Linked Spell Shenanigans

[HreshtIronBorne]

I was wondering what kind of weird and whacky stuff players or GMs have come up with using the Link Spell Enchantment Condition. It specifically says it can be used to make  interesting effects. Considering how the new rules encourage generational gameplay and Rune Point caps meaning supporting retired PCs or family can continue to contribute to the success of the clan and the adventureres, I am thinking we will be seeing a lot of interesting stuff. 

I have already looked through the Alternate Plunder thread but, I am not sure how much of that is within the realm of creation by a clan in Dragon Pass. 

 

Link Spell Conditions: This enchantment links together specified spells to create unusual effects. Expending 1 point of current POW allows the enchanter to tie together any or all spells enchanted 
in the device. This essentially creates one very complex spell. To cast any one of the spells that are linked together requires casting the others as well. If 
the enchanter later wishes to link more spells, they must expend another permanent point of POW.

[David Scott]

The most obvious one to me is multiple disruption spells linked together with an mp matrix, however this kind of thing will cost a lot of POW to build. The most anyone has spent on an enchantment in my RQG game is. 3 in one go, for  amp storage enchantment. For overkill, staff of sunspears. However ,all of this is good stuff for defense of a temple or other sacred space. 

[HreshtIronBorne]

I was thinking of some kind of disruption shotgun sort of thing as well. 2 or 3 linked disruption matrices with a healthy MP storage matrix to power it all. The rules in RQG state that POW for an enchantment can come from sources other than the enchanter, so even an adventuring group could create a disruption 3 matrix with 3d10 MP storage in a year or so if they go up in POW regularly. 

[OrlanthRex]

Looking through the book, which chapter does it mention “Rune Point caps”? For CHA it says it limits how much Rune magic can potentially cast. 

[HreshtIronBorne]

Really? I thought it was referring to total rune points you could acquire. Wow.

[HreshtIronBorne]

The maximum number of Rune points an adventurer can have with a single cult is equal to their CHA. P. 313 rqg rulebook

[Crel]

Fireblade in a sword linked to a 4+ MP Matrix and with a spoken word trigger condition ("Flare on!" or whatever) is pretty classic to my mind.

[Richard S.]

8 minutes ago, Crel said:

Fireblade in a sword linked to a 4+ MP Matrix and with a spoken word trigger condition ("Flare on!" or whatever) is pretty classic to my mind.

I'll do you one better: ignite+flight matrix triggered with "FLAME ON!"

[HreshtIronBorne]

We had a sword and shield that when slammed together in a ritual challenge would cast Fireblade on the sword and Protection 4 on the shield wielder, it also had enough no in crystals do do that 2 or 3 times a day. 

Edited August 24, 2018 by HreshtIronBorne
Misspelling

[HreshtIronBorne]

Further question that I just thought up with a friend, not sure if it should be a seperate post or anything. 

How does Link Spell interact with the Rune Magic Multispell and the Shaman ability Spell Barrage? Pg 335 and Pg 362 respectively. 

What happens if I try and cast a spell through a linked Strength + Coordination + Mobility matrix with 10d10 MP in matrices connected to it while I am under the effects of a Multispell 3 or if I hand it to a shaman? A single Orlanthi adventuring ring could come up with the points in a few years, or a community could fund it to arm a champion. 

[Crel]

30 minutes ago, HreshtIronBorne said:

How does Link Spell interact with the Rune Magic Multispell and the Shaman ability Spell Barrage?

I would personally rule that Multispell and Spell Barrage only apply to spells being cast from the magician himself/herself, because it seems the least gimmicky to me. I think the part that feels weird for me is that the Linked item has its own source of MPs--if all of the spell's MP came from the magician's personal points, I'd probably allow it (because that's blowing a ton of MP). So, principle needs a bit of work, but I'd say they don't interact. Strict RAW doesn't seem to imply a particular answer, so would probably allow it.

Speaking of gimmicks, another good one I've seen/heard of is a ring with a small MP Matrix, a Multimissile Matrix, and the trigger condition to activate whenever it touches an arrow. Bronze Age machine gun!

