Dragonewt and Telmori werewolf PC's?

[The God Learner]

The dragonewt could be an EWF human who somehow reincarnated. ("But that's impossible!" "Yes it is, isn't it.") This would explain any extra-odd behavior and part of the fun could be to figure out who this was in the previous life and what this means. 

[PhilHibbs]

10 minutes ago, Grimmshade said:

Looks like my player group will tentatively be:

-the "necromancer" with some sort of dragon ties. (Are there necromancer's?!)

That would be... occasionally awkward... but not unheard-of. There is a skeleton dance troupe encounter in King of Dragon Pass. So long as they are careful to avoid Humakt, then any problems should be surmountable.

[D]

1 hour ago, Grimmshade said:

All the setting depth is pretty daunting, but I'm looking forward to a deep dive into the Core book this week. Hopefully I'll come out with a better overall idea of things.

Looks like my player group will tentatively be:

-the "necromancer" with some sort of dragon ties. (Are there necromancer's?!)

-either a centaur hunter or a baboon farmer.

-a human "chronicler" (scribe I think) "pyromancer" (not sure what this would be, possibly someone who summons fire elementals)

-one undecided.

That sounds like a great party, lots of possible plot hooks

[The God Learner]

39 minutes ago, D said:

That sounds like a great party, lots of possible plot hooks

It should start with them coming into a bar. 

[Al.]

How about an amnesiac Dragonewt?

Since your boss doesn't know huge amounts about Glorantha and lengthy exposition is dull for all concerned that neatly sidesteps all that. She doesn't know because her character doesn't know.

It also gives a reason for adventuring: how did I lose my memory? what's a memory? what is a me?

The Dragonewt's meddling with Necromancy might be related to that amnesia. Cause? Effect? Completely irrelevant?

 

Since nobody in either Glorantha or Real Land understands Dragonewts or how they behave, or why; that should apply doubly to an amnesiac, lost, forgotten Dragonewt. Hence nobody can tell you that you're doing it wrong. (And if everybody in your game is new to Glorantha then there is nobody to feel upset that you are doing it wrong anyway)

[jeffjerwin]

Necromancy is possible though Shamanism (ancestor-worship, contacting, binding and exorcising ghosts), theism (Zorak Zoran is one of the great non-chaotic necromantic cults; Shargash is too distant from the core setting (and not in the rules yet...)), and sorcery (Death rune manipulation).

Nontraya may or may not be Chaotic, but he's an enemy of the Earth pantheon and would be hunted by Babeester Gor initiates, along with a slew of others. 

Gark and Vivamort are definitely Chaotic. Nontraya was equated with Vivamort by the God-Learners.

Necromancy is Delecti's special niche in Dragon Pass and he will take an interest, particularly if the character is not a Zorak Zorani.

[Grimmshade]

42 minutes ago, Al. said:

How about an amnesiac Dragonewt?

Since your boss doesn't know huge amounts about Glorantha and lengthy exposition is dull for all concerned that neatly sidesteps all that. She doesn't know because her character doesn't know.

It also gives a reason for adventuring: how did I lose my memory? what's a memory? what is a me?

The Dragonewt's meddling with Necromancy might be related to that amnesia. Cause? Effect? Completely irrelevant?

 

Since nobody in either Glorantha or Real Land understands Dragonewts or how they behave, or why; that should apply doubly to an amnesiac, lost, forgotten Dragonewt. Hence nobody can tell you that you're doing it wrong. (And if everybody in your game is new to Glorantha then there is nobody to feel upset that you are doing it wrong anyway)

A great idea! However, this was almost exactly the background plot of her D&D4e dragonborn character. Still, I might be able to work it in as it would make all the stuff we don't know easier.

[Grimmshade]

17 minutes ago, jeffjerwin said:

Necromancy is possible though Shamanism (ancestor-worship, contacting, binding and exorcising ghosts), theism (Zorak Zoran is one of the great non-chaotic necromantic cults; Shargash is too distant from the core setting (and not in the rules yet...)), and sorcery (Death rune manipulation).

