Variable has no limit?

[flynnkd]

So variable spells have no limit now?  You can have Protection 8?  SRs are the only limit for casting... have I got that right?

And cost is per point, no accumulation cost?

[PhilHibbs]

I think variable spell limits were only in RQ2, RQ3 got rid of them.

[jps]

No limit but you’ll have to find someone able (and willing) to teach you Protection 8: this could be a quest on its own.

[Flesh Man]

5 hours ago, PhilHibbs said:

I think variable spell limits were only in RQ2, RQ3 got rid of them.

In RQ3 you had to defeat a spirit to learn the spell,  the spirit had a power of 1d3 per point of spell

[styopa]

4 hours ago, waltshumate said:

In RQ3 you had to defeat a spirit to learn the spell,  the spirit had a power of 1d3 per point of spell

8 point spell them is only a 16 point spirit on average, easily defeated with moderate spirit screen...

[flynnkd]

My problem is that we have played with limits for so long that this sort of change unbalances your game mind, and takes a lot of effort to to rebalance. You can learn spells from Runelords now, and they are very likely to have high variable spells, because they are so powerful. I suppose Prot8 is countered by Bladesharp 8... my brain is hurting. 

 

The other point is that its not even mentioned in the book as a change... they need a small chapter on "What was before, but is not now - preconceived play".

[simonh]

1 hour ago, flynnkd said:

My problem is that we have played with limits for so long that this sort of change unbalances your game mind,

Only if you’ve never played RQ3. For  many of us, this is how it’s been for about 30 years.

Simon Hibbs

[flynnkd]

I have never played RQ3, never liked it, so my comment, for me and the many of us the same (a totally unsubstantiated claim), it is a problem that does not need to be dismissed because we do not conform.

[Joerg]

4 hours ago, styopa said:

8 point spell them is only a 16 point spirit on average, easily defeated with moderate spirit screen...

I don't allow spirit screen when trying to integrate spell knowledge.The supplicant might win the spirit combat, but the spirit's spell won't be able to enter the supplicant. This makes spirit screen a good tactic to avoid possession by a spirit that has got the upper hand, but it won't allow easy access to high power spells.

 

[simonh]

3 hours ago, flynnkd said:

I have never played RQ3, never liked it, so my comment, for me and the many of us the same (a totally unsubstantiated claim), it is a problem that does not need to be dismissed because we do not conform.

So you're seriously suggesting the new game should cut some of it's current content and replace it with lists of all the differences between it an every previous edition of RuneQuest? Which material would you like them to ditch? How much detail would you expect this to go into - every spell description that's different, every skill description change, weapon stats? For what it's worth, RQ3 never did anything like this.

I can see it would be useful for someone to do this as a fan project, but I wouldn't expect Chaosium to spend the valuable time of their writing and editorial staff on this as against actual new material.

Simon Hibbs

 

[Atgxtg]

4 hours ago, flynnkd said:

I have never played RQ3, never liked it, so my comment, for me and the many of us the same (a totally unsubstantiated claim), it is a problem that does not need to be dismissed because we do not conform.

It has nothing to do with conformity. It's about timing. The removal of limits happened over 30 years ago. Its like complaining that they removed the experience potions (they did, you know). If you think the rule is going to cause a problem then just impose some limits. The old 4 and 6 point limits would work just fine.

BTW, in play the lack of limits didn't change things much. Most characters rarely carried anything much higher than a 6 point spell anyway. With the higher power cost and all, it was a case of diminishing returns. 

 

Expecting a list of every change isn't practical. You'd end up with a supplement that would convert RQ2 into RQG. However, there are reviews and sites like this one to go over changes. I, for one, considered RQ3 to be better mechanically, and dislike that they threw out a lot of good stuff by reverting back to RQ2. But hey, they can do that. 

[Oracle]

7 hours ago, flynnkd said:

...

The other point is that its not even mentioned in the book as a change... they need a small chapter on "What was before, but is not now - preconceived play".

In fact something in this direction does exist:

• p.11: there is a boxed text with the title: Been To Glorantha Before? This is a (quite high level) list of changes in comparison to previous versions of RuneQuest.
• p.432: the Conversion Guide Appendix.

I give you, that this may not cover the level of detail, you would have expected, but as already mentioned in previous comments, a higher level of detail would be way to much effort in a book, that describes the current state of RuneQuest.

[PhilHibbs]

5 hours ago, simonh said:

So you're seriously suggesting the new game should cut some of it's current content and replace it with lists of all the differences between it an every previous edition of RuneQuest?

To be fair, up until last Friday, RuneQuest 2 was the only currently in-print version of RuneQuest, and technically RQ2 and RQ:G are now both in print simultaneously! 😜 A comprehensive list of differences would be nice, probably as a fan project, but I would not like to see any more space in the RQ:G rule book taken up with it. I don't know of any new role playing game edition that has gone to the lengths of comprehensively listing all the changes, to the level of detail of "this mechanic is no longer limited to X points". Often previous editions are never even mentioned.

[simonh]

S far I've seen complaints that the core rue book should contain:

Creature stats; Rules for generating Lunar characters (not just Lunars from Tarsh which are covered) and Pavis natives; Rules for generating non-human characters; Complete rules for Western sorcerers; A complete list of changes from RQ2 (and RQ3?) down to the level of individual spell limits.

