The Lore of Six Ages: Ride Like the Wind

[Sheliak]

55 minutes ago, Leingod said:

Ah, so it is. Maybe that's Redalda's mother, then? She kind of looks like her, but the hair and tattoos are different and she looks a bit older, so that would make sense.

I think so!

She looks like an older version of the pregnant woman in this image, too: 

https://sixages.fandom.com/wiki/File:Priestessesinblue.jpg

(I'm also really curious about where the Cenala plot is going--my hope is that Cenalan clans can revive/awaken her at the Dawn. Maybe there's room for her as a minor/local figure?) 

Edited June 10, 2020 by Sheliak

[JanPospisil]

Yep, that is Redalda's mom, and her aunts in the back. (who you can also see in the ritual image Sheliak posted)

[Sheliak]

Something I just noticed: in the myth of Taming the River, the Emperor is never named, and there's no judgement on him for not taming the Arcos in addition to the Oslira. In the ritual, things are a bit different: 

Quote

Endarei rides back to the days of the Golden City. The fields and pastures outside are drowned by flood waters, though Emperor Murharzarm had sent word that he had tamed the river after Shargash failed to.

Endarei can see the blue dragon Arcos surging over the land outside the city. The Emperor had done nothing for Nivorah.

There's a lot more judgement in this version! 

[Sheliak]

Another theory about Yonesh: he might be Valind, god of cold and winter, son to Vadrus, probably Freeze-Everything from "Zarlen's First Wander". 

Not sure why Yonesh would want to be the sun (other than ambition!), but it fits with the glacier being a site of Yonesh's power. 

[Leingod]

On 7/21/2020 at 12:23 PM, Sheliak said:

Something I just noticed: in the myth of Taming the River, the Emperor is never named, and there's no judgement on him for not taming the Arcos in addition to the Oslira. In the ritual, things are a bit different: 

There's a lot more judgement in this version! 

This almost certainly reflects the later development of the Hyalorings once they left Nivorah leading them to recontextualize their earlier myths; in the present day, the Riders take a dim view of kings, and even Elmal is portrayed as only taking on the responsibility of being the Sun (and thus, these still being a Solar people, implicitly the rightful king/emperor of the gods) reluctantly and out of necessity.

3 hours ago, Sheliak said:

Another theory about Yonesh: he might be Valind, god of cold and winter, son to Vadrus, probably Freeze-Everything from "Zarlen's First Wander". 

Not sure why Yonesh would want to be the sun (other than ambition!), but it fits with the glacier being a site of Yonesh's power. 

That would make sense as how a Solar people like the Nivoran exiles could potentially choose to view the imposition of the Glacier; even the likes of Yatelo, a god of hunger, are argued by at least some as being a Small Sun. As has been pointed out earlier in this thread, the term "sun" seemed to be a much looser category back before Time cemented the idea that there was only one actual Sun.

[Sheliak]

Going through the debugs again, and according to the scene names it looks like the Chaos monster in the endgame ritual with the trolls  has a name: Krarsht, Chaos goddess of intrigue and assassins, and leader of the Chaos army that unsuccessfully besieged the trolls of the Castle of Lead as well as a member of the one that killed Genert and Yamsur. Will kill them. Probably. Time is weird! She was "driven underground" according to the Glorantha wiki, which would be another reason why the trolls dislike her--that's their territory!

She is the mother of a bunch of nasty Chaos critters called Krarshtkids and Krarshtides; I presume that the very similar monster in the Issaries and Lhankor Mhy rituals back in KODP is one of those. 

 

(None of the other endgame chaos monsters have names, though I'm still holding onto my theory that the antler monster could be Mogjorbor.)

Edited October 26, 2020 by Sheliak

[jajagappa]

8 minutes ago, Sheliak said:

according to the scene names it looks like the Chaos monster in the endgame ritual with the trolls  has a name: Krarsht

Yes, the top picture looks like Krarsht - a big maw with six clawed legs.  She chews holes and tunnels through the world.  Dwarfs hate her.

9 minutes ago, Sheliak said:

I presume that the very similar monster in the Issaries and Lhankor Mhy rituals back in KODP is one of those. 

The second pic looks like Bagog, mother of the scorpionmen.  

[Sheliak]

Shouldn't Bagog have a scorpion tail? Although Krarsht's forelimbs do look less like pincers than I originally thought, so I'm less sure that that monster is related to her...

