What counts as "defensive magic"?

[PhilHibbs]

Bless Champion allows an Ernalda worshipper to cast defensive magic on the recipient, making it last a full day. What is "defensive" magic?

The only spell that is specifically described as "defensive" is Countermagic,  but I think most of them are probably obvious. Lets  take a look!

Spirit Magic spells

Definite:

• Countermagic
• Protection
• Shimmer
• Spirit Screen

Possible:

• Parry (affects a shield, not a person)

Probably not:

• Vigor

Divine Magic spells

Definite:

• Absorption
• Fireshield
• Inviolable
• Reflection
• Shield
• Spirit Block

Possible:

• Breathe Air/Water
• Dark Walk
• Earth Shield
• Fearless
• Face Chaos

Probably not:

• Invisibility

Some of these might be tricky for an Ernaldan to get hold of, but there's always Spell Trading, Mindlink (if that's still a thing), and Truestone.

Have I missed any?

[Pentallion]

Heal.  Not for the Ernaldan spell, but for when under demoralize effects.

Edited July 29, 2018 by Pentallion

[soltakss]

We used to play that Defensive spells were those that were not cast on someone else and which did not increase your attack chance with weapons.

So, things like Strength or Coordination are not defensive, as they increase your attack chance, albeit as a side-effect.

Demoralise, when cast on yourself, perhaps to counteract Fanaticism, is defensive, but not when cast on someone else. To make things easier, we just said it is an offensive spell.

In my experience, as soon as you have a list of spells that applies, someone will publish new spells that are not in the list and you have to start over again. If you have a general rule, then you can apply that rule to new spells.

There are some grey areas, of course. Sunbright in RQ2 is a defensive spell, but demoralises some creatures of darkness, so it that an offensive effect?

[PhilHibbs]

30 minutes ago, soltakss said:

We used to play that Defensive spells were those that were not cast on someone else and which did not increase your attack chance with weapons.

So, things like Strength or Coordination are not defensive, as they increase your attack chance, albeit as a side-effect.

So in RQ4 would you count Charisma and Glamour as non-defensive as they increase Spirit Combat skill and damage?

30 minutes ago, soltakss said:

Demoralise, when cast on yourself, perhaps to counteract Fanaticism, is defensive, but not when cast on someone else. To make things easier, we just said it is an offensive spell.

Not much use for Bless Champion though.

30 minutes ago, soltakss said:

There are some grey areas, of course. Sunbright in RQ2 is a defensive spell, but demoralises some creatures of darkness, so it that an offensive effect?

Not cast on a person, though.

[soltakss]

1 hour ago, PhilHibbs said:

So in RQ4 would you count Charisma and Glamour as non-defensive as they increase Spirit Combat skill and damage?

Probably. It's a bit of a grey area, though. If the intent is to increase an attack chance, then it is offensive.

Not cast on a person, though.

Can be. If I cast it on myself, I used to get a Shimmer effect due to the dazzling light.

Is someone under the effect of a Demoralise spell forbidden from casting Offensive Magic? Similarly, is someone under a Fanaticism spell forbidden from casting defensive magic? I'm fedeling far too lazy to look them up, but it strikes me as spells belong to Offensive or Defensive camps for the purposes of all these spells.

 

 

[Joerg]

The spell only affects magic cast by the Ernalda worshipper. Short of  Spell Trading or multiple cult membership, that limits her choice of rune spells to those granted to Ernalda to those she gets from her own cult and associated cults.

I would only use the spirit spells from the "definite" list, Shield, Spirit Block. Defensive is what reduces the chance to be hit by enemy magic or attacks directly through the magic.

Parry and Great Shield affect defensive abilities of the champion, but not directly his defense. While this spell is part of the Arming of ... ceremony, I don't think that any weapon bonus would be affected, but might be convinced.

Absorption might be defensive in nature, and looks like too good to be true in combination with Bless Champion, pumping the caster with additional magic points. I am curious about the definition of "Enemy magic" in this context, btw. Does Absorption let healing magic through? And what happens when hit by a sufficiently high dispel or dismiss magic spell?

Inviolate reads like a special form of Dismiss Magic. While the spell is temporal, it is cast on the caster herself and has an area effect of 3m radius around the caster, for the duration. It isn't entirely clear to me whether the Inviolate dispels such magic or just cancels it while the caster is within reach, similar to Neutralize Magic. If boosted with enough MP, the caster will tear down all Countermagic in her neighborhood unless stacked with enough Shield (or only if the person has cast such a spell on themselves?). This is not a defensive spell IMO.

A case might be made for Reflection, which would be available to an Ernaldan who also follows the Seven Mothers, but the spell doesn't really block incoming magic, it only returns magic that failed to overcome the target's POW. Not a protective spell IMO as it doesn't prevent the hostile caster from attempting to overcome the champion's POW.

Fireshield is defensive, but not really in the normal array of Ernalda cultists.

Warding or Create Market might be defensive in nature, but aren't cast upon the Champion, so don't count.