If not Stormbringer, what then?

[Joerg]

1 hour ago, Atgxtg said:

You got it. As the folks at White Wolf put it: "There should have been only one!". That said the TV series was okay. But I could live with an RPG that covered both the film(s) and the series. Just as long as they weren't all aliens from the planet Zeist.

The rpg would have to pick up ideas from the series, as the original (one and only) movie had rather few immortals, and apart from Kurgan and Connery's metallurgist, hardly in any speaking role.

Both the movie and the TV series make it an urban fantasy setting with mainly immortals as the only supernatural ones, and lots of flashbacks to all manner of historical events where they met each other before. Easier than building up the characters and their connections chronologically.

[Atgxtg]

35 minutes ago, Joerg said:

The rpg would have to pick up ideas from the series, as the original (one and only) movie had rather few immortals, and apart from Kurgan and Connery's metallurgist, hardly in any speaking role.

Possibly. It wouldn't bother me though, as it would be easy to pick and choose what you wanted from the TV series. A GM could choose to have the Watchers in his campaign or not. And a campaign doesn't have to turn into "beheading of the week." 

35 minutes ago, Joerg said:

Both the movie and the TV series make it an urban fantasy setting with mainly immortals as the only supernatural ones, and lots of flashbacks to all manner of historical events where they met each other before. Easier than building up the characters and their connections chronologically.

Yes, but there is nothing wrong with, say a Mythic Britain campaign or some such and running one or more immortals. And you could use all sorts of legendary things back then, too. The immortals don't have to be the only supernatural/magical beings. And in such a campaign the immortals advantages are somewhat diminished. Once you know how to kill them they aren't much tougher than a Rune Lord. 

Don't get me wrong, I would expect a Highlander RPG book to include the series and all of the films (even II), but it should be easy for a GM to pick which version to go with (Immortality works a little differently between the film and the series), and what elements to use. 

[tobarstep]

4 hours ago, Atgxtg said:

You got it. As the folks at White Wolf put it: "There should have been only one!".

Highlander 2 was so memorably bad that to this day, any time I hear about a sequel, be it "Ghostbusters 2" or "Spiderman 2" or whatever, I mentally add "The Quickening" to the end of it. 

[SDLeary]

5 hours ago, Atgxtg said:

If course if Chaosium secured the rights to the film Highlander, I'd pre-order as fast as I can type. 

I don't think that would work out to be a very good line of games.

SDLeary

Ninja'd! But not really surprised.

 

Edited July 17, 2018 by SDLeary

[Atgxtg]

Just now, SDLeary said:

I don't think that would work out to be a very good line of games.

Line, no. But, there should be only one!

After all, once we got the immortal stuff we could easily port them into Fantasy Earth, Call of Cthulhu (it'd be to have a character that might actually survive an encounter with a Mythos Horror, and to just once be able to say "Ryleh rising up from the ocean, again?!")

 

[TrippyHippy]

10 hours ago, lawrence.whitaker said:

'Stormbringer' never really made a huge impact on the RPG market.

While this may be undoubtedly true, it could be put to the test by a well orchestrated Kickstarter campaign.

I'm critical of Kickstarter, having been burned a number of times, but this sort of thing is pretty much what it is designed to do. If some raises, say, $200,000 then maybe those fans who back it could get a spectacular book. If it only raises $200, however, the game won't fund and nobody loses out too much. 

[Atgxtg]

41 minutes ago, TrippyHippy said:

While this may be undoubtedly true, it could be put to the test by a well orchestrated Kickstarter campaign.

I'm critical of Kickstarter, having been burned a number of times, but this sort of thing is pretty much what it is designed to do. If some raises, say, $200,000 then maybe those fans who back it could get a spectacular book. If it only raises $200, however, the game won't fund and nobody loses out too much. 

I though KS was "all or nothing" That is, is the pledge isn't met people get their money back. I though they way you got burnt was when a project did get funded but for some reason wasn't able to be completed.