[Joerg]

I don't see the necessity to limit the number of spells that can be activated in a strike rank for spell matrices. Each such spell matrix acts as its own magical entity. Of course, if I want three disrupts to go off simultaneously, I would need three disrupt matrices. These could draw on a joint pool of MP, and the trigger condition could also make them drain that pool for boosting the spell for penetration against Shield or Countermagic (or similar barrier magics). Adding Multispell would bundle those three Disruptions into a single location. That would be a way to overcome the limitations of Warding but requires rune point "refill" in worship ceremonies. (And I don't think that such worship refills could be included in a linked spell construction unless at a place of worship, and possibly only with a bound cult spirit in that linked set of enchantments that also qualifies as initiate tied to the linked complex.)

You could produce a cascade of spells with the conditions that spell B gets triggered when spell A is cast from another condition. An argument could be made whether there is a delay between the activation of the trigger and the release of the spell commensurate to the magic points poured into that spell, whether for spell strength or spell boosting.

 

A quick search didn't yield the rules for replenishing rune points in matrices. Does a character transfer/use up a rune point when activating one in the matrix, or does the matrix need to be taken through a worship (deity) service by the person refilling it?

 

[Crel]

6 hours ago, David Scott said:

However ,all of this is good stuff for defense of a temple or other sacred space. 

This makes me imagine enormous enchantments cast to consecrate a new clan's temple. Organized by the High Priest, all the clan's priests & initiates of the god sac 1 POW each (say, even just 20 total POW) to divvy up into a 5d10 or 10d10 MP Matrix (User Condition so only priests can use), some linked spells on Area Condition linked to the MP Matrix to Disrupt 5d3 anyone who enters and isn't either an initiate or a clan member, and then maybe a Binding Enchantment or two for cult spirits, healing spirits etc. and a Control (Spirit) matrix so the priests don't need to keep it learned. I imagine this sort of blend would work particularly well for cults like Ernalda or Chalana Arroy (though not the Disrupt), giving a big pool of MP to use in healing the community of wounds and disease.

A spell matrix with Detect Enemies, Undead, Trap could work as a general "3MP Is it gonna hurt me?" sweep. Detect Bronze is really good in that regard too.

Silence + Darkwall makes your group sneaky.

You could probably do something fun combining the Absorption Rune spell and the Summon (entity) spirit magic spell, to summon really crazy big creatures to go wild. Might not even need enchantments, just seems like an interesting gimmick. Use absorption, have allies cast spells at you to boost your MP, dump all of it into summoning a huge Salamander (get a smaller one to start the fire to get space) or Gnome or wraith or whatever, then run, run, run away! leaving it as your foes' problem, hopefully.

Beastmaster and Ironhoof makes a horse or Praxian beast extra deadly, and more tactically useful. Maybe some Protection too. Blend it together, turn that Bison into a Bronze Age tank?

Again, less a cool blend and more just a straight "Oh, huh," but if you can talk a whole bunch of people into helping out, you could hypothetically make a crazy-strong Create Fissure matrix to use in shattering an enemy city (this is in the "I could see Argrath doing this to take on the Lunars" category). Get 20 POW into that, makes a fissure 100m long and deep, and 20m wide. Depends on if the Rune spell "Matrix Creation" has the same 1 hour/POW time to cast as the spirit magic version. I don't think it does? Also seems to imply that the enchanter & pals could sac the POW over the course of weeks or seasons. If all at once, would be hard to do more than 20 hours of a ritual. But... I can see a large, organized group preparing a nasty 50POW Create Fissure matrix in order to swallow chunks of a city. Like if the White Bull Society had a priestess of Babeester Gor who could cast it, and all of them sacced one or two POW each. Could combine with Shake Earth + a big MP matrix to add to the catastrophe.

Remove (Head) and Ironhead linked matrix sounds like a great Trickster enchant. "Hey, catch!"

[PhilHibbs]

So does including an "Attack Condition" (p250) remove the need for a POWx5 spell casting roll?

10 minutes ago, Crel said:

Remove (Head) and Ironhead linked matrix sounds like a great Trickster enchant. "Hey, catch!"

Or Remove Head and Flight. Then use the rest of your points on Swallow.

[womble]

OMG. I hadn't realised the Divine version allowed you to create self-powering ('return to manufacturer for refill') matrices for Rune Spells.

