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On illumination and real world enlightenment

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5 hours ago, Shimozakura said:

Sorry for bumping. Ropecon event took place this weekend and I had the talk there. Everything went nicely, and I very much wanted to thank all the participants of this thread for helping me with the Gloranthan side. Unfortunately I didn't see anybody in the audience with a worker pass and a camera, so I'm sorry to say there won't be a video of the talk coming up after all. Nevertheless, I'm very grateful to all of you.

Too bad  I missed it (as a fellow Finn - but didn't attend Ropecon this year)!

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On 6/6/2018 at 3:54 AM, Akhôrahil said:

Is it canonical that God Learnerism is a form of illumination? If anything, it strikes me as the opposite of illumination. Illumination is the perception of the unity of existence, the simultaneous acceptance of opposites, a kind of holism if you like. God Learnerism, meanwhile, is one of the closest things we come to science in Glorantha. It's analytical and comes to its conclusions by means of understanding the components of stuff. It works by logic and reduction. If anything, I would expect God Learners to be less illuminated than the average man on the street.

I think, rather, that Illumination is one form of God Learnerism. Specifically, in Middle Sea Empire (which obviously needs a lot of revising for new terminology etc, but assuming most of it is still more or less correct) Malkioneranism, as described on pg 42, just reeks of Illumination, but it’s a minority God-Learner philosophy opposed by Makanism. Makanism approaches the one kind through intellectual means, Malkioneranism believes it can be contacted directly (and that is Illumination).

Both Malkioneranism and Irensavalism believe that Illumination is contact with the mind of Malkioneran, but the Irensavalists also believe Malkioneran is the corrupt demiurge, so Illumination is a terrible moral temptation that must be overcome (its possible they believe that experiencing, and overcoming, this temptation is part of the path to becoming an Ascended Master, though). The modern New Hrestoli attitude to Illumination comes is large part from Talor, who spent his life fighting Illuminates (but probably was one, via the Arkati route). 

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In general -Illumination is an experience,  ot a belief. Once you have had the experience, you are able to leverage it in various ways (some of which may require being able to revisit the experience as required, and so may not be available to all), basically the list of abilities listed for Illuminates in HQG pg 204. That list may not be complete. 

And, in as much as not all paths to Illumination teach all of those abilities, not all Illuminates are equal. Draconic Illumination generally doesn’t teach how to deal with Chaos, and Lunar Illumination does, for example. Lunar Illumination teaches how to deal with some pairs of opposing Runes (particularly Life and Death, and Truth and Illusion), but isn’t very good at dealing with some others (notably Disorder and Stasis are hard to approach via Lunar methods). Much varies not just on path to Illumination, but also how it is approached. Magicians who have been illuminated may seek out further mystic experiences to learn further powers. 

Notably, some Illuminates, and probably some entire (by their nature, minor) traditions do not know how to teach it to others, or not easily. The Imarja tradition, for example, may teach Illumination only by the dangerous method of HeroQuest to the Green Age.

Now, most direct useful magic is still recognizably animist, theist or sorcerous. But Illumination allows access to magic techniques not previously available. Use of Chaos most obviously, but also just combining magic in ways not usually possible. 

Austerities are worth discussing. I think they are a basic magic method usable by all magicians - like meditation or enchanting. Shamanic Taboos, Gifts and Geases, and sorcerous oaths may all be examples. But hey, if you are an Illuminate you can collect abilities this way, but then may not be bound by them. So it’s a magic technique that works really well for Illuminates. I think Ven Fornism is very austerity driven for this reason. 

A lot of powerful mystic abilities, and in particular the EWF powers from the dragon otherworlds, are essentially HeroQuest that only mystics can access, or succeed in. 

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