[ORtrail]

1 hour ago, Atgxtg said:

I though KS was "all or nothing" That is, is the pledge isn't met people get their money back. I though they way you got burnt was when a project did get funded but for some reason wasn't able to be completed.

Yeah, you don't get billed for your pledge UNTIL the Kickstarter is actually funded, so if it doesn't meet the goal, it costs you nothing.  In fact, the only one I've backed that failed to fund still left me with a rough draft PDF copy of the game for (in effect) FREE. 

That said, yes there are plenty of horror stories of people that have been waiting for 7+ years for a successfully funded Kickstarter to complete so they can get their rewards.  Far West being one of the more infamous examples I've read about.  If the Kickstarter has a PDF copy ready enough to send out to backers that is a good sign that at least most of the writing has been done and they need the funds for art, editing, hard cover versions and so on.  

Edited July 17, 2018 by ORtrail

[Joerg]

24 minutes ago, Atgxtg said:

Possibly. It wouldn't bother me though, as it would be easy to pick and choose what you wanted from the TV series. A GM could choose to have the Watchers in his campaign or not. And a campaign doesn't have to turn into "beheading of the week." 

Nothing wrong with that as long as the beheadings happen to potential proteges of the player characters.

24 minutes ago, Atgxtg said:

Yes, but there is nothing wrong with, say a Mythic Britain campaign or some such and running one or more immortals. And you could use all sorts of legendary things back then, too. The immortals don't have to be the only supernatural/magical beings. And in such a campaign the immortals advantages are somewhat diminished. Once you know how to kill them they aren't much tougher than a Rune Lord. 

This quickly can become just another addition to the Dresden Files "a bit of everything, each in various flavors" hodgepodge. Mind you, I like that series and the protagonists a lot, but that and the Iron Druid or American Gods have gone a bit over board with all the supernatural stuff they incude. Not even World of Darkness has that much variation.

They are about as hard to kill as a rune lord with the chaos feature Regeneration (or a hefty dose of dragonewt "Pre-Healing"), or a RQ2 Vivamort cultist who has been stealing souls and spells for years.

 

[Atgxtg]

53 minutes ago, ORtrail said:

That said, yes there are plenty of horror stories of people that have been waiting for 7+ years for a successfully funded Kickstarter to complete so they can get their rewards. 

I've read that a lot of people got burned by Palladium over thier latest (and last) Robotech Kickstarter. So yeah, there is risk involved.

[Atgxtg]

31 minutes ago, Joerg said:

They are about as hard to kill as a rune lord with the chaos feature Regeneration (or a hefty dose of dragonewt "Pre-Healing"), or a RQ2 Vivamort cultist who has been stealing souls and spells for years.

Maybe not even that hard. A Rune Lords gets DI, an Allied Spirit, "iron" weapon and armor, a bunch of spirit and divine spells, some POW storing crystals, and a bunch of cult member to back them up. The Rune Lord get a chance to come back even if he is beheaded!  An immortal only gets his immortality, a great CON and POW, and a few "Quickening" perks that seem to function like a few points of Battle Magic (including a very specialized "Detect Enemies") that seem to trigger automatically. Still, the Rune Lord's in trouble if he runs into someone who's been around long enough to get his combat skills up over 400%!

 

[Joerg]

3 hours ago, Atgxtg said:

Maybe not even that hard. A Rune Lords gets DI, an Allied Spirit, "iron" weapon and armor, a bunch of spirit and divine spells, some POW storing crystals, and a bunch of cult member to back them up. The Rune Lord get a chance to come back even if he is beheaded!  

As Kurgan vs. Connery showed, a partial beheading will leak stuff, but isn't necessarily permanent if the head can plug the wound again.

Thanatari vs. Highlander immortals would be fun to watch. Highlander immortals joining Thanatar... too awful to consider.

3 hours ago, Atgxtg said:

An immortal only gets his immortality, a great CON and POW, and a few "Quickening" perks that seem to function like a few points of Battle Magic (including a very specialized "Detect Enemies") that seem to trigger automatically. Still, the Rune Lord's in trouble if he runs into someone who's been around long enough to get his combat skills up over 400%!

