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Garry

what is the mythic basis for addiction?

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In the Glorantha bestiary we get mechanics for addiction with the description for Hazia. 

Does anyone have any ideas on what the mythic basis for addiction might be ?

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18 minutes ago, Steve said:

Possession?

So addiction can be cured easily by a shaman? I don't see any evidence for this happening.

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52 minutes ago, PhilHibbs said:

So addiction can be cured easily by a shaman? I don't see any evidence for this happening.

Not wanting to diminish the struggle of kicking additive habits, but the first step is wanting to be cured. So while a shaman might be able to purge the spirit, getting the individual in to the sweat lodge would be a battle in itself. 

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Sure, the spirit would be giving the victim a passion of "Addicted (Hazia)" that they would have to overcome somehow. And the shaman probably has more important things to be doing.

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Why would the shaman want to reduce your need and ability to gain a closeness to the spirits?

I would suggest Addiction Spirits hang around shamanic rituals as a matter of course.

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7 hours ago, PhilHibbs said:

So addiction can be cured easily by a shaman? I don't see any evidence for this happening.

It needn't be any kind of regular form of possession. I was giving an extremely high-level suggestion for a possible basis for addiction. As @Psullie suggests, there could easily be additional complications for an easy cure by  a shaman.

Perhaps it could be done, but there's a big danger to the addicted if the "hazia spirit" possessing them is abruptly removed, making it not such a good idea?

Edited by Steve

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16 hours ago, Garry said:

Does anyone have any ideas on what the mythic basis for addiction might be ?

Eurmal (or Ratslaff before him).  The never-ending desire for food, drink, hallucinogenic substances, etc that can never be satisfied or satiated.

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Looking at Raw Greed as a spirit of reprisal, addiction may be a curse contracted when overstepping things man wasn't meant to do. In case of forbidden substances, the curse could be an aldryami or mostali one.

Eurmal has broken countless taboos, and has attracted and even willingly embraced curses that affected the entire community.

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With Hazia specifically I'd say that being "addicted" to it is actually just another way for mortal being to show it's desire to return to the God Time, as Hazia can be used to ease the communication with the gods.

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21 hours ago, Garry said:

In the Glorantha bestiary we get mechanics for addiction with the description for Hazia. 

Does anyone have any ideas on what the mythic basis for addiction might be ?

In real world animism and shamanism, addiction is caused by a spirit “intrusion”. A spirit becomes lodged in your body. It’s manifestation in the world is the desire to consume something that feeds it. It’s not possession, but a displacement/loss of one or more your own soul parts with the spirit occupying the missing part. It’s possible that more soul parts can be lost and the spirit to grow. The intrusion can be removed, but if the soul part isn’t returned, the empty space still exists and another intrusion can get back in, or the addiction returns. Most intrusions are illnesses, some are addictions.

Based on that, in RQG it’s likely treated as a form of passion spirit. In HQG it’s a flaw.

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In the real world the reason booze is called spirits is because it poisons your body, making it unfit to host your soul, which is expelled allowing demonic spirits to inhabit the body.  These spirits lust for plesures of the flesh they've been denied and thus your inhibitions are gone and the spirits surround themselves with others of their kind thus codependency and attempts to get others to join the lifestyle and become addicted.  This gives the demons an easy supply of host bodies and makes it more difficult for one to escape.

Thats real world shamanic belief in addiction.  Easily converted to RQ.

To explain in more depth, the spirits look for someone vulnerable and weak.  Child trauma victims, etc.  It is the human who drives their own soul out in their pain and weakness.  Even if the spirit is later excorcised many others flock to the victims soul whispering to them.  Urging them to be weak.

So simply driving off one spirit is generally not enough.   The victim has to power struggle to resist other demons.  But time helps.

Edited by Pentallion
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45 minutes ago, Pentallion said:

Thats real world shamanic belief in addiction.

I’m always interested in real world examples of animism and shamanism. May I ask where this particular example comes from?

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These beliefs are pretty universal.  From modern day spiritualists to Roman times catholics to buddhist monks.  Hence the term spirits to describe liquor and fighting ones demons to describe addiction.