[jajagappa]

2 hours ago, Sheliak said:

Shouldn't Bagog have a scorpion tail?

I think its just out of view (or possibly blends in with her back).

2 hours ago, Sheliak said:

Although Krarsht's forelimbs do look less like pincers than I originally thought, so I'm less sure that that monster is related to her...

Krarsht did not have pincers, but claws.  This is the krarshtkid from the RQG Bestiary.

[Sheliak]

Definitely a different beastie, then! Thanks.

[Sheliak]

2 hours ago, jajagappa said:

Krarsht did not have pincers, but claws.  This is the krarshtkid from the RQG Bestiary.

 

Definitely a different beastie, then! 

Edited October 27, 2020 by Sheliak
Sorry for the doublepost--I managed to pust this in the process of trying to edit the other post, and apparently can't delete either one?

[Sir_Godspeed]

18 hours ago, Sheliak said:

(None of the other endgame chaos monsters have names, though I'm still holding onto my theory that the antler monster could be Mogjorbor.)

I assumed the whole anthler theme was a reference to Ragnaglar, since he is often depicted with antlers (as well as goat's horns), but your guess is good too.

[Sheliak]

I think I found the source myth (mythlet?) for the Threat to Crops and Forests heroquest, in the Book of Heortling Mythology: "Ernalda’s protectors were often successful. Orlanth defeated the ravaging dragon for her. Elmal destroyed the Iron Plants that were poisoning her children."

Dwarves aren't mentioned, but who else would make iron plants? They're the obvious suspects.  

Also: the Gods War event with the warring plant and water gods is called Hell Crack in the debug log. Which gives an idea of the scale of the battle, if nothing else...

Also finally found a "modern" Glorantha map of the area and Boulderwood is still there. So much for Elmal turning it into glass, I suppose... 

(And realized that Alkoth is technically in the upper left hand corner of the map, under the glacier from the beginning. But on the map! Kind of scary to realize...)

[Leingod]

Has anyone managed to see the full story of Autronos? The wiki says you can get updates of his rivalry with another hero named Usumatus, but I never managed to drag the game on long enough to see any of that, even when his birth actually fired reasonably early. I only managed to get to the part where Beren can duel him once. I'd be curious to see if there's any future plot threads or something with him (or maybe with the Wheel Kingdom that sometimes forms?) that might carry over into the next game.

[Sheliak]

Autronos's story can go in a few different directions! ... some of  which I only know about because I looked at the source code. 

I think the furthest the rivalry storyline can go is about like this (I copied this from the source code scenes file and may have guessed wrong about how some of the text actually displays).

"The <otherClan> hero Autronos is engaged in a bitter rivalry with another Wheel hero, Usumatus, of the <foilClan> clan."

"Autronos of the <otherClan> clan slew his rival, the Wheel hero, Usumatus, in a duel. It is said they fought over the love of a woman."

"Autronos of the <otherClan> clan married the daughter of the <foilClan.plural>, as part of a peace arrangement between the two clans. You may recall that he slew their champion, Usumatus. The way I hear it, Autronos' bride is not the woman the two heroes fought over. So this story ends in woe for all."

 

I don't think he ever gets caught up in the Wheel Kingdom story arc; one of the possible snippets you can hear about him has him refusing to be chieftain of his clan even though they want him to do it. No word on if they also wanted him to be king! (Though it would have been fun to have Beren offering to go talk to his old friend the Wheel King to resolve some of those issues.) 

And sometimes Autronos will randomly die instead (anything from fighting Rams while exploring to the south or to rescuing a kidnapped priestess). There are also a few different random heroic deeds you can hear of (fighting the Alkothi, finding his way back from the Gods War after getting lost from a ritual, killing a dwarf made of iron, meeting Elmal, making a perfect chariot etc.) 

The duel event has a few different variants too—if it's not to the death (either one can win), they make friends and all subsequent Autronos updates are delivered by Beren talking about his "old sparring partner." It's kind of endearing. 

"I am back from my duel against Autronos. The pup wasn't so tough as they said. I banged him up good. Despite his lordly bloodline, he took his defeat with good grace. We drank kumis together, and I showed him a few tricks. The next time someone comes at him like I did, they'll regret it."

