RQG Sorcery

[PhilHibbs]

Sorcery seems very time-consuming to cast!

What does the "x Points" number of a spell mean in game mechanical terms? Is this the amount of Free INT it takes? Is it the minimum intensity or MPs to get the base effect? If the latter, then the example on page 384 is wrong. Ah - I think I get it - it's the number of runes/techniques, and the example actually says it has a base MP cost of 2 because of the two runes (Fire/Sky, Summon). Presumably it does not take two Free INT, just one.

[PhilHibbs]

Ok lets see how silly you can get with Enhance INT.

So you start off with 3 spells, lets say you managed to get an INT of 18, so 15 free INT.

Inscribing a spell so it takes up no INT seems pretty easy, just 1 POW per spell, no extra Enchant spell or die rolls necessary. So spend 1 POW to free up 1 INT, giving 16.

Cast it once with 16 strength, so your INT is now 23 with 21 free INT.

Cast it again, with 13 points of duration (2 weeks), and 8 points of intensity giving you +3 INT - so 21.

Not bad, but not too silly. Takes quite a chunk of MP reserves to pull off, especially if you don't have both Fire/Sky and Dispel mastered. Not sure how much MP storage you can wrangle as a starting character.

If you don't do the double cast, you can get 12 duration (1 week) with +2 INT. So the double-cast trick doesn't really gain a huge amount.

 

[jajagappa]

23 minutes ago, PhilHibbs said:

Ah - I think I get it - it's the number of runes/techniques, and the example actually says it has a base MP cost of 2 because of the two runes (Fire/Sky, Summon). Presumably it does not take two Free INT, just one.

The base MP needed is the number of Runes/Techniques required by the spell (e.g. Combine, Water, Air = 3).  Each Rune or Technique requires INT.  With an INT of 13, you can know one Rune and one Technique.  Each point of INT above that allows either an additional Rune or additional Technique. 

Then there are the spells themselves.  Each one costs one point of Free INT.  However, you need to keep some Free INT, which is what allows you to manipulate the spell by increasing Strength, Range, or Duration.  So a bit of a balancing act to get enough spells, but keep enough Free INT to allow for more intensity.

[PhilHibbs]

Starting adventurers who are initiates get 3 Rune Points. How would this work for sorcerers who are not Lhankor Mhy? Would they get 3 points of POW which they could spend on things like inscriptions and enchantments?

[jajagappa]

14 minutes ago, PhilHibbs said:

Starting adventurers who are initiates get 3 Rune Points. How would this work for sorcerers who are not Lhankor Mhy? Would they get 3 points of POW which they could spend on things like inscriptions and enchantments?

I don't think we have enough detail on such yet, but I'd be inclined to say yes.

[PhilHibbs]

The Magic Rune in a spell means that you can substitute any Rune for that one Rune, right? So for example Castback has Magic and Stasis - if I only know Water, I can't cast it because I have to know Stasis and any other Rune.

Also, how do calendar affinities and other runic bonuses work with spells that I cast using another Rune in place of Magic? If I cast Neutralize Magic in Sea Season using the Water Rune, should I get the seasonal bonus?

Edited June 1, 2018 by PhilHibbs

[jajagappa]

26 minutes ago, PhilHibbs said:

The Magic Rune in a spell means that you can substitute any Rune for that one Rune, right? So for example Castback has Magic and Stasis - if I only know Water, I can't cast it because I have to know Stasis and any other Rune.

Correct.

26 minutes ago, PhilHibbs said:

If I cast Neutralize Magic in Sea Season using the Water Rune, should I get the seasonal bonus?

I'd say yes.

[Mugen]

10 hours ago, PhilHibbs said:

Ok lets see how silly you can get with Enhance INT.

So you start off with 3 spells, lets say you managed to get an INT of 18, so 15 free INT.

It seems to me Jeff Richards explained that only spirit magic spells were reducing your free INT in RQG. Did this change in the final rules ?

Edit : oh, I see Jajagappa answered this.

Edited June 2, 2018 by Mugen

[Mugen]

Is there a limit on the number of spells a sorcerer can keep active at once ?

Or can I stack spells increasing damage and physical, spiritual and magical protection ?

[Mugen]

11 hours ago, PhilHibbs said:

Icribing a spell so it takes up no INT seems pretty easy, just 1 POW per spell, no extra Enchant spell or die rolls necessary.

If you inscribe it, wouldn't it be interesting to increase base Strength or Duration ? As far as I understand, Inscribing a spell is RQG equivalent of RQ3 Sorcery spell matrices, except it does not require you to learn a ritual spell and roll under Enchant skill.

