What is is about Stormbringer?

[TheyCalledMeMrDennis]

On 6/14/2018 at 3:10 PM, Algesan said:

IIRC, the BOC and Hawkwind's songs were both prior to the release of the RPG, I would think you are right.  Ahhh, at the risk of sticking my foot in my mouth since I think I brought up the songs originally, they helped create the popular climate for the RPG to gain its popularity along with ease of setup and play, etc.  I do remember conversations about how it was just impossible to simulate the Elric saga using OD&D...heh, although one GM at the time could have probably done it, but he already tossed elves out as a player race because (as he put it),: How stupid would a virtually immortal race be to let their children run around with non-magical gear at 1st level....

You're probably right about them not knowing about the RPG, though Chronicle of the Black Sword by Hawkwind was released in 1985.  

[smiorgan]

On 5/27/2018 at 2:26 AM, Pentallion said:

Did anyone ever write a cool song like this for D&D?

Or write a song about a god of D&D like this:

Stormbringer just rocks.  That's all you need to know.  Stormbringer effing rocks.

I mean seriously:

I agree Stormbringer rocks. But the songs were not written for ** Stormbringer the game**, rather for the characters of Elric and Stormbringer (the sword!) or, if you prefer, for **"Stormbringer" the novel**. 

In contrast there are a few songs about D&D that are a lot of fun... 

 

 

[Algesan]

1 hour ago, TheyCalledMeMrDennis said:

You're probably right about them not knowing about the RPG, though Chronicle of the Black Sword by Hawkwind was released in 1985.  

Oops, wait, I missed that album, I've just heard some of the earlier songs from the 70s.  Quick check says Moorcock wrote (or assisted) with the lyrics for one of the songs on Chronicle.

 

No idea if they knew about the RPG, but by then they might have been avid players in 1985.

[Atgxtg]

11 hours ago, Algesan said:

No idea if they knew about the RPG, but by then they might have been avid players in 1985.

Maybe if Moorcock actually played RPGs, he might have gamed with them. But, AFAIK he never has played RPGs. 

[TrippyHippy]

On 6/16/2018 at 5:41 PM, Atgxtg said:

Maybe if Moorcock actually played RPGs, he might have gamed with them. But, AFAIK he never has played RPGs. 

Well, it's not something he would necessarily disclose or discuss. He was certainly aware of the RPG hobby though. 

[smiorgan]

7 hours ago, TrippyHippy said:

Well, it's not something he would necessarily disclose or discuss. He was certainly aware of the RPG hobby though. 

Sure he was. He even contributed the plot for an AD&D scenario about Earl Aubec published on Imagine Magazine.

[Archivist]

What would be a good system for running this today but keeping it simple? For example, I don't think Mythras would be your first choice, as its crunchier

[Atgxtg]

To keep it simple? Probably Strombringer, since it's already set up for it, and you don't have to change anything. Other than that, probably go with whatever D100 game you prefer and port over Strombringer's Sorcery rules (or Sorcery from BRP's BGB), and setting specific coins, gear and weapons. The setting, outside of magic,  is over 99% compatible with pretty much every D100 RPG out there.

Edited June 18, 2018 by Atgxtg

[smiorgan]

1 hour ago, Archivist said:

What would be a good system for running this today but keeping it simple? For example, I don't think Mythras would be your first choice, as its crunchier

If you convert it to d100. Any edition of Stormbringer will work. Including Mongoose MRQ Elric 1-2.

If you go for Stormbringer 5. The Corum book has stats for Jhary a Conel and Whiskers.

If you go for MRQ Elric 1. The Elric Companion also has stats for Jhary and Whiskers.

If you keep it D20 (the scenario is for AD&D1), it might be interesting to use Dragon Lords of Melniboné and D&D3. I'd do this just for finding a use for the damn thing! It would work perfectly.  