There is more to it - an almost shamanistic awareness of the power and intent around him, and apparently an abilitiy to tap into that, although to much lesser extent than taking in a beheading.

I am not sure whether I would allow a DI to fix a decapitation in RQ. Some combat results (like "evaporated" in the old Paranoia game" shouldn't be tampered with. Besides, why doesn't the hero have a backdoor out of hell yet? That works regardless of the condition his mortal remains were left in. Maybe the DI could grant that as a single-use boon.

Those combat skills typically are both trained and inherited. You'd need a guideline how much taking in another immortal's leaking essence will raise ability scores, and which ones.

[Atgxtg]

5 hours ago, Joerg said:

As Kurgan vs. Connery showed, a partial beheading will leak stuff, but isn't necessarily permanent if the head can plug the wound again.

Ramirez's blade did not cut deeply enough.

5 hours ago, Joerg said:

Thanatari vs. Highlander immortals would be fun to watch. Highlander immortals joining Thanatar... too awful to consider.

That's a wonderfully awful idea.

5 hours ago, Joerg said:

There is more to it - an almost shamanistic awareness of the power and intent around him, and apparently an abilitiy to tap into that, although to much lesser extent than taking in a beheading.

Yes. I was just keeping in simple. Basically they are "in tune" with all living things, but only have limited control over the experience. 

5 hours ago, Joerg said:

I am not sure whether I would allow a DI to fix a decapitation in RQ.

For a Rune Lord? Why not. For an immortal it would be a different story. Their life force has moved on to another. 

5 hours ago, Joerg said:

Those combat skills typically are both trained and inherited.

You'd need a guideline how much taking in another immortal's leaking essence will raise ability scores, and which ones.

Yes. Although I would expect it to be the most dominant traits.So if the immortal you behead how a low DEX, you're DEX isn't going to go up. POW should almost always go up, unless you already outclass the other immortal by a significant margin. I'd probably go with the SIZ progression for POW gain, bur probably cut the amount in half. 

[seneschal]

If Moorcock's works were a 1970s thing, we also have Stephen R. Donaldson's Thomas Covenant series and Terry Brooks' Shanarra series from the same era.  Not necessarily a fan of either but the latter did get made into a recent TV show.

i dunno, I tied reading The Wounded Land.  So depressing it would make Elric seem cheerful.  How did Covenant remain popular for nine novels?

Edited July 20, 2018 by seneschal
Correct punctuation

[rust]

1 hour ago, seneschal said:

If Moorcock's works were a 1970s thing, we also have ...

My favourite settings from the 1970s fantasy literature would be Pern (Anne McCaffrey) and Gwynedd (Deryni series, Katherine Kurtz). A long time ago I ran a Pern campaign with the RQ rules, it worked surprisingly well.

[seneschal]

Really liked Pern as well.

[Sigtrygg]

How about CJ Cherry's Alliance universe?

[SDLeary]

12 hours ago, seneschal said:

...and Terry Brooks' Shanarra series from the same era.  Not necessarily a fan of either but the latter did get made into a recent TV show.

That praise is too high for what was produced and shown. 😉

SDLeary

[Sunwolfe]

12 hours ago, seneschal said:

...Stephen R. Donaldson's Thomas Covenant series...So depressing it would make Elric seem cheerful.  How did Covenant remain popular for nine novels?

Word! LOL!

Edited July 20, 2018 by Sunwolfe
punctuation

[Jason D]

On 7/10/2018 at 2:05 PM, Jakob said:

Me, I'd be intrigued by China MIeville's Bas-Lag at Chaosium. I'd actually consider it a good spiritual sucessor to Stormbringer in a broader sense, in that like lots of Moorcocks work, it's Kind of part of the "Mervyn Peake" tradition of English fantasy (as opposed to the Tolkien tradiiton).

 

EDIT: BTW, I really think that BRP could handle races like cactus pople or mosquito men as player characters better than most other Systems out there.