Nontraya may or may not be Chaotic, but he's an enemy of the Earth pantheon and would be hunted by Babeester Gor initiates, along with a slew of others. 

Gark and Vivamort are definitely Chaotic. Nontraya was equated with Vivamort by the God-Learners.

Necromancy is Delecti's special niche in Dragon Pass and he will take an interest, particularly if the character is not a Zorak Zorani.

Thanks for that! Being totally new, I had no idea where to begin with necromancy in the setting.

What would a "pyromancer" look like in the setting? 

[boztakang]

26 minutes ago, Grimmshade said:

What would a "pyromancer" look like in the setting? 

Lots of options available for that:

• A bog standard Lhankor Mhy "initiate" sorcerer with the Fire rune mastered.
• An (apprentice) Shaman specializing in Fire spirits (see Oakfed)
• An Elmal Initiate for a smattering of Divine fire magic.  (see the elmal/yelmalio thread for waaaay more info than you probably ever wanted to know about this)
• or, possibly a Volcano worshipper from Caladraland - just a smidge outside the core area (south of Esrolia) but near enough to be plausible. 

wrt the draconic char ideas, though I'm likely a bit late to the party here, she could always be an actual "Dream Dragon" except that the dragon is dreaming that it is human and doesn't know how to regain its "true" draconic form. That gives you as GM a lot of leeway for how and when to introduce draconic elements. She could have a variety of re-skinned spirit or divine spells related to her draconic nature (Protection gives her scales, Disrupts spits little balls of flame, etc) Or, she could just occasionally get flashes of her draconic nature as GM fiat. Even to the point of actually transforming fully into an actual Dream Dragon in some hopeless situation where total party wipe might otherwise reasonably occur. She could have one or more skills (like a "dragon rune" affinity) that slowly increase and allow her access to new abilities, or they could simply show up "randomly" at the GMs whim.

Because her character actually IS a dragons dream, there doesn't have to be a whole lot of backstory or logic to the whole thing. She seems like a perfectly normal human, or at least like a True Dragon's perception of what a perfectly normal human might be. She'd be oddly ignorant of some things "everyone knows" and deeply knowledgeable about other arcane things that she could never possibly have experienced as a mortal. (like understanding what a dragonewt is doing and why)

anyhoo - just another option for you to use, adapt or ignore as best suits you.

[womble]

58 minutes ago, Grimmshade said:

What would a "pyromancer" look like in the setting? 

Since your pyro would  also be a 'scribe', they could be an Initiate of Lankhor Mhy (Lightbringer God of Knowledge), with the "Philosopher" Occupation. Lankhor Mhy has a prescribed set of Sorcery abilities (Truth, Command and 3 spells from a short but useful list) that the Cult teaches, but the Occupation gives you another 'same again' of Runes, Techniques and spells. I'm no Sorcery expert but add Fire as your Philosopher Rune and Summon as your Technique, and you could take Conflagration, Create Wall of Flames and Summon (Salamander) as your three spells from your background and you're pretty 'flame on'!

[Grimmshade]

33 minutes ago, boztakang said:

Lots of options available for that:

• A bog standard Lhankor Mhy "initiate" sorcerer with the Fire rune mastered.
• An (apprentice) Shaman specializing in Fire spirits (see Oakfed)
• An Elmal Initiate for a smattering of Divine fire magic.  (see the elmal/yelmalio thread for waaaay more info than you probably ever wanted to know about this)
• or, possibly a Volcano worshipper from Caladraland - just a smidge outside the core area (south of Esrolia) but near enough to be plausible. 

wrt the draconic char ideas, though I'm likely a bit late to the party here, she could always be an actual "Dream Dragon" except that the dragon is dreaming that it is human and doesn't know how to regain its "true" draconic form. That gives you as GM a lot of leeway for how and when to introduce draconic elements. She could have a variety of re-skinned spirit or divine spells related to her draconic nature (Protection gives her scales, Disrupts spits little balls of flame, etc) Or, she could just occasionally get flashes of her draconic nature as GM fiat. Even to the point of actually transforming fully into an actual Dream Dragon in some hopeless situation where total party wipe might otherwise reasonably occur. She could have one or more skills (like a "dragon rune" affinity) that slowly increase and allow her access to new abilities, or they could simply show up "randomly" at the GMs whim.

