State of BRP

[Rhialto the Marvellous]

30 minutes ago, Fenspar said:

I, for one, would like to know more about RuneQuest Fantasy Earth. But a fantasy earth, somewhat like the generic setting of RuneQuest 3 but with rules closer to the BGB would be of great interest... if that's what "RuneQuest Fantasy Earth" means.

Same here: I most fondly recall playing RQ3 in the old Fantasy Earth (and our other homebrew settings), and am keen to see what RuneQuest Fantasy Earth is.

[seneschal]

5 hours ago, dieselpunk said:

As someone relatively new to BRP (but not RPGs), I understand the sentiment of the OP as far as having the equivalent of BGB v2.0. For me, there are some missing pieces that need filling in (there's not a lot and I've made posts about them here) as opposed to some massive rework. It does seem hard for someone to "break in" to this game when there needs to be rules clarification and the answer turns out to be "Just do it like in RQ3." I'd even be happy with a BGB errata or update supplement.

I'm not as concerned about fragmentation and don't think a GURPS approach is necessary. In fact, we can see how that played out at sjgames and I think BRP is in a healthier position not being dependent on a single company.

On the otherhand, I don't see why there couldn't be active promotion of the existing BGB with encouragement towards taking submissions for new supplements to keep the generic system a living thing. I do think that BRP is skewed towards fantasy in a hobby already awash in fantasy and would like to see more rules/supplements coverage for other genres.

Here, here!  I came to the BGB via GORE.  My first impression wasn't an inclination to fantasy or horror but science fiction.  I could see my spaceman running around with the futuristic weapons listed.  The first scenario I wrote for BRP was an Indiana Jones style pulp adventure.  I understand nuChaosium's desire to reinforce its traditional brands but backing away from the previous attempts to expand the system into new genres is a missed opportunity.  

[SDLeary]

54 minutes ago, Fenspar said:

I, for one, would like to know more about RuneQuest Fantasy Earth. I'm ambivalent about RuneQuest Glorantha, not because I don't think it's a fine game but because Glorantha is not the world I want to play, and I don't need to revert to RQ 2.5 rules when I still have the BGB. But a fantasy earth, somewhat like the generic setting of RuneQuest 3 but with rules closer to the BGB would be of great interest... if that's what "RuneQuest Fantasy Earth" means.

The way I understand it, RuneQuest Fantasy Earth is going to be the NewRQ (however you want to label it), stripped of Glorantha and tailored for the setting. Even though the current version carries the BRP label, it appears that the first in this series is going to be a new version of Mythic Iceland. So core system of RQG without the G, tailored with meanies, beasties, and magic from Saga-esque Iceland.

Now to be fair, this could have changed. There have been a few Euro-Cons and I've only seen a little of what their seminars apparently offered. The only thing that caught my interest so far was a Super tid-bit about another game.

SDLeary

[SDLeary]

26 minutes ago, seneschal said:

Here, here!  I came to the BGB via GORE.  My first impression wasn't an inclination to fantasy or horror but science fiction.  I could see my spaceman running around with the futuristic weapons listed.  The first scenario I wrote for BRP was an Indiana Jones style pulp adventure.  I understand nuChaosium's desire to reinforce its traditional brands but backing away from the previous attempts to expand the system into new genres is a missed opportunity.  

I don't really think they are backing away, as much as they are trying to re-establish their core before moving on. Keep in mind that they are a relatively small crew, and the Jeff cloning efforts seem to have come to naught.

SDLeary

[seneschal]

The real problem with cloning is whether the duplicates get paid, too, and if so, how much.  🤔

[Chaot]

1 hour ago, seneschal said:

The real problem with cloning is whether the duplicates get paid, too, and if so, how much.  🤔

My real issue is how much do I get paid for cloned kidneys? I feel like this may be secondary to our main point though...

Edited May 29, 2018 by Chaot

[Atgxtg]

3 hours ago, Chaot said:

My real issue is how much do I get paid for cloned kidneys?  

I'd be more worried about being paid in cloned money. 

 

I think Chasoium's policy is probably due to the fact that most gamers prefer to have the rules "set up" for them. As we know from when the BGB came out, it wasn't quite as accessible to new players because the rules had so many choice, options and variants to decide upon. With a setting worked out in advance, all those options can be settled before hand, making the game much easier to pick up and run with. 

Now to experienced GMs, especially those who like to run thier own settings, the toolkit approach of the BGB is very appealing, but we're the choir. They are trying to reach the "mainstream" RGPers. 