There are many people today who are mocked and derided for claiming to be able to see spirits.  Con men and hucksters give it a bad name.  But these people have varying degrees of ability.  I, for instance, since the age of five have been able to see souls leave their bodies upon death.  This lasts but briefly as they leave and dont come back.  I dont have to see the body to see the soul leave and on most occasions it is seeing the soul that alerts me to the death in the first place. 

Mine is an extremely limited ability.  I knew a woman who could see the demons I spoke of that attack addicts.  She saw other things too.I've read up on  others like me and those with greater abilities all agree that addiction is as I described it.

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Passion Spirits and a form of Greed both work as possible rules mechanics of why someone becomes addicted.

I don't think there should be a single way and that multiple ways are far more interesting.

Addiction could be the result of a Curse of some kind. It could also just be a property of the thing consumed, perhaps a POT vs CON roll on the Resistance Table to gain a Passion for the substance.

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On 8/2/2018 at 10:16 AM, soltakss said:

Passion Spirits and a form of Greed both work as possible rules mechanics of why someone becomes addicted.

I don't think there should be a single way and that multiple ways are far more interesting.

Addiction could be the result of a Curse of some kind. It could also just be a property of the thing consumed, perhaps a POT vs CON roll on the Resistance Table to gain a Passion for the substance.

This.  I was about to write essentially this very post (but probably not as well).  So tyvm Soltakss!  :)

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I think that every concept/thing/object/entity in Glorantha can be usefully posited to have a spirit; the spirit of Hazia is a Plant-Spirit/Otherworld-Euphoria type spirit. Though if this is, for example, how living things gain nourishment (i.e., trolls can eat rock spirits but most other creatures cannot - except plant and worm spirits/entities...) it might explain a lot.

 

Thus addiction might be a side-effect of particularly potent spirit ingestion.

 

Edited by jeffjerwin
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Eating a plant might bring you close to the Green Age and give you some of the euphoric feelings that might be found there. This may well prove addictive over time.

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In HQ:G terms, Hazia may be a charm with the ability of Euphoria or Visions, but the Taboo of "Keep taking Hazia."

Breaking the taboo angers the spirit, causing it to attack, the effects being much like withdrawal symptoms.

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On 8/4/2018 at 3:48 AM, jeffjerwin said:

Though if this is, for example, how living things gain nourishment (i.e., trolls can eat rock spirits but most other creatures cannot - except plant and worm spirits/entities...) it might explain a lot.

This actually how the herds in the Wastes survive, they are eating spirit plants still present on the land from Genert's Garden, this is part of the Covenant "mechanism".

Edited by David Scott
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There's also the Chaotic option in terms of addiction.

I'd imagine there are quite a lot of drugs in Glorantha that are Chaotic in their own nature, as well as Chaotic cults that use them as initiation methods. Krarsht comes to mind as a god with followers that would operate like this, especially with the addiction-hunger association. In this case, the mythic basis would be you gaining a "hunger" that is not of the natural kind, similar to vampires.

Imagine a drug that causes you to mentally slip into the God World and relive myths over and over but every time they're relived they become slightly more wrong and aligned towards Chaos. The first time, you are Orlanth Adventurous, slaying chaos beasts. The tenth, you are Orlanth Adventurous, slaying chaos beasts and covering himself in their offal. The hundredth, you are Orlanth Chaosmonster, slaying his own kin.

It really depends on the drug, though.

Edited by Anzugud

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OK there is an extreme lack of understanding on the nature addictions , the triggers and cycles of addiction being displayed with the thread.

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35 minutes ago, Jon Hunter said:

OK there is an extreme lack of understanding on the nature addictions , the triggers and cycles of addiction being displayed with the thread.

Or just a willingness to leave real world brain chemistry and the psychology created by that out of this thread.

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42 minutes ago, Jon Hunter said:

OK there is an extreme lack of understanding on the nature addictions , the triggers and cycles of addiction being displayed with the thread.

From a shamanic viewpoint, I don't think so. Ive worked with people suffering from various addictions and have known more than a few friends with deep problems associated with addiction. In a fantasy game it's sometimes good to reduce real world effects into generalisations rather than in this case focus on the misery and doom real life issues can bring. There's plenty of that out there in the media.

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