Edited June 18, 2018 by smiorgan

[Thot]

1 hour ago, Archivist said:

What would be a good system for running this today but keeping it simple? For example, I don't think Mythras would be your first choice, as its crunchier

I am going to use Mythras from the day after tomorrow on, when the campaign starts. But that's mostly because it's available in German, and I want to support that by using it. If that wasn't a consideration, I'd just use Magic World, because it is (except for a few lacking spells) Stormbringer 6, so to speak.

Edited June 18, 2018 by Thot

[Archivist]

Is magic world simpler than Mythras?

[SDLeary]

1 hour ago, Archivist said:

Is magic world simpler than Mythras?

Yes, its pretty straight forward. Essentially a tweaked version of Stormbringer 5. That boils down to DEX based combat sequencing, attack and parry as single skill, hit points with no locations, Major Wounds... and on. Pretty much as easy as core Cthulhu without Sanity. 

Some complexity can arise if you use magic from the Advanced Sorcery supplement, but magic in the core is pretty straight forward. 

SDLeary

[Thot]

"Stormbringer 6", err, I mean, Magic World uses no hit locations, has fixed base skills, the ever fun random armor... it is not just "essentially" the old Stormbringer 5, but literally, down to many sentences of the rules and much of the art in the books.

I just wish they would have called it more fortunately, to make the relationship to Stormbringer clear. "Stormsinger" or "Wormbringer" or something like that.

[Archivist]

I bought magic world + advanced sorcerer/

[Nick J.]

On 6/19/2018 at 5:30 AM, Archivist said:

I bought magic world + advanced sorcerer/

I think you'll really like them both. Advanced Sorcery in particular can really open up some opportunities to expand and mold the game to your tastes.

Coming from the Shameless Plugs Division (TM), you might find the following helpful for character creation. (Latest beta version is available in the last post) Final version available now.

Edited June 25, 2018 by Nick J.

[Tentacled Whisperer]

Back in the 80s we played almost exclusively the chaosium games including ringworld. Why now 35+ years later do we still play stormbringer/elric? It's the setting, the eternal champion and its the freedom that brings. I also play RQG but for me at least there is a feeling of constrainted by the lore that there isn't with stormbringer. The only limit is your imagination. 

The rules are brp light, its fast, its easy and the setting is great 👍

[Mugen]

On 6/18/2018 at 10:42 PM, Atgxtg said:

To keep it simple? Probably Strombringer, since it's already set up for it, and you don't have to change anything. Other than that, probably go with whatever D100 game you prefer and port over Strombringer's Sorcery rules (or Sorcery from BRP's BGB), and setting specific coins, gear and weapons. The setting, outside of magic,  is over 99% compatible with pretty much every D100 RPG out there.

Combat can be pretty boring, though, especially with highly skilled characters - even though it's also perfectly possible to end a fight on round 1 with just one unparried crit...

I also think beginning characters skills are very low in general.

Edited February 19, 2021 by Mugen

[Atgxtg]

6 hours ago, Mugen said:

Combat can be pretty boring, though, especially with highly skilled characters - even though it's also perfectly possible to end a fight on round 1 with just one unparried crit...

 I think that has a lot to do with expectations. I find that D&D players find RQ/BRP combat to be "boring" becuase of the parries, as it feels to them like nothing happened. Peopel used to other RPGs though tend to find the close calls and whittling down of weapons to be exciting.  

Most of my players like the fact that just about anybody can drop a character with a crtical hit. It keeps the element of danger that my players like. For us, if we know that the opposition has no chance of dropping out characters, then the fight becomes boring. 

I'd might rather run a fight between experienced fighters in BRP than in D&D. 

6 hours ago, Mugen said:

I also think beginning characters skills are very low in general.

Yeah. I think the issue here is that skill score not only represents the chance of success but overall proficiency in a field as well. This doesn't really match up that well. For example the average native speaker has around a 30% skill in thier language, but most people can spell their own name correctly over 99% of the time. Likewise, I'm no master swordsman, but I will probably hit you more often than not, unless you dodge, block or parry. 

Yes, I know that in BRP we are only supposed to roll for task that are stressful, but there are times where that yardstick doesn't always make sense. I doubt someone with Electronics at 5% could make a living at it. 