Lawks.

Urk.

And other expressions of boggle about the ramifications...

[PhilHibbs]

You've always been able to give away divine spells by making them into a matrix, at the cost of extra POW. Now that Rune Magic is reusable by initiates, the option to make the matrix has been reserved for rune masters which I think is ok.

Interesting that a Rune Spell matrix is recharged at a temple with worship, rather than by anyone with the spell refilling it. I like that.

[Crel]

21 minutes ago, PhilHibbs said:

So does including an "Attack Condition" (p250) remove the need for a POWx5 spell casting roll?

Or Remove Head and Flight. Then use the rest of your points on Swallow.

Oh, I like that better. Swallow's such a dumb spell and I love it. My RQ3 game's trickster initiate plans to learn it soon.

And I suppose the Attack Condition would remove that (and RQG doesn't seem to have the trigger conditions I'm remembering about, to activate on the spoken word w/o a cast roll like for that Fireblade example). After all, if there's an attack condition on someone entering an Area Enchant, who's the caster? Unless maybe rolling on MPx5 based on MPs in a linked matrix, or based on the enchanter's POW as he crafted the enchantment.

IIRC, the Rune matrixes were supposed to be filled at temples in worship in RQ3 too. 

[PhilHibbs]

4 minutes ago, Crel said:

Oh, I like that better. Swallow's such a dumb spell and I love it. My RQ3 game's trickster initiate plans to learn it soon.

"Let me tell you about my character!" ...who had 10 points of swallow, specifically because one of my friends was playing a SIZ 10 trollkin. He dodged.

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IIRC, the Rune matrixes were supposed to be filled at temples in worship in RQ3 too. 

I'm probably muddling them up with Truestone. The worship thing is useful because you get your matrix refilled on top of your rune points restored. Double dip!

Edited August 24, 2018 by PhilHibbs

[womble]

Ar. It's been a year or two since I read about Divine Matrix creation in v3... But I'm pretty sure that you couldn't have 'anyone with a "spare" point of POW' chuck it into the Enchantment pot in v3; it all had to come from the caster/creator. The ramifications of Divine Matrix Creation might need its own thread: how about the Clan Ernalda Priestess who decides to create a stacked "Bless Pregnancy 72" matrix in her birthing stool. Over the years, she cajoles/begs/persuades/bullies expectant mothers to sacrifice a point of POW into the stool. Eventually (possibly not even that far into the future, if she's a sympathetic midwife and given she's got access to Bless Pregnancy), she closes the enchantment. So any mother from that point could be bespelled to birth veritable Superhumans with most characteristics at species maximum. Worship doesn't have to be done on Holy days; it just takes a day, though refilling matrices does have to be done at a temple, so the frequency with which the stool could be used depends only on the success of Worship ceremonies (which can be boosted by POW sacrifices to be 95% successful) if the Priestess in question has a temple at which to Worship, or at which successful Worship is performed.

Maybe 'has access to' for Rune magic should include the consideration of the Rune Master's maximum Rune Points for stackable spells. I don't think, as written, it does.

As a Linked spell Shenanigan, consider a matrix of a variable Temporal Spirit Magic of high strength, which someone went out of their way to learn specifically, then forgot the big version once it was made. Then add a linked Extension-5. Every day there's a successful Worship, someone can have that spell cast on them/cast it on themselves for a year...

[PhilHibbs]

18 minutes ago, womble said:

The ramifications of Divine Matrix Creation might need its own thread: how about the Clan Ernalda Priestess who decides to create a stacked "Bless Pregnancy 72" matrix in her birthing stool. Over the years, she cajoles/begs/persuades/bullies expectant mothers to sacrifice a point of POW into the stool. Eventually (possibly not even that far into the future, if she's a sympathetic midwife and given she's got access to Bless Pregnancy), she closes the enchantment.

Except that I don't think you can create an enchantment that big. If you can't cast Bless Pregnancy 72, then you can't make a matrix for it. And 72 people who can all cast Bless Pregnancy 1 can't make it either. Two priests with 5 spare POW and 5 Rune Points each might be able to combine to make a matrix of Flight 5 and Extension 5. And I'm hoping my Trickster and his pet Orlanthi could make my Detach Head + Flight matrix.

