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Leingod

The Lore of Six Ages: Ride Like the Wind

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Maybe because "Hyaloring" just has a better ring to it. Of course, in-game you're usually going to be called "Riders" anyway, so it doesn't matter all that much either way.

Though, can someone explain to me why the Heortlings apparently called them "Ustrandi" if the wiki is to be believed?

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2 hours ago, Leingod said:

Though, can someone explain to me why the Heortlings apparently called them "Ustrandi" if the wiki is to be believed?

The wiki also says that Jenarong's Empire/the Jenarong Dynasty was called the "Ustrandlings" (either from GRoY or FS).

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3 hours ago, Leingod said:

Though, can someone explain to me why the Heortlings apparently called them "Ustrandi" if the wiki is to be believed?

That's just one of the many very real-world-like and for an entry-level researcher frustrating case of giving various different names to the same group of people - some based on ancestry, some on their place of living, some on their totemic enblems, some on historical events like their leader at first contact, or how their neighbors made fun of them.

Orlmarth - Woodpeckers - Starfires, for instance, and that doesn't include any derogatives from the western side of the ridges. 

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3 hours ago, Leingod said:

Maybe because "Hyaloring" just has a better ring to it. Of course, in-game you're usually going to be called "Riders" anyway, so it doesn't matter all that much either way.

Though, can someone explain to me why the Heortlings apparently called them "Ustrandi" if the wiki is to be believed?

That name (or rather Ustrandlings) is found in King of Sartar (page 77 of the new edition), as well as in SKoH and BoHM.

-ing is commonly used for "children/descendants of", suggesting that some prominent figure from them was known as Ustrand at some point. It's possible it was a corruption of Vuranostum.

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I've been playing the game again, looking for random bits of lore and such. One of the things I've noticed is how many of the other peoples living around the valley seem to be descended from refugees from Dara Happa, and I've been starting to try to piece together a picture of who each of these groups might be descended from, and how that might have shaped them.

  • The Hyalorings and Samnali are from Nivorah, but I think it's important to note that both of them descend primarily from that city's nobility. The Hyalorings were the cavalrymen, "who despite complaints from the charioteers had always enjoyed the status of nobles. They took their wives with them and a few servants. But to ride away you had to own a horse, and to own a horse you had to be a noble."
  • Adding onto the above, I suspect that the Hyalorings represented a newer sub-class of the nobility in Nivorah, while the Samnali were (or drew from) the older, more established nobles. The already-extant tension between them seems to have stemmed from the Samnali chafing at sharing noble status with these new upstarts, as well as simple competition for power/influence in Nivorah. It should also be pointed out that the Hyalorings left the city quickly, with nothing more than they could carry on their horses, while the Samnali stayed longer and had carts and slaves when they finally gave up Nivorah for lost, which probably also helps explain why the Hyalorings (who did still subjugate wives and daughters and hold slaves back in Nivorah) have become more egalitarian than the Samnali. Well, that and the fact that a horse is less of an investment and requires less upkeep than a chariot.
  • The Yanadlings are a group who branched off of the Hyalorings; they were members of the Northern Riders who abandoned the worship of gods after the disastrous rule of Nameforgot in favor of spirits.
  • The Ergeshites are nomadic herders who keep goats but not cattle or horses, and whose warriors worship a lion god and wear the pelts of great cats. In other words, they appear to worship Durbaddath, Uryarda and Ergesh. When meeting them, one of your nobles might say, “Like us, the Ergeshites fled the empire, adopting new ways during their exodus.” They'll also bring up how the goats and Uryarda leapt off Anaxial's boat early. I think the Ergeshites might have been Nivorans or other Dara Happans who were drawn from the lower (perhaps the lowest) classes of society: goatherds, perhaps some common soldiers, either or both of whom may also have been slaves. Though given how much better-off they seem than, say, the Yeleni, I think the Ergeshites might have left even earlier than the Hyalorings did, or at least that there might have already been an established community of runaways who adopted new refugees.
  • The Ergeshites and Votanki exist as separate peoples; the Votanki are hunter-gathers who follow their immortal hero Votank (your clan will explicitly compare his leadership over them to their own relationship with Hyalor when he was still alive) and his boon companion, the spirit Brother Dog. I haven't found any event where the two give any hint as to possible relationship or interaction between themselves, but I will note that the Ergeshites are stated to live northeast of the Imther Mountains, while the Votanki are found in the Dog Hills, meaning they're relatively close to each other.
  • I had previously said that the Yeleni weren't related to the Hyalorings, but I was mis-remembering pretty badly, because it's outright stated that their language "shows signs of kinship with yours," and they themselves say that "when we fled the destruction of our city we had to leave all but one of the old gods behind." I don't know which god that one might be (they're only stated to be spirit-talkers who venerate King Vulture), except that it isn't Pela (since they come to you hoping for a bride from your clan who can bring Pela back to them and let them farm again).
  • Anyway, the revealing part of that is that they fled the destruction of their city. Based on geography, I'd guess that they're actually the last people to flee from Nivorah, perhaps the commoners who believed that Samnal and his followers could keep hold of the city but then were forced to flee when the Samnali finally gave the city up for lost and left with what carts and goods they could hold but abandoned the rest. Alternatively, they might be descendants of survivors from Elempur (or both!). Since they had no horses or carts and had to flee on foot at top speed, they brought even less with them than the Ergeshites. They may have lost the gods of key skills like farming simply because the worship of those deities was never really with them in the first place, as they were the common city-dwellers who were probably made up of a lot of random professions that were useless out in the wild, like dyers and glass-makers.
  • I keep forgetting to check out the Ram kingdoms to the south, though I do remember that the Infithtelli to the southeast hate the disunited clans that are your neighbors for unclear reasons (who are of course the precursors of the Berennethtelli along with you).
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1 hour ago, Leingod said:

