glorantha - a lot of creatures are not described in enough detail to get any idea of how dangerous they usually are, and sometimes not even the physical size, and this is a problem most of us tend not to notice because we already know from other (eg RQ, or even HW) sources, but I think could be a real issue for some new GMs. 

As someone whose entry to Glorantha in general was through HQG, I very much concur. HQ relies on having a solid understanding of the fictional elements of the game world universe in order to apply it's very abstract mechanics appropriately, as compared to other games where a lot of information about unreal elements are actually conveyed through mechanical descriptions themselves. There are a lot of things about the setting for which you don't get clear or detailed guidance from the book on what is plausible, or what is typical vs extraordinary capability (the Devotee-level feats representing an implicit ceiling for Initiate-level magic is a noteworthy exception).  

Quote

And yes, I know the 'difficulty depends on story' mantra, but even if you stick to that rigidly, you need to know which choices of opponent make the level of difficulty plausible, and/or appropriate story framing eg want to make an encounter with a minotaur easy? Make it a contest of wits.

It's worth mentioning that right alongside all the story pacing verbiage, "credibility" is also specifically identified in the rules as a factor in setting resistance. Unless one's game is Fairy Tale or Silver-Age Comics like in its tone, sometimes things are going to be easy or nigh-impossible because they simply are. Credibility also goes to the heart of why some abilities are just the right thing for a given challenge while others are a stretch. How much you rely on story factors vs how much you rely on credibility is a big part of how you dial your HQ experience between epic & gritty (the other big part being how you portray nature of consequences of defeat, but that's another discussion).

[Ian Cooper]

All, this conversation is very useful. @JonL your contribution, given HQ was how you met Glorantha is particularly useful in understanding this.

[Aprewett]

Could the new bestiary have a HQ section?

[Oracle]

1 hour ago, Aprewett said:

Could the new bestiary have a HQ section?

Do you mean the Bestiary for RuneQuest Glorantha? Just ignore the RuneQuest stat blocks and use the descriptions. What else do you need for HeroQuest (Glorantha)?

[JonL]

4 hours ago, Aprewett said:

Could the new bestiary have a HQ section?

You can still get the Hero Wars-era Anaxial's Roster in PDF for a mere $5 (though I bet the new RQ bestiary will be prettier).

[SDLeary]

8 hours ago, Aprewett said:

Could the new bestiary have a HQ section?

I would like to second this. Even if its just an appendix on how to take thing and convert. And while Anaxial's Roster is still available, I bet things will have changed a bit in the lasts 18 or so years.

And to extend this to HQ and its future in general, I would like to suggest this type of adaption for ANY Gloranthan supplement, and perhaps any Chaosium supplements (thinking of things like Malleus Monstrorum, though I might like to see something like Masks with this too). It would at least give people an idea of how differences of scale might progress, even if they modify said scales for their own games.

SDLeary

 

Edited June 12, 2018 by SDLeary
context

[Aprewett]

True Oracle, but I was just following on from the conversation in this thread. From a new to the setting player - needs an shortcut - NPtS.

[Oracle]

Ah, I've missed the connection to the original question.

But even so a HeroQuest (Glorantha) section in the new bestiary is not likely to appear. Maybe a sentence in every description, which simply states, if the abilities of the respective beast are Significant, Exceptional, or Legendary?