Edited May 29, 2018 by Atgxtg

[dieselpunk]

19 hours ago, Atgxtg said:

I think Chasoium's policy is probably due to the fact that most gamers prefer to have the rules "set up" for them. As we know from when the BGB came out, it wasn't quite as accessible to new players because the rules had so many choice, options and variants to decide upon. With a setting worked out in advance, all those options can be settled before hand, making the game much easier to pick up and run with. 

Now to experienced GMs, especially those who like to run thier own settings, the toolkit approach of the BGB is very appealing, but we're the choir. They are trying to reach the "mainstream" RGPers. 

Who are these "mainstream" RPGers? I've always known TTRPGs to be somewhat of a fringe thing. Is there an equivalent to the casual video gamer (i.e. mobile phone gaming) in TTRPGs? Does any of the existing Chaosium products reach this mainstream audience? If I had to guess, CoC would be the most popular but even that is niche.

More back on topic, I'll be interested to see how FFG/Genesys does as a new generic system with high production values. There seemed to be no shortage of excitement about it over on rpg.net. For that matter it seems like Savage Worlds and maybe Cypher System have done ok (maybe more the former) as generic systems. 

Edited May 29, 2018 by dieselpunk
Missing word

[Madrona]

1 hour ago, dieselpunk said:

Who are these "mainstream" RPGers? I've always known TTRPGs to be somewhat of a fringe thing. Is there an equivalent to the casual video gamer (i.e. mobile phone gaming) in TTRPGs? Does any of the existing Chaosium products reach this mainstream audience? If I had to guess, CoC would be the most popular but even that is niche.

There's definitely a mainstream RPGer. Its kind of shocking and heart-warming to hit big gaming stores. 13 year old kids looking in awe and wonderment over Star Wars mini games.  Slightly older kids playing D&D 5, One of my friends is a professional GM. As in, paid and sponsored to GM games as a hourly 6 days a week job, and while I think D&D 5e has done wonders to market RPGs to people who weren't RPGers. Heck, two years ago there was a Filipino language bi-weekly D&D game that popped up in a discount uniform store in a local city. It was marketed at Navy Wives and their kids for "Family adventures."

But I don't think those are exactly the people Chaosium's marketing to, its marketing to the people who come ~out~ of that mainstream. If I was to pretend to divine what an ideal place for say, RQG and CoC, it'd be in that row of 'other RPGs' next to a table next to the big D&D stand. The one you look over when you're realizing that you're not really that interested in buying the next D&D supplement, and you prod at those *Other* books. It needs to look distinct, different, and enticing. I know a lot of people who bought Dark Heresy with little to no knowledge of Warhammer 40k, just because the book was so damn pretty and presented itself with such much flavor. I don't know anyone who has bought GURPS, say, who wasn't already pretty invested into gaming.

[Toadmaster]

I think Chaosium's games have always been second tier games. Rules that are accessible to new gamers, but generally of interest to those drawn into the hobby by mass market games (generally D&D) who are looking for something a little different. BRP was less accessible to these players as all the options make it more complex than focused games like CoC, or  Stormbringer.

 

I think all of the generic games suffer from this, as they lack a bridge from the entry level to more advanced concepts. As experienced gamers I think many fail to recognize, that choosing which rules to apply to specific genres / settings is really not a simple thing to do without a fair bit of experience. 

[soltakss]

RQ Fantasy Earth was another thing we were not asked to mention. The previous posts broadly cover what was said, though.

[Stoatbringer]

On 5/30/2018 at 3:02 AM, Madrona said:

 It needs to look distinct, different, and enticing. I know a lot of people who bought Dark Heresy with little to no knowledge of Warhammer 40k, just because the book was so damn pretty and presented itself with such much flavor.

Have you seen the beautiful covers to the new Runequest books?

Edited June 1, 2018 by Stoatbringer

[Madrona]

2 minutes ago, Stoatbringer said:

Have you seen the beautiful covers to the new Runequest books?

Yuuuup! Been marathon-reading it since like, 30 minutes or so after launch. I think it successfully did what it needed to do. Its eye-catching and distinct. It also reminds me of Logan's Run's Renew ceremony thing.

 But it is super pretty. The interior art I think is honestly, even better. The broos are adorable as pee too. Remind me of the 'weird monsters' from the old Tales of the Jedi books from Dark Horse, which I have a huge soft spot for (I.E. I just see Odan Urr). The illustrations of gameplay concepts visually is a nice easy to reference shorthand.

Generally from a graphical standpoint, its lovely. Little iffy on the maps though. They're not the worst maps I've seen, and they look great, but they're a little hard to reference and take some time to scry information out of.

[...]