Because her character actually IS a dragons dream, there doesn't have to be a whole lot of backstory or logic to the whole thing. She seems like a perfectly normal human, or at least like a True Dragon's perception of what a perfectly normal human might be. She'd be oddly ignorant of some things "everyone knows" and deeply knowledgeable about other arcane things that she could never possibly have experienced as a mortal. (like understanding what a dragonewt is doing and why)

anyhoo - just another option for you to use, adapt or ignore as best suits you.

Thanks for the pyromancer options.

That dream dragon thing sounds great actually! I'm pretty sure she could mold that into her basic idea too. Thanks!

[Grimmshade]

27 minutes ago, womble said:

Since your pyro would  also be a 'scribe', they could be an Initiate of Lankhor Mhy (Lightbringer God of Knowledge), with the "Philosopher" Occupation. Lankhor Mhy has a prescribed set of Sorcery abilities (Truth, Command and 3 spells from a short but useful list) that the Cult teaches, but the Occupation gives you another 'same again' of Runes, Techniques and spells. I'm no Sorcery expert but add Fire as your Philosopher Rune and Summon as your Technique, and you could take Conflagration, Create Wall of Flames and Summon (Salamander) as your three spells from your background and you're pretty 'flame on'!

Thanks man, that sounds perfect.

[g33k]

16 hours ago, Grimmshade said:

Are they acceptable as PC's?

IIRC, the Bestiary was (at least at one point) going to have support for Telmori PC's; I'm away from where I have that PDF, so I can't check to see if it does or not.

As Jeorg notes, the "Chaos Taint" might paint them up with great big targets for big parts of the setting; Storm Bulls, in particular, with their "Sense Chaos," might be all kinds of problematic; and even some of the PC's may have good reason to hate werewolves.

N.B. there ARE other shapeshifter types (non-chaotic) that might be of interest?  Alynx/shadowcat (via Yinkin) & bear (via Odayla), iirc.  I believe the Basmoli of Prax are separated from their Lion-God (and have thus lost shape-shifting in canon (?)) ... Have the Hsunchen tribes have been detailed yet in RQG ... ?

 

13 hours ago, Grimmshade said:

-the "necromancer" with some sort of dragon ties. (Are there necromancer's?!)

There ARE necromancers, of various sorts.  Many are Chaotic:  the mixing of the living and the dead is one of the great horrors of Chaos.  Again, this sort of Chaos is liable to cause PC-vs-PC fighting, and get all sorts of hostile attention from Chaos-Foes.

Even non-Chaotic necromancy, however, gets a special hate-on from Humakt, whose followers are among the most-feared warriors of Glorantha.  Humakt is a main Death-god; not evil but stern and rather absolute in his "thou shalt not..." edicts regarding any sort of undeath; dead means DEAD says Humakt, and enforces with extreme prejudice.

Of course, all these conflicts have their upside for the GM -- ready-made foes & stories!

 

13 hours ago, Grimmshade said:

-a human "chronicler" (scribe I think) "pyromancer" (not sure what this would be, possibly someone who summons fire elementals)

I note a certain risky irony in the scribe-type who uses lots of fire magic.  I imagine s/he isn't popular in libraries...

The Lightbringer (Orlanth/Sartar) god Lhankor Mhy would be a likely choice.   The corresponding Lunar god is Irrippi Ontor.

Gloranthan magic comes in 3 main varieties - common Battle Magic, divine Rune Magic, & knowledge-based Sorcery.  A "pyromancer" would likely either use Sorcery or Sky/Fire Rune spells (I mean, the Sorceror would likely use the Fire/Sky rune, too; but not via a god).  But the fire/sky element leads to another option:  the Yelm/Elmal (Sun-God) cults, and the ancient Solar-centric Dara Happan culture (now under Lunar sway, but still with lots of Solar influences).  Dara Happans have a HUGE written tradition, so scribes are a Big Thing there.

