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RosenMcStern

Tanaka's observations

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Tanaka has posted some relevant observations on rpg.net. However, the thread there is a sell me / tell me and I do not want to clutter it with details which are relevant only to whoever has some play experience. Better go on with the discussion here.

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Oh I know, but even so, there are some leftover artifacts that arise from the powers being written for advanced combat first and basic second  :).

For example, take Damage Enhacement, it adds a point of damage per level of might, and it´s counterpower, Protection, which adds an AP point for each level of might. In Advanced combat both powers cancel each other out mathematically, since they follow the same linear progression; but in basic combat Damage Enhancement outperforms Protection since the bonus to AP is capped at 2, in fact, when you factir in that a second character can also use Element Blade and further boost damage, a simple combat with casters quickly devolve into a game a of rocket tag.

Case in point, two equally skilled warriors face fight together, let´s say that both of them have exactly the same AP (2)  weapon damage (D8), and RP 15 (which is quite a lot), now let´s say fighter A is buffed with Absorb Fire 4 and Damage Enhacement 4, while B is buffed with  Damage Enhacement 4 and Fire Blade 4.

Fighter A will be dealing on average 8,5 points of damage per round, 12 points if they net an advantage. Fighter B will be dealing 12,5 on average, 16 with an advantage. The way how AP works, since armor is so low, they both have the potential to one shot a dragon (RP 18, AP 2), hell, several dragons in fact.

In Advanced Combat those averages wouldn´t even break through the scales (unless they get really lucky).

Partially true. First of all, Fire Blade is not variable, and Absorb Fire would completely negate the Might of the Fire damage: the effect is the same in Both Advanced and Basic Combat. Should the Fireblade take effect, the rules do not specifically tackle this case, but I would say that since Fire Blade adds 1 might of fire, then it provides only 1 Might to damage in Basic Combat. Still relevant, but not a showstopper.

Damage Enhancement is more powerful than Protection. True. However, this was thought of, and intentional. Do not forget that damage in BC is not "wounds", but also tactical advantage. In AC, there are several ways to bypass armour, and the person with Damage Enh. has a higher chance of winning over the one who is only using Protection: the Protected warrior can still score a hit and not do enough damage to win, the damage enhanced one will certainly end the fight with the first use of Choose Location, Maximum Damage or Coup de Grace. This is reflected in Basic Combat by the fact that Protection is only worth 1 or 2 points.

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Example B, Hinder and Haste, both really powerful in advanced combat since extra Strike Rank means more combat actions. The extra movement is pretty much disposable in Basic combat since the range bands are so broad.

This is more relevant. Haste is very powerful in AC, and hardly effective in BC. For groups which use mostly a narrative approach, Haste is recommended as a tool for chases, not for battles. Consider that a Haste 2 automatically ends the Chase with the spell user winning.

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Example 😄 Heal would only work on a very specific case (rolling it as a defense and netting an advantage)

The rule is misinterpretable, it seems. What I intended is that you need to have Heal available to regain RP on an advantage defense, not that you must roll Heal. Like many other spells, Heal is useful in BC to justify a narrative, rather than for rolling. In BC, you are supposed to roll only for spells which have the Overcome Trait, (or for a buff if it is useful to add damage to your weapon roll). Not for Heal: the healing roll is subsumed in the roll for defense.

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And let´s not forget that the magic´s handbrake (exertion points) is not present in basic combat, at most they lose 1 RP on a miss, I could keep on going, but I´m in a hurry :),

Unlike BRP/RQ/Mythras magic points, Rd100 exertion points are meant to let you cast at least a dozen spell in combat before being forced to stop. The case when you cast 20 spells in Basic Combat, outdoing what your character would be able to do in AC, is extremely rare. Believe me, in all spellslinging battles I have run, magicians ran out of Channelling long before they could drop to zero Exertion Points.

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I mean, theire is still an incentive to take some of these powers for out of combat purposes, but my point here is that the interaction sometimes is iffy, and my players have felt it and gotten really bummed out by it.

This is legit, as I suppose players expect their magic to be effective when their characters take the time to learn it :)

However, I have a feeling that they have still to depart a little bit more from the usual BRP paradigm of HP attrition. Basic combat is based on attrition (advanced combat is not), but not attrition of wounds. Once you think in these terms, things make more sense. Provided that powers cannot be 100% equivalent between basic and advanced combat, in any case.

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More interesting commentaries by Simon:

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Things I don't particularly like about Revolution (Sorry, Paolo):

  • The over-fiddly rules on armour and weapon modification/creation - When I asked Paolo why we needed 4 pages on modifying armour, his heartfelt repsonse was "Because we can't do it in fewer pages", whereas my response would have been "Why do we need it at all?)

The problem is that Rd100 is not a setting but a toolkit. A weapon list or armour list encompassing all items used in history would be simply huge, and lead to anachronisms that some groups do not mind, while others dislike. Giving instructions about how to personalise equipment to your taste is the best way to solve the problems for those who care, whereas those who do not care can just skip those four pages. You appear to be part of the "do not care" group.

Supplements, of course, can provide a more specific equipment set which bypasses the need to design items. The "build your own" rules are there for when you do not have a supplement for your setting.

