Sprit Magic correction?

[Dragonsnail]

While reading the Spirit Magic chapter, and also the Magic chapter the Detect spells list "Ranged, Focused, Instant" (corresponding to Casting Range, Duration, Spell Type). First thing the last two keywords are switched. But then I could not find details on "Focused". I believe it should be "Active" as per p247 "Types of Spells".

So shouldn't the Detect spells should be "Ranged, Instant, Active"? I have the 90,6MB PDF rule book.

[PhilHibbs]

Possibly. However:

Quote

Lantern

This focused, passive spell...

So clearly at some point there was a concept of a "focused" spell, which is not the same as "active".

[PhilHibbs]

I wonder if it's supposed to mean that the spell can't be cast without a focus, in the way some spells can:

Quote

Page 254:

It is possible to cast any spirit magic spell without a focus, but it takes two melee rounds to do so

 

Edited July 18, 2018 by PhilHibbs

[Dragonsnail]

28 minutes ago, PhilHibbs said:

I wonder if it's supposed to mean that the spell can't be cast without a focus, in the way some spells can:

 

No, I don't think that is the case. All Spirit Magic spells require a focus as per p254.

Not sure about the keyword though, could be a remnant of something earlier as you said before. At the very least they are typed in wrong order.

Now that I am talking about them, I also noticed several spells only have two keywords. For example Binding Enchantment has "Ritual (Enchantment), Passive" and Sleep has "Ranged, Temporal". I would much rather have them typed with a "N/A, Ritual (Enchantment), Passive" if a keyword isn't applicable. When I expect three keywords but get two, I have to use logic to understand which ones I got. It is of course easy in most cases.

[PhilHibbs]

12 minutes ago, Dragonsnail said:

No, I don't think that is the case. All Spirit Magic spells require a focus as per p254.

Except when they don't, as per the quote, which is also stated on p255.

[Dragonsnail]

23 minutes ago, PhilHibbs said:

Except when they don't, as per the quote, which is also stated on p255.

Correct.

But I think"Requires focus" would be clearer in that case. And it also would create fairly unnecessary exceptions to the otherwise encompassing Focus rules. No, I think there is something else than that.

Examining further, Detect Magic has the description "objects glow visibly to everyone within sight". I still think it should be "Active" and perhaps also have "Temporal" instead of "Instant". Which sets a time limit to the Detect spells, but you also has to concentrate on it to keep it "Active". If detect magic is Instant and not Active, how long does the effect last?

Edited July 18, 2018 by Dragonsnail

[PhilHibbs]

2 minutes ago, Dragonsnail said:

Examining further, Detect Magic has the description "objects glow visibly to everyone within sight". I still think it should be "Active" and perhaps also have "Temporal" instead of "Instant". Which sets a time limit to the Detect spells, but you also has to concentrate on it to keep it "Active". If detect magic is Instant and not Active, how long does the effect last?

I agree, "Instant" makes no sense at all. Maybe duration "Special", with a note that it lasts for 1 melee round, caster's POW in seconds, or some such.

[jajagappa]

3 hours ago, PhilHibbs said:

"Instant" makes no sense at all.

Detect spells have always been instant.  The objects detected light up magically, you see them, and the glow fades off.

6 hours ago, Dragonsnail said:

could not find details on "Focused"

A carryover from RQ2.  In that edition p.36 "Spells affecting the character’s body do not require a focus." while "spells affecting other people and objects do require a focus for quick casting."

In RQG, all spells require a focus to be immediately cast.

[Dragonsnail]

17 hours ago, jajagappa said:

Detect spells have always been instant.  The objects detected light up magically, you see them, and the glow fades off.

So how long does the detected objects glow ? Fifteen minutes? One melee round? Five melee rounds? It doesn't say as far as I can see. If it is instant as the spell, then it would be just a flash on/off and you would not be able to see any glow and not anything except for the direction you looked.

 

17 hours ago, jajagappa said:

A carryover from RQ2.  In that edition p.36 "Spells affecting the character’s body do not require a focus." while "spells affecting other people and objects do require a focus for quick casting."

I really wish there was no "carry overs", I don't like having to reference RQ2 to be able to guess the meaning RQG rules. Like when the term "Focused" is not explained in the RQG book. Also as I said earlier with the new all encompassing Focus rules I think they should just cut it out if it is as you guess. Detect spells would be "Ranged, Instant, N/A".

[jps]

On 7/18/2018 at 6:13 PM, Dragonsnail said:

While reading the Spirit Magic chapter, and also the Magic chapter the Detect spells list "Ranged, Focused, Instant" (corresponding to Casting Range, Duration, Spell Type). First thing the last two keywords are switched. But then I could not find details on "Focused". I believe it should be "Active" as per p247 "Types of Spells".

So shouldn't the Detect spells should be "Ranged, Instant, Active"? I have the 90,6MB PDF rule book.

Nice catch, as PhilHibbs said maybe it was a former concept. It would be nice to have an official answer.

[jajagappa]

6 hours ago, Dragonsnail said:

So how long does the detected objects glow ? Fifteen minutes? One melee round? Five melee rounds? It doesn't say as far as I can see. If it is instant as the spell, then it would be just a flash on/off and you would not be able to see any glow and not anything except for the direction you looked.

I haven't worried about the time in-game.  When one of the characters in my game recently cast Detect Enemies, I told them who/where enemies within the range were detected.  Did they have to spend a few seconds turning their head to see all?  Probably, but irrelevant to game flow.  If you need a time for an instant spell, decide what you think is reasonable.  Probably be one melee round for me.

[Furry Fella]

On 7/19/2018 at 5:59 AM, Dragonsnail said:

No, I don't think that is the case. All Spirit Magic spells require a focus as per p254.

In RQ2 many spells did not require a focus when cast on oneself. Clearly the issue is one of not correctly editing a cut and past from RQ2.

Frankly I'm debating largely retaining RQ2 spirit / battle magic it was generally better written - guess that's the case with a second edition updated by those who where playing it week in week out.

There are some grand ideas in RQG but much muddiness to. In places the expanded text has not produced clarity only complexity and the well versed existing balancing / matching of quality of roll already being played is much simpler and more elegant with vastly less words.

 

5 hours ago, jajagappa said:

So how long does the detected objects glow ?

Remember All Spirit and Rune Magic has a visual component - use this in play. Note that for many detect spells the descriptions were clear that only the caster say anything. There I just ruled that it was sufficient a flicker to give the caster an awareness of where, who. The thin to recall is that in a large public place there is likely to be a muted light show much of the time. Now getting players to think about this glow when doing covert things😋