I had previously said that the Yeleni weren't related to the Hyalorings, but I was mis-remembering pretty badly, because it's outright stated that their language "shows signs of kinship with yours," and they themselves say that "when we fled the destruction of our city we had to leave all but one of the old gods behind." I don't know which god that one might be (they're only stated to be spirit-talkers who venerate King Vulture), except that it isn't Pela (since they come to you hoping for a bride from your clan who can bring Pela back to them and let them farm again).

Could they be from Rinliddi?

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4 minutes ago, metcalph said:

Could they be from Rinliddi?

Didn't the Rinliddi have a powerful empire during the Storm Age?

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I know Ergesh and Votank are confused with each other by Plentonius, and the wiki says Ergesh is considered the father of Votank. Furthermore, they are both said to be descendants of the kingdom of Zarkos - which fits with their location, as well as the modern groups in the Arcos river valley and Jarsting & Garst who also herd goats (although IF the Votanki are Zarkosites, then they have deviated quite far from their distant relative).

Either way, my main point is to say that I don't think these groups descended from Nivoran commoners, but rather come from whatever city lay in Zarkos. Unfortunately, I can't quite pinpoint which one that would be.

Senthoros is an option, as it is rumored to have lain on the mountains that were on top of the Hungry Plateau, before they were sheared off.

Another possibility is Abgammon, which is said to have been a city in Kostaddi. While this would leave them on the wrong side of the mountains, the Kostaddi are specifically noted for being goat herders in the Golden Age.

A third option is that these peoples were always predominantly rural.

 

20 minutes ago, Leingod said:

Didn't the Rinliddi have a powerful empire during the Storm Age?

Yes, the Riskesting Empire, I believe. Led by the Bright Eagle Lords

Although it should be noted that, for one, the Storm Age was *very* long, in terms of actual historical developments (in other words, a whole lot more of recorded events occured in the Storm Age than in the Golden or Green Ages, when everything seemed a bit... vague), and from what I can tell, the Rinliddi (aka Kestinliddi, or Riskestings, etc.) had several empires or states at various points, and the exact chronology relative to the rest of Peloria seems... iffy.

Edited by Sir_Godspeed
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Just got an event where some Yeleni want to join your clan; they confirm that they were "Sky People like you" and identify the one god they've managed to keep as "Urder the Thresher." Which rings no bells for me.

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10 minutes ago, Leingod said:

Just got an event where some Yeleni want to join your clan; they confirm that they were "Sky People like you" and identify the one god they've managed to keep as "Urder the Thresher." Which rings no bells for me.