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Having both a Wealth and Credits system and using both at the same time - Better just to use Wealth as an attribute and forget that a sword costs 50 Credits, or whatever

This is a characteristic that only exists in the core rules. In your campaign, you use one system or the other, not both. Same for supplements. For instance, Merrie England uses currency (advanced currency rules, I would say :) ), while Rise of the Yokai Koku will only have values. But the core system must explain how to use both systems.

 

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Sword Porn (Swords are better than any other weapons and you can use all of these Stunts only with swords and other weapons have harldy any stunts, because Swords are great) - OK, I paraphrase very heavily and unfairly, but that's the impression I got, I would use most of the Sword Stunts with other weapons anyway

Historically, the sword was the weapon with the most special techniques developed/taught. However, please note that unlike it happens in other games, axes and maces are better in Revolution when used by a fighter who has no special stunts. This was a specific design choice to counter the fact that swords have more special techniques and more "high quality" versions in the weapon list.

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Advanced Combat is like Mythras in many ways - This makes it very fiddly with lots of options, great for tactics but when we tried the same thing, our players were paralysed by indecision

As many people said, effect-based combat is a love it or hate it thing :)

All in all, it sounds like a big "You will find some options that you find unnecessary in this book: remember that it is written with multiple tastes in mind, so ignore the parts you dislike" warning at the start of the book, and the equipment chapter (where in fact there is already one) would be a good idea.

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On 6/15/2018 at 1:09 PM, RosenMcStern said:

Tanaka has posted some relevant observations on rpg.net. However, the thread there is a sell me / tell me and I do not want to clutter it with details which are relevant only to whoever has some play experience. Better go on with the discussion here.

Partially true. First of all, Fire Blade is not variable, and Absorb Fire would completely negate the Might of the Fire damage: the effect is the same in Both Advanced and Basic Combat. Should the Fireblade take effect, the rules do not specifically tackle this case, but I would say that since Fire Blade adds 1 might of fire, then it provides only 1 Might to damage in Basic Combat. Still relevant, but not a showstopper.

Damage Enhancement is more powerful than Protection. True. However, this was thought of, and intentional. Do not forget that damage in BC is not "wounds", but also tactical advantage. In AC, there are several ways to bypass armour, and the person with Damage Enh. has a higher chance of winning over the one who is only using Protection: the Protected warrior can still score a hit and not do enough damage to win, the damage enhanced one will certainly end the fight with the first use of Choose Location, Maximum Damage or Coup de Grace. This is reflected in Basic Combat by the fact that Protection is only worth 1 or 2 points.

This is more relevant. Haste is very powerful in AC, and hardly effective in BC. For groups which use mostly a narrative approach, Haste is recommended as a tool for chases, not for battles. Consider that a Haste 2 automatically ends the Chase with the spell user winning.

The rule is misinterpretable, it seems. What I intended is that you need to have Heal available to regain RP on an advantage defense, not that you must roll Heal. Like many other spells, Heal is useful in BC to justify a narrative, rather than for rolling. In BC, you are supposed to roll only for spells which have the Overcome Trait, (or for a buff if it is useful to add damage to your weapon roll). Not for Heal: the healing roll is subsumed in the roll for defense.

Unlike BRP/RQ/Mythras magic points, Rd100 exertion points are meant to let you cast at least a dozen spell in combat before being forced to stop. The case when you cast 20 spells in Basic Combat, outdoing what your character would be able to do in AC, is extremely rare. Believe me, in all spellslinging battles I have run, magicians ran out of Channelling long before they could drop to zero Exertion Points.

This is legit, as I suppose players expect their magic to be effective when their characters take the time to learn it :)

However, I have a feeling that they have still to depart a little bit more from the usual BRP paradigm of HP attrition. Basic combat is based on attrition (advanced combat is not), but not attrition of wounds. Once you think in these terms, things make more sense. Provided that powers cannot be 100% equivalent between basic and advanced combat, in any case.

Oh DUDE, so not fair, I didn´t realize you had replied over here :), all right,, let´s see:

- Shoot I forgot Element Blade was static (really need to have the PDF in front of me when I reply), still, what worries me about the way DE works in basic combat is that you get a very different experience from Advanced to Basic because of the power, once again, in Basic one shotting a dragon is a very real posibility, and very improbable in advanced.

- For haste I use the following rule Add Might to Strike Rank in basic combat for the purpose of calculating your rank order, seems to work fine :)

- On the Heal, If there is anything I would add to RD100 is an action that allows to recover RPs in combat or in conflicts, something like 1D2 on a success 1d4 on advantage, so dealing damage is still the optimal choice, but you have something to rely on as a last ditch effort. That would make Heal a lot more interesting in basic combat :)

Ill post the rest, this has been one hell of a week grrrr damn work.

 

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You can use this as a fix for Haste. Actually, this "nerfing" was supposed to be in the hardcover edition but we forgot to make the modification.

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Haste

Might *, Range *, Target * individual(s)

This spell adds 1 point to the Movement rate of the recipient, to his Resolution in Basic Combat, and to his or her Strike Readiness in Advanced Combat. The Might of the spell must be equal to the Size Class of the target to work. Each point of Might exceeding its Size Class adds one more point to Movement, Resolution Points and Strike Readiness.

Note that it is similar to how Shimmer works. In general, you can implement this solution for all effects which you feel "overpowered".

 

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Yes, we should really make a sticky thread for all of these. I will post it in a few hours, once I can attach a copy of the two-page rule summary that "upgrades" the softcover edition to the hardcover one.

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