On ‎5‎/‎23‎/‎2018 at 6:52 PM, Robsbot said:

How can we grow this community and introduce others to the hobby when even after a player enjoys a session with me I can't really point them to a easy to understand, in print system they can buy and enjoy for themselves?

Personally, I think BRP is doing fine, it's a well respected name and system in RPG's. Call of Cthulhu consistently rates as the #2 system most popular after D&D. CoC is where I found BRP, back at 1e; RQ/Glorantha looked sort of cool, but then the Ducks turned me away. I never thought the Big Gold Book was that popular, and was more of a collection point, rather than an ultimate rule book. I know that Mythras/M-Space are hugely popular, and I have had a positive response to me running a game, it's only down to time for me to do so is the problem.

[smiorgan]

On 5/25/2018 at 3:22 PM, Jeff said:

Of course BRP is alive. It is the engine behind Call of Cthulhu, RuneQuest Glorantha, RuneQuest Fantasy Earth, and three other games in development. What we are not doing is trying to make a one-book fits all version of BRP,  but instead tailor the engine to the setting and genre. Cthulhu and RuneQuest deal with different things, have different types of characters, and have different versions of BRP. But both are BRP games.

Clear. That was the original Chaosium approach - since it produced such great games as RQ, CoC, Stormbringer, Ringworld, Superworld, Worlds of Wonder, Elfquest, Hawkmoon, Nephilim...I have no problem with it. 

 RQ Glorantha is the latest incarnation of BRP and is an impressive game. I look forward to playing it.

Now, you just need to ...

Do Mythic Iceland 2 asap... and convince Moorcock to let you do a new FULL COLOR version of Stormbringer! Send him the new RQ!

 

[seneschal]

17 hours ago, dragoner said:

Personally, I think BRP is doing fine, it's a well respected name and system in RPG's. Call of Cthulhu consistently rates as the #2 system most popular after D&D. CoC is where I found BRP, back at 1e; RQ/Glorantha looked sort of cool, but then the Ducks turned me away. I never thought the Big Gold Book was that popular, and was more of a collection point, rather than an ultimate rule book. I know that Mythras/M-Space are hugely popular, and I have had a positive response to me running a game, it's only down to time for me to do so is the problem.

To me, Ducks are one of the things that make RQ truly unique.  Lots of games have big, brawny heroes battling monsters with big, brawny swords and spells.  But a race of Disney-style anthropomorphic avians who kick butt and take names?  That's something different, a feature rather than a bug.

(Unrelated aside:  the art for the new RunQuest edition is gorgeous but ... the characters all seem so grim and stressed out.  Is no one in Glorantha -- other than perhaps the Broo -- having a good time?)

Edited June 2, 2018 by seneschal
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[...]

3 hours ago, seneschal said:

To me, Ducks are one of the things that make RQ truly unique.  Lots of games have big, brawny heroes battling monsters with big, brawny swords and spells.  But a race of Disney-style anthropomorphic avians who kick butt and take names?  That's something different, a feature rather than a bug.

I almost didn't want to mention them, to us they seemed more Howard than Donald though. RQ is a good system, and if I look back at how much time we spent playing and converting the ICE Middle Earth Role Playing materials to AD&D1, RQ would have been better, I like it more now. C'est.

Looking forward, I think having the setting and rules in at least the same or dedicated books is the way to go, then have a fairly rigorous schedule of supplements and adventures for release. Adventures seem to be the killer app, Masks of Nyarlathotep is constantly rated as the one of, or even the best adventure ever, and does no small work in boosting the visibility of CoC. I always see people asking for adventures, and with sci-fi, there is the need for tech, spacecraft books, as supplements to adventures. It's good to have a setting that has density and depth, yet can still be described in three paragraphs if need be. I'm sure when I go to Gencon, I'll see a ton of BRP games going, it is alive and well.

[rsanford]

On 5/28/2018 at 6:11 PM, Rhialto the Marvellous said:

Same here: I most fondly recall playing RQ3 in the old Fantasy Earth (and our other homebrew settings), and am keen to see what RuneQuest Fantasy Earth is.

Me too. Mythic Iceland without hit locations preferably.

[Madrona]

9 hours ago, seneschal said:

(Unrelated aside:  the art for the new RunQuest edition is gorgeous but ... the characters all seem so grim and stressed out.  Is no one in Glorantha -- other than perhaps the Broo -- having a good time?)

I get the feeling that Vasana is a hugely unlikable woman. So many of the pictures everyone's just lingering behind her giving her the stinkeye. Heck, even Yanioth looks upset when Vasana is offering her service to Argrath.