After a quick google search, that appears to be one of the Sons of Lodril. He is depicted on the God's Wall. He carries a thresher (tool for beating the grain seeds from grass), and a bucket or basket.

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28 minutes ago, Sir_Godspeed said:

After a quick google search, that appears to be one of the Sons of Lodril. He is depicted on the God's Wall. He carries a thresher (tool for beating the grain seeds from grass), and a bucket or basket.

I guess that explains why they specifically want to try to reconnect with a grain goddess; I suppose Urder helps them harvest wild grains but they want a more rewarding crop to thresh.

It doesn't work out, BTW; your Pela priestess ends up miserable, barely able to maintain a pitiful garden.

Edited by Leingod
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On 1/29/2019 at 10:13 AM, Tindalos said:

That name (or rather Ustrandlings) is found in King of Sartar (page 77 of the new edition), as well as in SKoH and BoHM.

-ing is commonly used for "children/descendants of", suggesting that some prominent figure from them was known as Ustrand at some point. It's possible it was a corruption of Vuranostum.

Heort’s people are Heortlings, so it does seem likely these are Ustrand’s people. Of course, what Heortlings call others can be anything at all — “Horse Spawn” was Greg's term (used for the Grazers in the early days of resettlement).

IMO Vuranostum is a corruption of Vuranoste — note all the Grazer names like Hendroste, Jardanroste, etc. And note that the Dara Happan script has a glyph for -um.

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1 hour ago, alakoring said:

Heort’s people are Heortlings, so it does seem likely these are Ustrand’s people. Of course, what Heortlings call others can be anything at all — “Horse Spawn” was Greg's term (used for the Grazers in the early days of resettlement).

IMO Vuranostum is a corruption of Vuranoste — note all the Grazer names like Hendroste, Jardanroste, etc. And note that the Dara Happan script has a glyph for -um.

If I remember correctly, the Dara Happans tend to add -us or -um to a lot of Pelandan words as well.

EDIT: It might be the other way around for Vuranoste-Vuranostum though. The Grazers might've lost or reduced those suffixes, much like happened in the real world with the Romance languages (Latium-Lazio).

Edited by Sir_Godspeed
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Could well be, though since neither the horse people nor the Vingkotlings are Dara Happans, I assume the Dara Happan version of their names is incorrect.

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So it turns out that in the myth "Hyalor's Long Ride" that you learn from Cenala, the identity of who struck the third mortal blow to Hyalor is dependent on your clan's ancestral enemy:

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It was not he who dealt the third and final blow, however. This was struck by <Ovadorudus, the Ram god so violent even the Rebel feared him. He came upon Hyalor as he bathed in the sun and beat him with a club./Shargash the Demon Sun. Any ordinary person would be struck dead by a single slash of Shargash's mace, but Hyalor tottered away, mortally wounded./a troll who was also a spider, who punished him for trying to see her web before it was time./Aroka the dragon who filled his lungs with salt water./Mostal Dwarfking whose strange weapon filled his veins with molten iron./a new god that doesn't have a name yet. It left him with a weeping neck after trying to pull off his head. >

Ovadorudus (who seems to be Vadrus) is Hyalor's killer if your ancestral enemies are the Rams, Shargash if it's the Dara Happans, Cragspider(?) if it's trolls, Mostal if it's the dwarves, Aroka if it's the forces of Water, and a currently-nameless head-taking god if it's Scorpion Men (i.e. Chaos, though as descendants of Dara Happans the Hyalorings don't seem to understand Chaos as its own thing the way the Orlanthi do).

This mutability might simply be because of the way Hyalor's parting advice to Basikan is a message to try to understand even the forces of [insert greatest enemy of the clan telling the story here].

Edited by Leingod
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28 minutes ago, scott-martin said:

That's really interesting! (No time to install it yet.)

Does she take your fire?

No, though there are two separate instances that seem to foreshadow the Hill of Gold, most notably when you find it playing out before it has technically occurred (as there is no separation of Time and Godtime, so stuff like that just kind of happens). You can even help Yelmalio (though his name isn't given as such), and in return he'll promise you his aid when you need it the most (presumably in the sequel, which takes place in the Greater Darkness).