What would probably help would be to have some sort of relative scaling of skills and difficulties. BRP does have the difficulty multiplies, but they don't get used all that much. I've never seen a GM say that it was EASY to hit someone with a sword (which is is).

Perhaps the best take on this I've seen in a D100 based system was the was FASA handed in in the old Star Trek RPG. There basic tasks were rolled on a D10, so anyone with a 10% skill in, say, shuttlecraft operations, could fly a shuttle around and do routine tasks. There was another tier at skills 40, and characters with less than 40 would have to roll against 40-skill, and past that was the full D100 scale. Maybe something like that might work for BRP? Say roll against 1D10 or 1D20 for simple tasks but be limited to a normal success. 

[Videopete]

Thats where modifiers for tasks comes in. In hackmaster and aces and eights a raw skill check was hard, and normal checks were like +20 and easy checks were +40.

[Kloster]

2 hours ago, Atgxtg said:

For example the average native speaker has around a 30% skill in thier language, but most people can spell their own name correctly over 99% of the time.

One problem is that those values (basic, experienced, professional, expert,...) vary from game to game.

[Joerg]

16 hours ago, Kloster said:

One problem is that those values (basic, experienced, professional, expert,...) vary from game to game.

That's indeed a basic problem with those percentile systems.

RQ used to illustrate proficiency levels for language just fine, with any skill above 30% allowing you to succeed quite well in a normal conversation.

Maybe something like a task system, assigning some sort of competence gauge, would be a better way to do that. The current RQG annual stead management roll is the antithesis of such a use...

[David Scott]

2 hours ago, Joerg said:

That's indeed a basic problem with those percentile systems.

RQ used to illustrate proficiency levels for language just fine, with any skill above 30% allowing you to succeed quite well in a normal conversation.

Maybe something like a task system, assigning some sort of competence gauge, would be a better way to do that. The current RQG annual stead management roll is the antithesis of such a use...

The rules cover this very simply with automatic success. The Language Proficiency table covers knowledge. Likewise with stead management, if it's not dramatic you can say they succeed automatically. In the Harmast example, with -30%, it's dramatic enough for a roll.

[albesias]

I first read skills at a capability level and from there I know if a dice roll is needed or not, based frequently on several factors like, enviroment, dramatic opportunity, time ... 15% means different things at differents moments.

Just let the game flows and take advantage of the uncertainty factor.

[ThornPlutonius]

On 6/13/2018 at 12:28 PM, colinabrett said:

IIRC Hawkwind definitely were aware of Stormbringer/Elric. One of their albums is Chronicle of the Black Sword (of which I have a Live version on CD). I believe Michael Moorcock even played with Hawkwind. He mentions the band as "members of the Hawkwind orchestra" (my italics) in one of the Cornelius short stories where the Teddy Bear steam boat sails up the Thames and plays such loud music that the Houses of Parliament collapse!

My memory might be a bit hazy on some of these points as it's been a while since I read the stories.

Colin

Moorcock wrote/read some text bits on the Hawkwind album "Warrior on the Edge of Time".  He was definitely involved with the band.

[Atgxtg]

23 hours ago, Kloster said:

One problem is that those values (basic, experienced, professional, expert,...) vary from game to game.

Somewhat, but not all that much. Master rating has always been 90%+ or 100%+, veteran around 75% (where training drops off in most games), and professional somewhere around 50%. If you look at NPC statbooks for games like Elric! they look remarkably similar to those from RuneQuest or Strombringer. Even similar to CoC, if you ignore for differences in technology.

For the most part the dice and mathematics do not change. Someone with a 33% skill is going to fail two-thirds of the time no matter what version of BRP you use.

Now versions of BRP that allow skills to go over 100% can potentially change things but only if/when the characters get to that area. It's much more of a thing in Elric! where PCs are encouraged to start off with weapon scores over 100% then in, say RQ where "RuneLord" is more of a long term goal, and not a factor at all in early editions of Strombringer, where skill capped at 100% (plus any magical enhancements).