Morocanth

[Tigerwomble]

Can the intelligence of a Morocanth's herdman be 'released' to have normal human intelligence?

Or are they permanently animals?

[simonh]

In previous editions they could be awakened to full human-equivalent intelligence, using the same magic as for other herd beasts. It doesn't look like this magic has been provided in RQG yet, but I think that's just because the versions of the Praxian cults we have at the moment are abbreviated.

[7Tigers]

Bordelands had Alter Creature (a Waha Rune spell also available to the associated cult of Eiritha) to do that, both ways.

[David Scott]

RQG page 318 Alter Creature, Waha Rune spell.

[FinnDeviltry]

RQG PDF page 306 in Waha cult description has Alter Creature (one-use) listed for Khans and Shamans. The spell description is on page 318 of the PDF.

[olskool]

The REAL QUESTION is...  Is Chaosium still suggesting that Morokanth are Vegan?   😒 

[Joerg]

6 hours ago, olskool said:

The REAL QUESTION is...  Is Chaosium still suggesting that Morokanth are Vegan?   😒 

Vegan - never. I suppose caterpillars, snails or similar bunches of protein are a welcome dressing. Preferring vegetarian food - afraid so, but Moros do consume meat regularly as a cultic obligation, tho more magical and man-rune inclined, the moro meat, I suppose.

What I do wonder about is Morokanth cooking. The use of fire for cooking made food way more efficient, since the body doesn't have to spend that much energy on pre-digesting raw food (whether vegetable or meat). Even if the Morokanth eat predominantly plant fppd, do they steam or boil it? And do they cook (roast, smoke) the meat they give to their herds?

[7Tigers]

Yes, Morokanth are "technically" vegetarians, i.e. they don't eat their herd-men other than for religious purposes but as outlanders believe they are "man-eaters", for game purpose, it does not change anything...

 

Edited June 20, 2018 by 7Tigers

[Tigerwomble]

8 hours ago, olskool said:

The REAL QUESTION is...  Is Chaosium still suggesting that Morokanth are Vegan?   😒 

I believe they are (at least vegetarian) and only hunt for meat to feed their herd.

[21st Century Moose]

This is one area where my Glorantha is happy to vary.

My Morokanth are meat-eaters, they eat herdmen and other herd beasts, and the other tribes will quite happily eat herdmen too, because that's in the survival covenant and herdmen are not men, they're beasts.

[simonh]

I love this interpretation. Do Morokanth still eat herd man meat? Yes actually, they do. Are they biologically herbivores? Yes, which makes much more sense. Are human Praxians still going to kill and eat Herd Men? Absolutely. Is there still an illicit trade in Long Pork to the tables of jaded Esrolian and Lunar consoisseurs? You bet. But now the joke is that humans probably end up eating more Herd Man meat that the Morokanth do. I think that's hilarious.

Edited June 20, 2018 by simonh

[David Scott]

11 hours ago, olskool said:

The REAL QUESTION is...  Is Chaosium still suggesting that Morokanth are Vegan?   😒 

Greg Stafford said in conversation with me that in his Glorantha, Morokanth are vegetarian (Sandy Petersen believes they are omnivores).

Overall this changes nothing, but does give us richer background to play with so the Praxian tribes aren't so monolithic in their behaviour and culture.

Add to this that Herd Men are omniverorrus and the stage is set.

Morokanth and can only safely eat meat during magical rituals. Eiritha has Clayday every week set aside for rituals, and scattered in are also seasonal holy and high holy days of Eiritha and Waha. As a result Morokanth eat meat at least one day a week. depending on the nature of the ritual. dairy products may also be consumed. All Praxian herd beasts produce milk and a small milk herds are kept by each clan. Milk is turned into different products depending on the herd beast. Herd-men follow the same pattern as other herd-beasts in that after calves are weaned, udders shrink back to near nothing making it difficult to distinguish cows and bulls sitting in a herd.

Morokanth practice raiding and hunt just as the other great tribes. The meat is ritually prepared, cooked and fed to their herd-men. Being omnivores they don't thrive so well on the chaparral as other herd beasts, meat is needed to supplement their diet. If a herd-man is captured by another tribe they're put in the pot before all other animals, this is because the other tribes won't feed them meat and they don't thrive so well. Herd-men in other tribes often looked dishevelled and unkempt, whilst those amongst the Morokanth always look well happy and have long black well groomed hair.

Herd-men are trained to gather food for the Morokanth, they dig for tubers, crop grasses with simple stone hand knives, gather seed pods and other any seasonal plants. They are very efficient at this.

As a result of this herd-men have a much lower bride (dowery) value than other herd beasts. Much more work is spent maintaining them, however you need at least one to claim your bride from her mother or grandmother.

Within Praxian culture everybody eats herd-men, all Praxians do this. Foreigners don't know this and it's generally kept from them. Dishevelled looking herd-men in other tribes are often passed off as slaves. As a result Morokanth are often portrayed as man eaters - you wouldn't want the truth to get out would you. At Pimpers Block, the main slave market for Prax / Sartar border, Morokanth aren't permitted. This this prohibition doesn't come from the Praxians it comes from the other traders. It is supported fully by the other tribes. However when it actually comes to ransom and hostages amongst Praxians Morokanth are often the intermediaries as they are much more likely to look after human captives well and not kill them. However it's not unknown for them to change hostages or captives into beasts who are good breeding stock. Morokanth often go after outlaws of other tribes as they are fair game.

Edited June 20, 2018 by David Scott

[Jeff]

2 minutes ago, Tigerwomble said:

I believe they are (at least vegetarian) and only hunt for meat to feed their herd.

Morokanth normally gather (or have their herd-men gather for them) their preferred food - roots, leaves, grubs, etc. They do eat meat (from sacrifices to Waha and Eiritha) at least twice a week, and higher status Morokanth likely more often. 