I should note, BTW, that doing this can anger your clan if the Dara Happans are your clan's ancestral enemies, which seems to lend further credence to the implications throughout the game that the deity known as "Little Yelm" to the Hyalorings is, in fact, Yelmalio prior to losing his Fire. Moreover, thinking about Little Yelm's role in their myths, I think he might also be Antirius, since the Hyalorings portray Little Yelm as the sun god of the Dara Happans now that Yelm is dead (just as Elmal is to themselves), and when you perform rituals, triumphing over Little Yelm consistently gives you the option of choosing power over Dara Happans as your reward.

Which probably explains why he's portrayed as he is in Hyaloring myths. Little Yelm is the representation of the Empire after Yelm's death, and so he is a figure of ridicule and mockery: a spoiled brat trying and comically failing to fill his daddy's shoes, his attempts to impose his sovereignty through subjugation of his supposed lessers always doomed to embarrassing failure.

Edited by Leingod
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I finally managed to get around to visiting all the Ram kingdoms to the south, as well as the Northern Wheels.

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We ventured up to the Wheel kingdom of Naztavlan, which encompasses lands that once belonged to our ancestors. We did not see any Rider clans there; if they have not been driven out entirely, they certainly have been pushed to the fringes. We gained hospitality from the Gar-Astin clan, and began to talk trade. Then their patrols called the alarm; they were under attack by Dwarves. The raiders overran our position, making no distinction between Wheel and Rider. Of course, we joined the fight in support of the Gar-Astini. I managed to slay the Dwarf leader. The rest of the Dwarves the Gar-Astini put to rout. The Gar-Astini celebrated our valor, and we showed them how much kumis Riders can drink. In thanks for our aid the Gar-Astini circle gave us gold chains worth [X] cows. They invited us to come back whenever we were in Naztavlan.

The Northern Wheels will actually send raiding parties at you, though they aren't substantially harder to fend off than any other Wheel clan, presumably due to the distance they have to travel. Also, someone on your clan circle will say during some event with them, "These Wheels established a kingdom several generations ago, under the canny leadership of Naztavlo the Tall." Your clan's Beren, I'll note, is also called "the Tall" by his fellow Riders.

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We found a Ram kingdom where hatred of the solar peoples runs especially high. The people who live there call themselves the Forosilvuli. We got into a fight almost immediately. The war band that attacked us decked itself in the skins and fangs of sakkars. Living sabertooths fought alongside them. We fended them off long enough to push them back and escape. We lost one of our horses to the charging sakkars, but otherwise emerged unscathed.

Staying away from populated areas, we entered a thick forest. There we encountered elves who said plants needed sunlight to grow. To reward us for this battle against the Forosilvuli, and all those we had yet to fight, they presented us with a treasure, the Rearing Belt Plaque, summarizing it: gold tablet affixed to an honor belt increases magnitude of victory when defending against a herd raid.

“Certain Orlanthi worship a tiger god named Yiskin or Yenkin or some such.” - Someone on your clan circle.

Consulting The Book of Heortling Mythology tells me that the Forosilvuli of Holay are one of the two Star Tribes, formed from the marriage of the Star Captain Forosil Ferocious to a daughter of Vingkot's son. The fact that the Star Husbands specifically needed to protect these people from Dara Happans explains why they have even greater enmity against the Fire Tribe than normal.

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While exploring in the southern Ram kingdom called Vestantes, Jereno's path is blocked by a party of its mightiest warriors and magicians. They are accompanied by what might be their totem animal, a large bear that eyes the horses curiously. The shield bearer of the Vestantes leader, Fangmar, conveys an offer. “Fangmar sharpens himself to challenge for chieftainship of his clan. He will engage in personal combat with you. If he wins, you die and the rest of your party are taken as slaves, to labor for us unto death. If you win, you gain a fabulous treasure, the Shining Sun Mask.” When you ask about the treasure, he says: “brings courage to the fearful.” What say you?

These would be the  tribe of "great warriors and magicians" founded by the marriage of Vestene Summer to Goralf Brown who lived in southern Aggar. I guess they might have adopted the worship of Odayla early on?

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We found a well-populated Ram kingdom. Its people, the Penentelli, resemble the Rams who live here in the valley without being exactly like them. Most notably, they live under the close watch of roving officials who collect tribute in the name of their king, Garmath. We found a clan, the Jarolings, willing to trade with us. They spoke passable Tradetalk. They warned us that royal tax collectors swarmed the area and gave us tips on avoiding them.