 

Mieville does like BRP/Call of Cthulhu, and has said he'd be happy to see it adapted with that rules system. A long while ago, Adamant Publishing had the rights to do a Bas-Lag RPG. I was in communication with them and was slated to do some work on adapting it for BRP as the game engine, but the Far West Kickstarter situation made them put it on ice. I gather that it's since gone to another publisher, but I'll let them be the ones to announce it. (Hint... not Chaosium!) 

[Jason D]

On 7/11/2018 at 7:46 AM, SDLeary said:

The Expanse

SDLeary

Green Ronin's Kickstarter launched yesterday. 

 

On 7/11/2018 at 4:39 PM, ORtrail said:

The Jorune: Sholari Guide and the Jorune: Player Manual.  Probably need to combine these into one large book versus two separate ones.  Later add a 'Jorune: World Book' to explore all the other areas not covered initially. 

I would love, love, love to bring Jorune into RQ/BRP-land, but I believe that the rights are pretty tangled and have been told that there's almost no possibility of a new RPG. 

 

On 7/11/2018 at 6:13 PM, Richard S. said:

Runequest: Fantasy Earth has been announced to be in the pipeline.

Early pipeline. 

 

On 7/11/2018 at 6:17 PM, Atgxtg said:

Yes, and I'd like to see it get out the door this time. I think we have to consider just how many lines they can support at one time. Three or four, maybe. Or do we just want a lot of one off stand alone games? Maybe a mix? say they support RQG and Fantasy Earth, but pretty much the rest are one-shots?

The Chaosium team grows all the time. 

 

On 7/12/2018 at 11:26 AM, RosenMcStern said:

I suppose this is one of Jason's taks as line manager: keeping things consistent, while allowing them to vary enough to adapt to different settings.

Yep. 

As for literary IPs I'd love to see brought over to RQ/BRP/Chaosium: 

Obviously, Stormbringer again. 

Ringworld, again. 

The Worm Oroboros, by E.R. Eddison  

The Night Lands, by William Hope Hodgson  

Throne of Bones, by Brian McNaughton 

 

[Atgxtg]

47 minutes ago, Jason Durall said:

Yep. 

Does that mean there is some sort of "Bible" that tells them what they can and cannot alter?

47 minutes ago, Jason Durall said:

As for literary IPs I'd love to see brought over to RQ/BRP/Chaosium: 

No hope for Amber then?

[g33k]

re: RQ/FantasyEarth...

55 minutes ago, Jason Durall said:

Early pipeline. 

I just wanted to clarify... is this planned as a single volume (presumably titled "Fantasy Earth")?  Or as a series of interlocking / mutually-playable (but each also fully standalone) individual RPGs (of which, presumably, Mythic Iceland would be the first iteration)?  Or something else/undecided/etc ... ?

All responses understood to be with all the "early pipeline" caveats -- today's intentions may be upended by next month's realities, freelancers sometimes pitch something other than originally envisioned, etc etc etc...

Many thanks!

[seneschal]

Obviously we need to think outside the box on this one.  Since role-playing itself and many of our favorite properties are 1970s things, a logical license is ... General Hospital.  Luke and Laura!  Larceny and lechery!  Streetwalker nurses!  Gangsters, assasins and Bond villains!  Betrothal and betrayal!  Dastardly deeds at the disco!

After all, if someone can turn "Dallas" into a rpg why limit ourselves to nighttime soap operas?  😁

 

Edited July 25, 2018 by seneschal

[SDLeary]

2 hours ago, Jason Durall said:

Green Ronin's Kickstarter launched yesterday. 

 

<Sigh>I knew that was coming. Still like to dream though!

But, I'm all down for a proper hard Sci-Fi treatment. Something along the lines of The Expanse or Traveller 2300/2300AD. Space Opera/Space Fantasy is nice, but somewhat overdone in my estimation. And I'm not really into the transhumanism (ala Eclipse Phase) thing  outside of minor things you might find in a Cyberpunk setting. 

SDLeary