There is another notion worth considering -- the Shaman.  A keeper of lore&tradition (who could arguably have a "chronicler" bent) and intercessor with the spirit-world; they have lots of sprits & spirit-magic.  If s/he binds a lot of fire-spirits (e.g. to keep them from doing damage), he'll have a lot of fire magic available.  Over in Prax, there are lots of Shamans, and Oakfed the god of wildfires is hard to control (and fires are a huge risk) so a "firefighter-shaman" might come from there...

Edit - thoroughly ninja'ed by other/faster forum-posters!

Edited September 25, 2018 by g33k

[Grimmshade]

Semi-forbidden necromancy will be good for story purposes!

I'll look into Dara Happens, as that seems to fit fire scribe pretty well.

[Richard S.]

3 minutes ago, Grimmshade said:

Semi-forbidden necromancy will be good for story purposes!

I'll look into Dara Happens, as that seems to fit fire scribe pretty well.

Ah yes, the sun worshipping Greek/Babylonian assholes. They're a very rigid, patriarchal society ruling much of Peloria and currently the central provinces of the Lunar Empire. Their emperor, said to be a son of Yelm, is also the Red Emperor of the Lunar Empire and son of the Red Goddess, and the de facto head of the Yelm cult. All male Dara Happens are nobles, but only a few initiate to gods, preferring to merely be lay worshippers, and a small minority practice sorcery, mainly the cult of the scribe god Buserian. Families also practice ancestor worship, tracing their lineage back thousands of years into the god time. The Dara Happens are enemies of the Orlanthi and their god, seeing them as good-for-nothing rebellious barbarians (rebellion is the capital sin of Dara Happa), mortal enemies with all Darkness cults, and they dislike Water cults too. They are allied with the Red Moon and Yelm is married to the Earth goddess Dendara, so they are on friendly terms with those two pantheons.

[g33k]

7 hours ago, Grimmshade said:

 

3 hours ago, Richard S. said:

... They're a very rigid, patriarchal society ruling much of Peloria and ...

... And embarrassingly, the conquered subject-kingdom of the matriarchal Lunar Empire!  They try to ignore this inconvenient fact. Mostly they don't succeed.  Couldn't have happened to a nicer lot!  

[Austin]

8 hours ago, boztakang said:

she could always be an actual "Dream Dragon" except that the dragon is dreaming that it is human and doesn't know how to regain its "true" draconic form

That's super cool. Regardless of if OP uses that, I might steal it. 🤩

For the shamanism route, the taboo "Never put out a fire" seems on-character, not to mention horribly disastrous. I hadn't even thought of shaman, but there's definitely some fun there.

I'd just like to point out that if the pyromancer/maniac is a Lunar sorcerer, s/he gets access to the Moonburn spell... 😏 I don't know how your player wants to play it, but every pyromantic character I've ever seen has, at some point, become a cackling maniac launching fireball on mere whims. Might not fit your campaign as well as the LM Philosopher, though.

Edited September 25, 2018 by Crel
added 'sorcerer'

[Joerg]

1 hour ago, g33k said:

... And embarrassingly, the conquered subject-kingdom of the matriarchal Lunar Empire!  They try to ignore this inconvenient fact. Mostly they don't succeed.  Couldn't have happened to a nicer lot!  

The Lunar Empire isn't exactly matriarchal - most of its noble houses of Lunar background derive their status from descent from the Red Emperor., and tracing the lineage by male descent where possible.

The Takenegi dynasty isn't the first Dara Happan dynasty to have been founded by a woman - there is the Denesiod dynasty wherein Denesia wooed Raiba(mus), city god of Raibanth and a son or grandson of Yelm, so that her son would be within the four generations from an emperor to be eligible for the (then empty) post.

The Dara Happan empire wasn't exactly conquered, but liberated from oppressive, as patriarchal bull shah rule. Takenegi became co-ruler of the Dara Happan liberator Yelmgatha, whose dynasty failed to hold on to the title of Emperor (although two or three tried during upheavals which made a success look feasible, but the only ruler of the Empire to really dispose of the Red Emperor for a while was Sheng Seleris).

[Grimmshade]

The pyromancer player had done some investigating of wikis and was already considering Lightbringer it turns out.