It's entirely possible that "An enchanter cannot make a matrix for a spell they do not have access to" makes this impossible, other than maybe through Spell Trading. But where do you take the matrix to be recharged, if you put in spells from two deities? Can you recharge it in two separate worships?

Also, imagine how long and complex the worship ceremony would need to be to recharge a 72 point matrix!

Edited August 24, 2018 by PhilHibbs

[womble]

Maybe 'Rune Points available to the caster' is an inherent limit. That makes it less shocking. Still, a highly Charismatic Rune Master could have other people contribute most of the POW needed to make a 21pt stackable Matrix. The contributors don't need to know the spell, they just contribute the POW. 

Quote

 

The POW sacrificed for the enchantment does not have to be provided entirely by the enchanter; if the enchanter sacrifices at least 1 point of their own POW, others can voluntarily contribute to the sacrifice, with no limit.

 

(p249) Makes distinction between the enchanter (who has to 'have access') and 'others'. Perhaps 'others' would also be required to have access (perhaps even to the Enchantment themselves), but it doesn't seem clear to me that this is the intention and it would make the contribution option significantly less useful, especially if it was only Rune Masters could contribute, due to being required to be able to Enchant the thing on their own, if they'd had enough free POW. 

You wouldn't necessarily need two Priests with 5 Rune Points to make the Flight5/Extension5; if one Rune Master was making it, they'd just do it sequentially, and thinking about it, I'm not even sure you'd need to Link the two, since Extension has to be cast alongside another spell anyway. A Matrix of Extension 5 would be a good thing for a lot of Rune Masters to make or a temple to make available at the earliest opportunity...

I think the fact that there is no limit on the number of enchantments on an item suggests that the Detach Head/Flight/Swallow Matrix is eminently achievable. If your GM was liberal, you could recharge it at an Eurmal or Orlanth shrine because they're associated. Otherwise, you'd have to tour it round an Orlanth temple, a Dismembered Shrine and a Glutton Shrine... 

As to the complexity of the Worship ceremony, would it have to be any more than a successful normal Worship? I don't see any '...getting recharged as if it was a person with Rune Points...' -type language, though that might be a reasonable additional constraint on the Big Ones (though not the Extension 5 Matrices).

 

[jajagappa]

2 hours ago, Crel said:

Swallow's such a dumb spell and I love it. My RQ3 game's trickster initiate plans to learn it soon.

In my HQG game, the PC's used a Trickster's Swallow to escape a Lunar prison camp.  Initially I figured the PC's would just wait in the gut until they were vomited back up safely outside the Lunar encampment, but they discovered a secret door above the Trickster's stomach which led onto the Hero Plane (into a location simply called the Boneyard).  Most of them eventually found their way to the famous Crossroads of 100 Roads and then the path through the Fog of Ignorance to Lhankor Mhy's Ivory Tower (from whose book stacks they exited into the Jonstown Library).

[PhilHibbs]

1 hour ago, jajagappa said:

In my HQG game, the PC's used a Trickster's Swallow to escape a Lunar prison camp.

If you get swallowed by the right trickster at the right time, you end up popping out of the feeding horn on the Cradle.

Also, HOW MANY POINTS DID HE HAVE? I thought 10 was excessive!

Edited August 24, 2018 by PhilHibbs

[Joerg]

If you combine Swallow with Remove Head, do the people swallowed get teleported into the trickster's belly? In that case, give the Trickster a massive laxative before casting those spells... Perhaps a messy rebirth, but there are worse fates e.g. if the alternative is a dinner invitation with the Crimson Bat.

On the other hand, I see a problem here. What Trickster could fail the temptation to start the Swallow with its own headless body?

[jajagappa]

3 hours ago, PhilHibbs said:

Also, HOW MANY POINTS DID HE HAVE? I thought 10 was excessive!

It was a HeroQuest game, so didn't have to worry about that!  For RQG, I'd probably create a multi-point special rune spell that can swallow one or more living beings up to SIZ 18 and lasts for some short temporal period.  The difference being that the swallowed beings are neither killed nor destroyed, but retained in the Trickster's gut for say 1 hour after which they are, usually, vomited back up.