"I'm back from my duel against Autronos, with some bruises and scrapes to teach me humility. That boy sure can fight! You should have seen the older nobles' stuffy faces when, in his victory, he said he wanted to drink kumis with me! He'll go far in the valley, you can bet on that."

Edited February 10, 2021 by Sheliak
My attempts at fancy formatting were failures.

[Leingod]

Another minor-but-interesting bit of lore I found out recently: In clan creation, one of your potential famous events is "The Grain Contest of Erkonus, where the barley goddess Pela triumphed over wheat and beezil." Your story tent reflects this event by pointing to the part "when the grain goddess Pela showed how to plant and harvest her golden barley. Our ancestor Sarsadiga was there in the celestial fields, and brought back the seeds and sickle." This event (or something like it) is briefly mentioned in a few places.

Page 48 of The Glorious Re-Ascent of Yelm says that Erkonus (Star #17) was where the Grain Contest was held before the Darkness, and afterwards the Grain Teachings were found there, and page 51 lists Barley, Millet, and Beezil (Stars #64-66) collectively as the "Grains of Erkonus;" they are also described as the crops of the Dry People, in contrast to the three grains of the Wet People (which are all different kinds of rice).

Meanwhile, page 29-30 of the Entekosiad seems to be describing this event when it recounts the Gods' Second Error, where Entekos is tricked by Hare into creating winter and a grain contest is held, which is won by barley (though "beezil," whatever it is, is seemingly not mentioned here, even though there are a total of nine competitors, though the name of one seems to be omitted). This is, I think, the only place a winner is actually mentioned.

Finally, page 318 of the Guide to Glorantha says this contest took place at the Plain of Jars in Silver Shadow. This placement might be derived from the Entekosiad account, which doesn't seem to place this event as happening up in the Sky World.

I'm actually kinda curious as to what beezil is. I'm guessing it probably isn't really meant to be anything, it's one of those things to remind you that not everything on Glorantha has an earthly counterpart. But I like to think it's sorghum, which despite being one of the most important and widely-grown cereal crops in the world is something a lot of people don't even know exists. It just seems fitting.

Edited February 12, 2021 by Leingod

[ZedAlpha]

As a side note, I’m playing this game through with my partner and their husband, and they both really love the game and the lore. They really like the writing of the myths, particularly Hyalor’s Golden Tablets.

[Leingod]

7 minutes ago, ZedAlpha said:

As a side note, I’m playing this game through with my partner and their husband, and they both really love the game and the lore. They really like the writing of the myths, particularly Hyalor’s Golden Tablets.

I think "Relandar's Ranking" is my favorite, just for how annoyed the narrator is about Hyalor and his tablets.

Well, okay, "Hyalor's Long Ride" is probably my favorite. It's surprisingly touching with Hyalor's farewells to his people and his faithful steed.

[Leingod]

This isn't really "lore," but I figured this bug was funny enough to be worth showing. Apparently I smoked the Zar Hawks so hard in that last raid they started thinking and acting like they were another clan entirely even though they're still answering to the name Zar Hawk.

To make it more on-topic, I'm guessing the name "Zar Hawk" is meant to be inspired by Zarlen, the Bright-Tailed Wanderer, son of Elmal, and Hyaloring god of explorers. An interesting thing to note is that The Glorious Re-Ascent of Yelm (pg. 32-33) names Emperor Jenarong as the descendant of a god called the "Starlight Wanderer." A footnote says this god is "probably Reladivus or Kargzant," but as far as the game's lore is concerned, Reladivus-as-Rider is probably the Dara Happans carrying out Manarlavus's threat to un-person (un-deity?) Elmal by attributing all of his attributes and deeds to his son (though the Wheels do still worship him, so maybe not entirely), and Kargzant is likely a later development of the Elmal mythic complex that diverged into a different god (or rather, my own theory is that "Elmal" is a name being used for the benefit of the player, so both Elmal and Kargzant are offshoots of the Nivoran diaspora's patron sun god that developed differently).

My point being, maybe Zarlen is the Starlight Wanderer, and over time he became considered more just an aspect or title of his father, whom Jenarong knew as Kargzant and paid worship to. Or maybe Zarlen somehow morphed into the Star Captain called Kuranits who was the Starlight Wanderer's son?