[PhilHibbs]

24 minutes ago, Mugen said:

If you inscribe it, wouldn't it be interesting to increase base Strength or Duration ?

Yes, but it costs POW.

[styopa]

Why does the list of sorcery spells seem have a weird bias toward ocean/water use?  

Tap SIZ but no other stat?

"Boon of Kargan Tor"...I guess I'm not quite understanding why the reference to Kargan Tor?  It's uncharacteristic of the rest of the spells - ie the hasten spells (oddly specific to boats?) don't refer to Mastakos or anything, and I don't see any special connection between Kargen Tor and sorcery?

Most ridiculously overpowered spell in the book (so far): Steal Breath....no this isn't just an asphyxiation spell (that also doesn't seem to require beating a resistance roll from the target so ...automatic slow asphyxiation, I guess?) it ALSO gives the caster 1d6 mp PER ROUND....for 5 minutes.  Ie for a 2 point sorcery spell you can get....25d6 mp back.

You can easily bump that to 2d6 per round, so 50d6 mp.  Did I mention it's NOT capped by your POW (but remaining mp at the end* in excess of your POW are lost)?  

*of course duration can be extended, too in case you need more time to burn that 50d6 mp.....

[PhilHibbs]

1 hour ago, styopa said:

Most ridiculously overpowered spell in the book (so far): Steal Breath....no this isn't just an asphyxiation spell (that also doesn't seem to require beating a resistance roll from the target so ...automatic slow asphyxiation, I guess?) it ALSO gives the caster 1d6 mp PER ROUND....for 5 minutes.  Ie for a 2 point sorcery spell you can get....25d6 mp back.

Maybe it is supposed to be per 2MP of the spell in the sense that if you want it to run for 5 rounds and give you 5D6 then you need 9 points of spell strength, and the duration is just how long the MPs last, not how long it continuously drains for.

The more I read it, the more sure I am that if you want 1D6 more magic points, you need 2 more spell strength. "Every 2 levels of strength added to the spell add another 3 cubic meters of air to be converted into 1D6 more magic points." More strength, more magic points. The first 3 cubic meters of air already got converted and is gone.

Also, you try this in Sartar, and the local sylphs and air worshippers will be very upset.

Edited June 2, 2018 by PhilHibbs

[Psullie]

2 hours ago, styopa said:

Why does the list of sorcery spells seem have a weird bias toward ocean/water use?  

Just a guess here, but perhaps as Sorcery is traditionally the remit of the Vadeli, Middle Sea Empire, etc. it was given a maritime flavour!?!

[styopa]

56 minutes ago, PhilHibbs said:

Maybe it is supposed to be per 2MP of the spell in the sense that if you want it to run for 5 rounds and give you 5D6 then you need 9 points of spell strength, and the duration is just how long the MPs last, not how long it continuously drains for.

The more I read it, the more sure I am that if you want 1D6 more magic points, you need 2 more spell strength. "Every 2 levels of strength added to the spell add another 3 cubic meters of air to be converted into 1D6 more magic points." More strength, more magic points. The first 3 cubic meters of air already got converted and is gone.

Also, you try this in Sartar, and the local sylphs and air worshippers will be very upset.

I don't think so?

Here's the relevant bits of the spell, important parts highlighted: it's temporal, it's not just an effect but has a DURATION.  5min unbuffed.  And while otherwise  I'd agree with you, the PER ROUND makes it clear that's...every round.

Steal Breath
2 Points
Ranged, Active, Temporal
This spell allows the caster to convert 3 cubic meters of air into 1D6 magic points per round. Every 2 levels of strength added to the spell add another 3 cubic meters of air to be
converted into 1D6 more magic points. 

[Tindalos]

2 hours ago, styopa said:

Why does the list of sorcery spells seem have a weird bias toward ocean/water use?  

[...] ie the hasten spells (oddly specific to boats?)

Sounds like they're the same ones as in HQ:G: Move Vessel Quickly Across Waters, and Stop Vessel in the Water?

They're specialities of the Debaldan School, one of the original Zzaburi schools of magic, and pretty prominent. So interesting to see that they're in RQ:G as well.

[jajagappa]

1 hour ago, Tindalos said:

Sounds like they're the same ones as in HQ:G: Move Vessel Quickly Across Waters, and Stop Vessel in the Water?

They're specialities of the Debaldan School, one of the original Zzaburi schools of magic, and pretty prominent. So interesting to see that they're in RQ:G as well.

I believe so.  And likely a group that could be encountered in Nochet or the Islands.

