Rule question - Fighting Back & Firearms?

[Merudo]

Can a character Fight Back against a Firearm at close range?

Is it true that according to the manual only a disarming manoeuvre is allowed?

[10baseT]

If in hand to hand combat or melee and an attacker was shooting a firearm, i would allow the opponent to use Fight Back. To me, the rules dont fit in this case so i would adjust accordingly. Remember, the rules are just a guideline. If you're unsure what to do because a rule seems to run contrary to common sense, run it by the players and see if you all concur what you are doing/changing makes sense, if so, then do it.

[EricW]

A rifle makes a good jabbing weapon, even with no bayonet attached - it’s heavy, strong and narrow. If someone gave you a hard jab in the face with a rifle there is a good chance you would be disabled or knocked unconscious, or even killed if struck in the throat. Once your opponent is on the ground you could shoot.

This would be quite a natural way to use a rifle, even sneaking about you would point the rifle straight up or down most of the time - holding it horizontal all the time is an invitation for someone hiding round the corner to grapple it out of your hands. 

Using a rifle as a jabbing weapon is not very good for the rifle - maybe a small increased risk of a misfire or worse.

[Son-of-the-Furies]

On 8/11/2018 at 6:48 AM, Merudo said:

Can a character Fight Back against a Firearm at close range?

From my understanding of the rules, the short answer is no.

Fighting back is permitted in melee combat as a result of the opponent moving close enough to the target to strike them, allowing the target an opportunity to strike back (fight back). When the opponent is using a fire arm to shoot,  they would not be moving in, so that opportunity does not present itself to the target.

If on the other hand the opponent was using a firearm as a melee weapon (e.g. pistol whipping, bayonet strike etc) the answer would be yes because this situation counts as melee combat, not ranged combat.

[Merudo]

On 8/11/2018 at 8:11 AM, klecser said:

Relevant rules are on page 104 and 113 Keeper's Handbook.  At 1/5 Dex in feet you can attempt a fighting maneuver on your turn to attempt to disarm.

Note that Fighting Maneuver and Fight Back are different.  Fight Back is only an option when the attacker is using a melee skill. Fighting maneuvers only happen on your turn.  Against Firearms, Diving for Cover is your only "reaction" option on the attacker's turn.

Getting shot at can suck in CoC. 

Some more discussion, perhaps not directly at your specific question, but worth reading for this general area:

https://www.yog-sothoth.com/forums/topic/30382-fighting-back-with-firearms/

What about page 108 of the Keeper's Handbook?
 

Quote

A character may not choose the option of fighting back against a ranged (missile) or thrown weapon attack unless he or she is already within close physical proximity to the attacker (within a fifth of their DEX in feet).

Doesn't this imply you can fight back against firearms if the shooter is within 1/5 of your DEX in feet?

[Son-of-the-Furies]

4 hours ago, Merudo said:

Doesn't this imply you can fight back against firearms if the shooter is within 1/5 of your DEX in feet?

It looks like you are crossing your lines there... The quote you provided relates to "a ranged (missiles) or thrown weapon attack" but then your question relates to "firearms". All the above comments were made in regards to firearms, not crossbow bolts, throwing knives or beer bottles... Note in the rulebook also, just above where you sourced your quote, that these kinds of (non-firearm) missle attacks CAN also be dodged, unlike firearm shots.

[Merudo]

To add to the confusion, the Keeper Screen shows the current text under the "Firearms" section:

"Target may Dive for Cover (Dodge) but cannot Fight Back unless they are within 1/5 DEX in feet."

So, it does seem it is possible to Fight Back against Firearms - if the attacker is within 1/5 DEX in feet.

Edited November 5, 2019 by Merudo