Another notable thing about Jenarong's reign is that he (well, his father Hirenmadar) restored Raibanth, which had become a ghost city, and its inhabitants - when they later get mad about an influx of new refugees - are addressed as the "Seven Families." And what's more, Jenarong solves this problem by making the refugees half-citizens; it presents this as an innovation of Jenarong's, but in the game, you can give this very status to people you encountered in clan creation. Hmm...

Edited February 13, 2021 by Leingod

[jajagappa]

23 minutes ago, Leingod said:

I'm guessing the name "Zar Hawk"

Alternately it could be related to:  Zarkos, Ozarcos, and related terms (e.g. the goat herding people who moved east through the Gap of Tork and settled in the Arcos Valley (and eventually gives rise to the derivative names of Garsting and Jarst).  Particularly since the Arcos Valley is the home of the Starlight Ancestors based on the map in GRoY.

Edited February 14, 2021 by jajagappa

[Sheliak]

One of my theories for a while has been that Gamari is one of the gods who die temporarily during the Great Darkness, and that the reason that she doesn't stick around as Horse Mother in the Orlanthi pantheon is that a deified Redalda kind of takes over her job, so that after the Dawn they don't restore their connection to Gamari. But the Riders who don't become Elmali-Orlanthi don't have Redalda, so they'll have to maintain horse magic differently. Maybe they assign it directly to Elmal/Kargzant, and that's where the "Sun Horse" comes from?

[Sir_Godspeed]

6 minutes ago, Sheliak said:

One of my theories for a while has been that Gamari is one of the gods who die temporarily during the Great Darkness, and that the reason that she doesn't stick around as Horse Mother in the Orlanthi pantheon is that a deified Redalda kind of takes over her job, so that after the Dawn they don't restore their connection to Gamari. But the Riders who don't become Elmali-Orlanthi don't have Redalda, so they'll have to maintain horse magic differently. Maybe they assign it directly to Elmal/Kargzant, and that's where the "Sun Horse" comes from?

Worship of the goddess GamarA survived with the Jenarong though, so she can't be all gone? 

It's a fair point where exactly the "horseness" of Kargzant comes from, though.

[Leingod]

16 minutes ago, Sheliak said:

One of my theories for a while has been that Gamari is one of the gods who die temporarily during the Great Darkness, and that the reason that she doesn't stick around as Horse Mother in the Orlanthi pantheon is that a deified Redalda kind of takes over her job, so that after the Dawn they don't restore their connection to Gamari. But the Riders who don't become Elmali-Orlanthi don't have Redalda, so they'll have to maintain horse magic differently. Maybe they assign it directly to Elmal/Kargzant, and that's where the "Sun Horse" comes from?

A god doesn't really have to die to be displaced by another one (see for example Siwend, who was apparently the Orlanthi hunter god before being completely displaced by Odayla and so just sort of faded away). Other descendants of the Nivoran diaspora - most notably the Gamatae headed by the dynasty of Jenarong, whom I mentioned above - kept her as Gamara, which is what all references outside this game call her (same with how Buserian is spelled with a "y" in this game). In fact, Jenarong built a temple to her in Raibanth.

Of course, whether and where exactly she survives in the Third Age I couldn't tell you. Plentonius identified her with a figure on the fourth row of the Gods Wall (which represent the "Gods of Below" whose worshiped is proscribed), which indicates she wasn't really looked on kindly by the Dara Happans after the Jenarong Dynasty (much like a lot of nomad stuff), but there may be some memory of her left somewhere.

Edited February 14, 2021 by Leingod

[Tindalos]

9 hours ago, Leingod said:

Of course, whether and where exactly she survives in the Third Age I couldn't tell you. Plentonius identified her with a figure on the fourth row of the Gods Wall (which represent the "Gods of Below" whose worshiped is proscribed), which indicates she wasn't really looked on kindly by the Dara Happans after the Jenarong Dynasty (much like a lot of nomad stuff), but there may be some memory of her left somewhere.

Arandayla, the horse goddess worshipped by the Grazelanders; and Hippoi, the horse goddess of Pent, are probably the same.

[Sir_Godspeed]

13 hours ago, Tindalos said:

Hippoi,

I knew there was a Pentan horse goddess, but I couldn't remember what she was called. Isn't she also kinda the Pentans' women's goddess (ie. a bit like Ernalda/Eirithia/Oria, etc.)