[styopa]

11 hours ago, styopa said:

Most ridiculously overpowered spell in the book (so far): 

OK I retract that.  

Peace 
3 Points
Ranged, Temporal, Nonstackable
This spell causes all persons not of Rune Master status within a 1-kilometer radius to lay down their weapons and forget all violence and war. For the duration of the spell, they prefer rather to listen to the wonders of peace and love which the spirits send ringing through their minds

 

That's ridiculous.  

Edited June 3, 2018 by styopa

[metcalph]

1 hour ago, styopa said:

That's ridiculous.  

Also it's from Cults of Prax.

[Mugen]

11 hours ago, styopa said:

I don't think so?

Here's the relevant bits of the spell, important parts highlighted: it's temporal, it's not just an effect but has a DURATION.  5min unbuffed.  And while otherwise  I'd agree with you, the PER ROUND makes it clear that's...every round.

Steal Breath
2 Points
Ranged, Active, Temporal
This spell allows the caster to convert 3 cubic meters of air into 1D6 magic points per round. Every 2 levels of strength added to the spell add another 3 cubic meters of air to be
converted into 1D6 more magic points. 

Question is : how do fluid physics work in Glorantha, and is this spell really meant as an attack spell ?

In real world, the void would be quickly filled by surrounding gas, perhaps creating violent streams, but I don't think it would be a great way to make one suffocate. Unless you put him in a closed space, of course.

On the other hand, it's a ridiculously good way to get magic points...

[Joerg]

1 hour ago, Mugen said:

Question is : how do fluid physics work in Glorantha, and is this spell really meant as an attack spell ?

On the matter of fluid physics: there remains stale air, so you don't create a vacuum. It just becomes unbreathable (like multiple times exhaled), and I guess not exchanged while under the influence of the spell.

 

1 hour ago, Mugen said:

In real world, the void would be quickly filled by surrounding gas, perhaps creating violent streams, but I don't think it would be a great way to make one suffocate. Unless you put him in a closed space, of course.

That's if you remove all the air, but as I read the magic, it removes the breathable quality of the air, not the substance itself. This spell doesn't create voids - you would need some Chaos component for that. So basically, think of this like the Gloranthan version of nitrogen and carbon dioxide.

(Note that real world oxygen levels of above 20% are useless for breathing when the carbon dioxide content of the air reaches 5% - the problem is that you cannot exhale carbon dioxide any more, so that the carbon dioxide bound to your hemoglobine doesn't make place for oxygen. Breathing through water or alkaline solutions may mitigate that problem slightly, and absorbers with calcinated caustic chalk will give you several minutes of CO2 removal. Similar problems occur when you use a snorkel with a volume greater than your normal lung capacity - if you are unable to expel the exhaled air, you'll suffocate. But a candle flame might still burn on.)

Does the spell description state whether this will extinguish flames? The quality of air required by flame doesn't necessarily have to be the same as the quality required for breath, despite our chemistry telling us they both require oxygen and exhaust carbon dioxide, but the Orlanthi concept of Breath also includes moving air. Still/stale air may still support a flame while making breathing organism's suffocate.

How does this spell interact with air/storm elementals, and how does it work in a storm/strong breeze?

 

[Mugen]

1 hour ago, Joerg said:

On the matter of fluid physics: there remains stale air, so you don't create a vacuum. It just becomes unbreathable (like multiple times exhaled), and I guess not exchanged while under the influence of the spell.

So, what Stopya quoted here is an excerpt from the spell ? If so, I stand corrected. I don't own the book, and based my comments on the only parts I knew about.

[Psullie]

10 hours ago, metcalph said:

Also it's from Cults of Prax.

And knowledge is limited to just two people, Most Respected Elder and High Priestess of the 3 Bean Circus

In RQ2 Rune Magic was severely restricted, some cults could only learn 1 or 2 point spells which helped limited some overpowering magic. I hope the future Gods supplement does something similar and make many of the more powerful magic limited,

[styopa]

14 hours ago, metcalph said:

Also it's from Cults of Prax.

One might think then that they had what, nearly 40 years to recognize it's ridiculously overpowered?  Trickster rune lords would flock around anyone stupid enough to cast this spell, because the moment they cast it, nearly everyone within 1km (that could be 10,000 people) would be completely vulnerable.  Not to mention thieves would love this...someone cast "peace" nearby?  I'm going to empty every belt pouch and strongbox I can get to in what, 15min?

Just because it's from an old version of the game, that doesn't make it sacrosanct.

[oltamy]

Page 33: "determined By the Occupation table on page 63".

There is no ocuupation table on page 63.