The tribe of Penene Winter and Kastwall Five who lived in Aggar. If you get caught by said tax collectors, they'll try to rob you of everything you own, including taking some of your explorers away to sell as slaves.

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We found a kingdom inhabited by Rams who call themselves Infithtelli. They despise the Rams who live here in the valley, calling them the Kestaytelli. When I asked for reasons behind this hatred I never got the same answer twice.

The Infithtelli of northern Tarsh were founded by Infithe Winter and Porscriptor the Cannibal. One of your clansmen will actually reference that epithet: "The founding king of the Infithtelli was called a cannibal. But then so was Stelfor Westclan, who merely was an implacable ruler."

I don't know what the name "Kestaytelli" might reference; the only things I can find that may be related to it are Kesta, a minor goddess in Ernalda's retinue who taught Ivarne (and thus Heort) how to store and preserve food, and Kestang, one of the heroic Vulture Campers who taught them how to fight trolls. Apparently they'll reward you if you regale them with a good story of beating said Rams, but they've always been indifferent for me.

I even found a new people who I had never encountered before:

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Journeying to the west, [Explorer] and company meet a strange people who they can, using the trade language, barely communicate with. These are the Omaseg, who herd shaggy deer as if they were cattle and move about protected by a cloud of snow. Their chieftain says they claim no one place as their own, but have moved south as the glacier has hidden the mosses and lichens their deer eat. When asked about gods, they say they do not understand what those are, instead deriving protection from Oma, mother of deer. She must be a powerful spirit of some kind.

Oh, and there's this event chain where this new spirit society, called the Antler Society, can be formed in your clan who provide some useful benefits during several events. I got the chance to ask them about the Antler shamans, and the answer surprised me.

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They said that the Omaseg used to wear antlers on their heads, until the unseeable things began to bubble up from cracks in the air. Then anyone who bore such a headdress risked turning evil and murderous. For this reason they were forced to abandon worship of Steg, the Stag Father. They gave Jereno a charm that would counter the luck-stealing abilities of antler shamans.

And wouldn't you know, I typed "antler" in the wiki to see what I would get and it turns out there's a certain enemy you face if you pick "Rivalry between warlords" as the new quest for Beren and Redalda to undertake after getting married at the end of the game?

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When Beren and Redalda return to the mound where they left Ernalda, they find their path blocked by a horrific antler monster made of several smaller monsters. What does Redalda do while Beren fights it? 

  1. Call thunder lizards to bite and gore it. 
  2. Make sure Ernalda is unharmed. 
  3. Make sure the <Golden Emblem/Hearthspine Spear/Iron Nugget/Troll Webbing> is not lost. 
  4. Turn the earth beneath the monster into quicksand.

 

antler.jpg

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The Omaseg made me think of the Uncolings. How many other "shaggy deer" that live in cold areas and eat mosses and lichen are there to choose from, aside from fantasy animals?


Very interesting stuff. It's cool to see these groups otherwise only known in historical snippets represented during their heyday.

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21 minutes ago, Sir_Godspeed said:

The Omaseg made me think of the Uncolings. How many other "shaggy deer" that live in cold areas and eat mosses and lichen are there to choose from, aside from fantasy animals?


Very interesting stuff. It's cool to see these groups otherwise only known in historical snippets represented during their heyday.

They probably are the Uncolings, before they had that name; I found them in the northwest, which is about as close to where they range in the Third Age as is possible with the encroachment of the Glacier.

Though I'll note that I'm not sure if the time of the game should be called the heyday of the Vingkotlings. After all, the presence of the Forosilvuli means that Vingkot is already dead and has been for some time, and at the same time we're well before the time of the likes of Heort.

This also, BTW, kind of gives lie to the later Orlanthi myths of the tribes being founded by Vingkot's sons and daughters, with only the Star Tribes being founded by "daughters of Vingkot's sons." In fact, in one event your Riders will even comment on it:

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Word spreads through the valley that three priestesses of the Kestangi clan have been manifesting immense divine power. The Rams claim these sisters, widely separated in age, as daughters of Vingkot. This probably means that they are descended from their people's founding god, Vingkot, though with several generations between them and that demigod. They visited us asking for gifts for Redalda, daughter of the youngest. Apparently they have since gained in power.