At this point, the page count of things the core book 'should contain' is probably as long or longer than the actual book.

Simon Hibbs

[Atgxtg]

Having not purchased RQG yet, I curious as to what is taking up those 400+ pages in the book? RQG is larger than RQ2, Cults of Prax, Cults of Terror and Gateway Bestiary combined. 

[PhilHibbs]

Here are the page counts by section:

Introduction    8
Glorantha    10
Adventurers    61
Pregenerated Adventurers    15
Homelands    38
Game System    26
Skills    28
Combat    36
Runes    6
Passions & Reputation    10
Magic    10
Spirit Magic    16
Rune Cults    44
Rune Magic    38
Shamans    14
Spirits & the Spirit World    16
Sorcery    22
Equipment & Wealth    12
Between Adventures    17
Conversion Guide    6
 

So the biggest section is character creation ("Adventurers") which includes the extensive (slightly over 16 pages) family background tables.

Edited June 7, 2018 by PhilHibbs

[StephenMcG]

6 hours ago, PhilHibbs said:

To be fair, up until last Friday, RuneQuest 2 was the only currently in-print version of RuneQuest, and technically RQ2 and RQ:G are now both in print simultaneously! 😜 A comprehensive list of differences would be nice, probably as a fan project, but I would not like to see any more space in the RQ:G rule book taken up with it. I don't know of any new role playing game edition that has gone to the lengths of comprehensively listing all the changes, to the level of detail of "this mechanic is no longer limited to X points". Often previous editions are never even mentioned.

Steve Long did it for the switch between 5th edition and 6th edition Hero System.  It was not every detail but a broad sweep of the design decisions and changes made.

I think that there is a decent need for a designers overview and the guys are doing a lot of work in introducing the new system, this would fit right in.  I think that not limiting variable spells is a broad change worth noting (along the lines of : we decided to remove the caps on variable spells - it was trialled extensively in RQ3 and seemed to work).

There are so many versions and things going round, something rounding up the design decisions on where to break away from RQ2 as was would be an interesting read - there must have been a lot of hard decisions on how far to make it recognisable as RQ2 but enough to make it a modern take on the classic.

[7Tigers]

53 minutes ago, Atgxtg said:

Having not purchased RQG yet, I curious as to what is taking up those 400+ pages in the book? RQG is larger than RQ2, Cults of Prax, Cults of Terror and Gateway Bestiary combined. 

I would say (great) art is taking at least 25% of all pages.

[styopa]

4 hours ago, simonh said:

S far I've seen complaints that the core rue book should contain:

Creature stats; Rules for generating Lunar characters (not just Lunars from Tarsh which are covered) and Pavis natives; Rules for generating non-human characters; Complete rules for Western sorcerers; A complete list of changes from RQ2 (and RQ3?) down to the level of individual spell limits.

At this point, the page count of things the core book 'should contain' is probably as long or longer than the actual book.

Simon Hibbs

RQG rulebook version 1.1 post edit:

[Atgxtg]

1 hour ago, styopa said:

RQG rulebook version 1.1 post edit:

What no appendix?

[Joerg]

25 minutes ago, Atgxtg said:

What no appendix?

The Librarian went through L-Space and performed an appendectomy. Ook.

 

As far as I am concerned, I would be grateful for an e-reader optimized version which could be updated with subsequent additions to the rules in the same manner as a law collection like in the picture. But first let's get those dead aldryami through that mostali device and imprinted with uz sap.

[boztakang]

43 minutes ago, Atgxtg said:

What no appendix?

The appendix is included with the Errata manuscript.

[StephenMcG]

On 6/6/2018 at 11:11 AM, flynnkd said:

And cost is per point, no accumulation cost?

This has not been addressed I think.  In RQ2 you had to buy BladeSharp 1 before you could buy BladeSharp 2 etc, and the costs racked up.

the mechanical differences I have noted so far with battle magic are: the lower costs of spells; the lack of caps on variable spells; the need to roll POWx5 to cast a spell; points of magic remembered capped by CHA rather than INT; those not in memory have to be re-learned rather than having to meditate to bring them “back into memory”; and, they only last 10 rounds rather than 25.

I was going to ask about the accumulation cost as well, nothing explicit to say how variable spells work.

 

stephen

[Oracle]

2 hours ago, Joerg said:

...

As far as I am concerned, I would be grateful for an e-reader optimized version which could be updated with subsequent additions to the rules in the same manner as a law collection like in the picture. ...

In fact I would like a version updateble with subsequent additions even for a printed hardcopy. That's one of the reasons, why I liked the Harnmaster/Harnworld ring folders so much ...

[Atgxtg]

27 minutes ago, Oracle said:

In fact I would like a version updateble with subsequent additions even for a printed hardcopy. That's one of the reasons, why I liked the Harnmaster/Harnworld ring folders so much ...

Yeah, every time you needed to update and replace something you could just redo the relevant pages and replace the once in your book. That would be a great approach, especially if there was a way to work the binder into the cover. Although I expect the latter bit  might be too costly.