I found Zorak in the Bestiary and it sounds perfect for the necromancer. (do humans belong to the cult as well?) I'm assuming that the create zombie spell creates a zombie and not a revenant like the text says.

Edited September 25, 2018 by Grimmshade
Typos

[Joerg]

38 minutes ago, Grimmshade said:

The pyromancer player had fine some investigating of wikis and was already considering Lightbringer it turns out.

I found Zorak in the Bestiary and it sounds perfect for the necromancer. (do humans belong to the cult as well?)

Yes, there are some (quite sinister) human Zorak Zorani berserkers. One of the recruiters in Prince of Sartar belongs to that cult:

http://www.princeofsartar.com/comic/68-recruiting/

The gentleman in the second panel with the tattooed red eye on his forehead who emanates Darkness is such a specimen.

38 minutes ago, Grimmshade said:

I'm assuming that the create zombie spell creates a zombie and not a revenant like the text says.

Yes, a rather mindless zombie without much (if anything) of the previous personality.

[Grimmshade]

Turns out my players are so eager that they already know the world better than I do from wikis and such!

[boztakang]

On 9/25/2018 at 4:32 AM, Grimmshade said:

(do humans belong to the cult as well?) 

They do, but it is VERY dangerous. Zorak Zoran worship is extremely violent and dangerous even for his troll followers. Humans being smaller, weaker, less armored and blind in the dark make excellent and attractive targets for the violent rages of their co-worshippers. I suspect human ZZi will always make very sure to bring extra fire to temple to ensure they are not victimized by the Uz there. Oddly, a ZZ temple would be one of the only Uz dominated places where a lit torch would not be immediately extinguished. 

Finding "safe" worship may make regaining rune points tricky for a human ZZi, but the fearsome rep they'd get for surviving in such a hostile cult could easily make up for it.  

It is also worth noting that Zorak Zoran is a berserker god - not at all the normal vibe expected for a "necromancer." Though that can be a feature rather than a problem, depending on the player.

[Grimmshade]

Would there be a better way to be a necromancer of the animate dead variety? OR is there another cult? (I doubt it would be detailed in RQG yet, but maybe I could sub in the Zorak game mechanics)

[boztakang]

I think in general you'd be looking at sorcery for that. A rogue Lhankor Mhy sage secretly animating corpses, or some strange soulless Western Sorcerer, or an apprentice/captive of Delecti who learned some of The Necromancer's sorcerous secrets before escaping/being sent on a nefarious mission for his master. I don't think RQG has the sorcerous Raise Dead/etc spells in the core book, but it would not be hard to house rule your own for now. (pattern on the ZZ spells, or make your own up entirely)

In general, necromancy is very much looked down on in the Dragon Pass region. Not a lot of respectable folk will want to have anything to do with it. A human necromancer PC is going to be a bit of a strange fish however they go about it, so that gives you a fair bit of leeway in terms of backstory.

[Austin]

5 hours ago, Grimmshade said:

Would there be a better way to be a necromancer of the animate dead variety? OR is there another cult? (I doubt it would be detailed in RQG yet, but maybe I could sub in the Zorak game mechanics)

There's some great rules bouncing around the web for playing Malkioni sorcerers, written by Sandy Petersen back in the 90's. I don't have a link, but I'm sure someone around here can help?... One of the nice things with BRP games is that different rulesets mesh together fairly well. However, it does depend on how canon-friendly you want your Glorantha to be. I'm not familiar with the nitty-gritty, but my take is that those rules (which sets up the West as pseudo-medieval fantasy, to my reading) are now considered pretty outside canon due to the Guide, which I don't actually own and haven't read.

I've been working on a sorcery writeup I'd be willing to share, if you're interested. It's a mess, and the rules are super "crunchy," which might not be a good fit for your game either. It's the rules my playgroup uses. It melds some concepts from M.A. Barker's Tekumel/Empire of the Petal Throne into Glorantha as sorcerous Saints of Stability and Demons of Change. One of the players in my group plays a sorcerer following Sarku, the Five-Headed Lord of Worms, who's all about the perfection of the intellect and lichdom and whatnot.