And the Hyalorings would know, because this is exactly how it works among themselves. Beren's birth is accompanied by many miraculous signs of his closeness to Elmal, and he is "directly descended" from Elmal through the line of Verlaro, and there is a counterpart to Beren among the Wheels (who presumably descends from Elmal through Samnal). Later on, he Heroforms into Elmal several times, such as when he is attacked and ritually blinded by Wheels; if you take him to the Rams for healing, Redalda convinces a priestess of Chalana Arroy to heal him and she'll Heroform into the goddess to cure Beren's blindness, which Redalda's father will actually construe as the same event recorded in "Chalana Arroy Heals the Scars."

Another note is on Time. Technically it hasn't begun yet, but that applies more to God than Man. People feel the flow of time as more or less linear in Ride Like the Wind, but time isn't universal yet, especially once the divine becomes involved. You can be out exploring and suddenly you're at the Hill of Gold, watching a fight that has yet to occur and yet is eternally happening. You receive a warning from Buserian telling you that the Rebel is going to try to murder Yelm, many generations after it's already happened. And so on.

Perhaps because of this, the Hyalorings do not measure time in numbered years. Many times, they speak of named generations the way we might talk about "periods" or "ages" in time. For example:

Quote

During the Warring Chieftains generation, Hyalor told us about honor belts, in hopes that we would fight without killing.

Since the Rekindling Generation, [Other Clan's Name] have been mostly left-handed.

One of your holy people, [Name], has been studying the story tent, reaching a surprising conclusion. A particular panel dating from the Generation of Enemies shows Raven meeting with [Enemy]...

There was also one I forgot to write down called something like the "Burning Generation" or something where the leaders were exposed as fools (it was brought up as an insult for some decision I'd made).

Similarly, years are only numbered and recorded in terms of how long a particular leader has ruled. So, the Hyalorings experience time linearly, but don't seem to feel any need to record it in terms of anything universal, keeping most measurements of time as something that records their own personal experiences. Which is surprising for former Dara Happans, who go to great lengths to act like they know exactly when and for how long everything of any importance happened.

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16 minutes ago, Leingod said:

They probably are the Uncolings, before they had that name; I found them in the northwest, which is about as close to where they range in the Third Age as is possible with the encroachment of the Glacier.

They may also be the Eolians, who are reindeer herders, and will later (during the great darkness) raise stone circles across northern Peloria.

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14 minutes ago, Leingod said:

Though I'll note that I'm not sure if the time of the game should be called the heyday of the Vingkotlings.

Oh shush, you. :P You know what I mean - back when they were still around.

 

14 minutes ago, Leingod said:

Perhaps because of this, the Hyalorings do not measure time in numbered years. Many times, they speak of named generations the way we might talk about "periods" or "ages" in time. For example:

While I agree with your assesment, this way of reckoning isn't that unusual in the RW either. Ancient Greek city states measured time by referring to different reigning rulers in each city (making for incredibly complex comparisons *between* cities), and many hunter-gatherer and pastoral cultures will also use similar terms, though probably not quite as formalized as the Hyalorings. There's also the the concept of Age Segments, which you find some some Nilotic cultures, Amerindian ones, as well as Australian Aborigines. Every (f.ex.) twelve years or so, a new Segment will be announced, and everyone born within that time will be considered part of the same "generation" if you will. There may be a preset number of these age segments, which makes them cyclical. If there are, say, twelve age segments, then this means a single cycle covers 144 years - giving it impressive accuracy for an oral and mnemotic time reckoning.

 

15 minutes ago, Leingod said:

Similarly, years are only numbered and recorded in terms of how long a particular leader has ruled. So, the Hyalorings experience time linearly, but don't seem to feel any need to record it in terms of anything universal, keeping most measurements of time as something that records their own personal experiences. Which is surprising for former Dara Happans, who go to great lengths to act like they know exactly when and for how long everything of any importance happened.

Well, Plentonius was, and we all know he screwed up in other places, so it's quite possible that the Dara Happan obsession with (linear) timekeeping is a new thing. After all, why be preoccupied with keeping time in the perfect, static Golden Age?

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