[Fenspar]

On 5/28/2018 at 4:45 PM, SDLeary said:

The way I understand it, RuneQuest Fantasy Earth is going to be the NewRQ (however you want to label it), stripped of Glorantha and tailored for the setting. Even though the current version carries the BRP label, it appears that the first in this series is going to be a new version of Mythic Iceland. So core system of RQG without the G, tailored with meanies, beasties, and magic from Saga-esque Iceland.

Now to be fair, this could have changed. There have been a few Euro-Cons and I've only seen a little of what their seminars apparently offered. The only thing that caught my interest so far was a Super tid-bit about another game.

SDLeary

I found some more references to Fantasy Earth on the Chaosium submissions pages, and it’s as you recall. Fairly tailored setting specific books, each with their own RQ rules adapted to the setting. Not quite the generalizable fantasy setting book I was hoping for. 

Still wondering what the three other games mentioned might be. 

Evidently Chaosium want to keep the focus on RQG right now.

[soltakss]

29 minutes ago, Fenspar said:

Evidently Chaosium want to keep the focus on RQG right now.

I am not sure about that. Jeff was very keen to say there would be a Fantasy Earth line stretching across Europe, so expect some focus on that.

[Toadmaster]

On 6/2/2018 at 3:13 AM, seneschal said:

To me, Ducks are one of the things that make RQ truly unique.  Lots of games have big, brawny heroes battling monsters with big, brawny swords and spells.  But a race of Disney-style anthropomorphic avians who kick butt and take names?  That's something different, a feature rather than a bug.

(Unrelated aside:  the art for the new RunQuest edition is gorgeous but ... the characters all seem so grim and stressed out.  Is no one in Glorantha -- other than perhaps the Broo -- having a good time?)

I agree, I like that Glorantha has many unique races, but doesn't entirely dismiss the classics like dwarves and elves (although they do have their own Gloranthan twists).

My first RQ PC was a Newtling. 

[g33k]

On 6/3/2018 at 11:54 AM, Fenspar said:

I found some more references to Fantasy Earth on the Chaosium submissions pages, and it’s as you recall. Fairly tailored setting specific books, each with their own RQ rules adapted to the setting. Not quite the generalizable fantasy setting book I was hoping for. 

I think Chaosium has found that generic books don't sell well enough to justify making them.  It's why they aren't currently planning a "BGBv2" and discontinued the MW line.

<shrug> You can't argue with the business stuff.  In the end, they gotta make a living at this, the business has to exist... or no more business, & no more products.

I was never into MW, but I confess I'd love a BGBv2 !

But I'm pretty sure they have said that their plans are for all their BRP-based settings to have a core rulebook for that setting, with some flavor of BRP customized for that setting; exactly as RQG rules are customized for Glorantha, and CoC7 rules are customized for the Cthulhu Mythos.

So I'm expecting Younger Futhark, and Seidr, in Mythic Iceland; and for it to feel Nordic more than reskinned Gloranthan runes & magic... 

On 6/3/2018 at 11:54 AM, Fenspar said:

Still wondering what the three other games mentioned might be. 

I think we all are!  

On 6/3/2018 at 11:54 AM, Fenspar said:

Evidently Chaosium want to keep the focus on RQG right now.

Well, given that RQG is brand-new, I think it deserves some time in the sun!  They need to complete ASAP with each project as they hit the peak promotional effort and customer interest, hm?   🙂

But it seems to me there is plenty of effort, when it's their turn, for CoC & other Mythos products, various board & card games, etc etc etc...  I think the other "Fantasy Earth" products are so far down the pipeline that they aren't ready for any more mention than simply the fact that they exist, that there ARE such projects.

Last time they mentioned something 'way down the pipeline, the fans seized-upon the rumors and tugged at it like zombie Terriers relentlessly worrying at the shreds of a decayed bone, long after the project had functionally died...  I know, I was one of those dogs.  😞

[Jeff]

On 6/2/2018 at 6:16 PM, rsanford said:

Me too. Mythic Iceland without hit locations preferably.

Sorry to disappoint, but Mythic Iceland will have hit locations. It will be using the RuneQuest engine but tailored to the setting - different magic, no Gloranthan runes, etc.

[g33k]

11 hours ago, Jeff said:

Sorry to disappoint, but Mythic Iceland will have hit locations. It will be using the RuneQuest engine but tailored to the setting - different magic, no Gloranthan runes, etc.

I presume that all the well-known BRP damage options -- Hit Locations, general HP's, Major/Minor wounds, maybe others I'm forgetting -- are ones that Chaosium still considers "part of" BRP, and might (hypothetically) use in some future BRP product; am I correct?