[David Scott]

1 minute ago, Jeff said:

and higher status Morokanth likely more often

The most powerful woman in all of Prax and the Wastes is the Morokanth High Priestess of Eiritha at the Paps. Egajia Chewer of Flesh, is the worldly manifestation of the Herd Mother Eiritha, she chews Herd-man pemican as she leads daily worship of the Goddess.

[Jeff]

Just now, David Scott said:

The most powerful woman in all of Prax and the Wastes is the Morokanth High Priestess of Eiritha at the Paps. Egajia Chewer of Flesh, is the worldly manifestation of the Herd Mother Eiritha, she chews Herd-man pemican as she leads daily worship of the Goddess.

Hence her name. She's such a holy Morokanth she is always eating herd-man!

BTW, I suspect that herd-man doesn't really taste all that great to Morokanth, so they dry it and mix it with berries and other plants for taste. I mean these are giant tapirs.

But for the human Praxians, it is their pork substitute. And the most economical of herd-beasts to eat.

[Psullie]

28 minutes ago, Jeff said:

But for the human Praxians, it is their pork substitute. And the most economical of herd-beasts to eat.

Praxian Spam! 

[David Scott]

54 minutes ago, Jeff said:

BTW, I suspect that herd-man doesn't really taste all that great to Morokanth, so they dry it and mix it with berries and other plants for taste

Quote

Fruits such as cranberries and saskatoon berrieswere sometimes added. Blueberries, cherries, chokeberries, and currants were also used, but almost exclusively in ceremonial and wedding pemmican.

Pemmican is the ideal food if you are an old toothless Morokanth. It’s also great for those away from the herd on holy days:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pemmican

other tribes are more jerky or biltong although I haven’t figured out which would prefer which.

[David Scott]

1 hour ago, Jeff said:

she is always eating herd-man

As the highest agency of Eiritha, I believe she eats a range of herd beasts not just herd-men. Gifts from visiting tribes seeking blessings keep the Paps well stocked. Their best animals being gifted and sacrificed. The Paps maintains its own small herds under the ownership of the respected elders and high priestesses, these graze on the Eiritha Hills. There is even a herd of cows from the Pol-Joni and a few other exotics from afar.

To be fed herd-man from her own herd is a great honour. 

[Joerg]

1 hour ago, simonh said:

Is there still an illicit trade in Long Pork to the tables of jaded Esrolian and Lunar consoisseurs? You bet.

Hold on a second. Is there anything illicit in trading or eating Long Pork from actual Herd Men? The Lunars don't even flinch at the use of non-Herdman Long Pork by their ogre population.

The crime is only in offering Long Pork from non-Herdmen without the buyer's knowledge and consent. And for this purpose, people turned into herd beasts are considered legitimate herdmen. It is still bad taste to eat your own former sibling, but that's a different matter.

 

While on the subject of awakened herd beasts and personhood, are allied spirit in mounts the equivalent to an awakened mount? Do they have to consume meat ever so often?

 

1 hour ago, simonh said:

But now the joke is that humans probably end up eating more Herd Man meat that the Morokanth do. I think that's hilarious.

Also by other herd-men.

[David Scott]

2 minutes ago, Joerg said:

While on the subject of awakened herd beasts and personhood, are allied spirit in mounts the equivalent to an awakened mount? Do they have to consume meat ever so often?

If you mean an allied spirit in a herd-man, herd men already eat meat, so yes they carry on eating meat.

[simonh]

1 hour ago, Joerg said:

Hold on a second. Is there anything illicit in trading or eating Long Pork from actual Herd Men? The Lunars don't even flinch at the use of non-Herdman Long Pork by their ogre population.

'The Lunars' is a pretty broad brush you're waving about there. I bet you I could find a pretty large mob of Lunars who absolutely were not ok with that pretty easily.

I think that far away from Prax most people think Praxians are crazy superstitious savages that can't tell the difference between people and animals and some of them herd, kill and eat slaves. Maybe in Esrolia it's more common to have more accurate idea of what's going on, but other than dissolute intellectuals that like to think they know best, who's going to say they are absolutely sure that this here is actually herd man meat, knows what that mans and it's all ok?

Edited June 20, 2018 by simonh

[MOB]

48 minutes ago, simonh said:

'The Lunars' is a pretty broad brush you're waving about there. I bet you I could find a pretty large mob of Lunars who absolutely were not ok with that pretty easily.

I think that far away from Prax most people think Praxians are crazy superstitious savages that can't tell the difference between people and animals and some of them herd, kill and eat slaves. Maybe in Esrolia it's more common to have more accurate idea of what's going on, but other than dissolute intellectuals that like to think they know best, who's going to say they are absolutely sure that this here is actually herd man meat, knows what that mans and it's all ok?

Indeed, such is the aversion or even revulsion - that even in Pavis, in the middle of Prax - herd man meat is commonly and euphemistically referred to as "mock pork", and artfully butchered/prepared/spammified so its anatomically human origins are no longer obvious.

As Otto von Bismarck didn't say, "Laws are like Mock Pork on a stick, it is better not to see either being made." 

Edited June 20, 2018 by MOB

[David Scott]

2 hours ago, Joerg said:

The Lunars don't even flinch at the use of non-Herdman Long Pork by their ogre population.

Interesting, I must of missed this. There are lunar ogres being fed humans?

[Roko Joko]

21 minutes ago, MOB said:

"mock pork"

The *other* white meat.

[simonh]

1 hour ago, David Scott said:

Interesting, I must of missed this. There are lunar ogres being fed humans?

I wouldn't be surprised if Roan-Ur has a few as pets, but he's hardly 'The Lunars'.