The Lore of Six Ages: Ride Like the Wind

[davecake]

3 hours ago, Sir_Godspeed said:

Isn't she also kinda the Pentans' women's goddess (ie. a bit like Ernalda/Eirithia/Oria, etc.)

The Pure Horse People worship Dendara as the spouse of Yu-Kargzant, probably under the name La-Ungariant, as a fairly direct equivalent to Ernalda, and worship the horse goddess under a different name (I'm not sure what). They also worship Hippoi, who is her daughter. Like among the Praxians, the Earth goddess role is understood and revered, but not of as much practical value to a non-agricultural people, and she is not connected to the Grain goddess(es) as she is in Peloria. 

The rest of the solar Pentans (the majority) I think don't worship her directly, probably for the same reasons of lineage that they don't worship Yu-Kargzant directly but worship Kargzant - their womens goddess is Eiritha and/or Hippoi, and the womens role is concerned with herds, not the Earth (or sovereignty). The Storm tribes of the Pentans probably much the same, just with different mens gods. I think the horse goddess/herd goddess still acknowledges the Earth Queen as an associated cult in ceremonies. 

At some point the Feathered Horse Queens must have essentially proved that Ernalda and Dendara are the same for the purposes of Grazer myth, and so the wife of Yu-Kargzant is the same as Ernalda is the same as the mother of Kero Fin. Which is impressive, if for other reason than the God Learners failed to prove that Ernalda and Dendara are the same. 

[Leingod]

14 hours ago, davecake said:

The Pure Horse People worship Dendara as the spouse of Yu-Kargzant, probably under the name La-Ungariant, as a fairly direct equivalent to Ernalda, and worship the horse goddess under a different name (I'm not sure what). They also worship Hippoi, who is her daughter. Like among the Praxians, the Earth goddess role is understood and revered, but not of as much practical value to a non-agricultural people, and she is not connected to the Grain goddess(es) as she is in Peloria. 

The rest of the solar Pentans (the majority) I think don't worship her directly, probably for the same reasons of lineage that they don't worship Yu-Kargzant directly but worship Kargzant - their womens goddess is Eiritha and/or Hippoi, and the womens role is concerned with herds, not the Earth (or sovereignty). The Storm tribes of the Pentans probably much the same, just with different mens gods. I think the horse goddess/herd goddess still acknowledges the Earth Queen as an associated cult in ceremonies. 

At some point the Feathered Horse Queens must have essentially proved that Ernalda and Dendara are the same for the purposes of Grazer myth, and so the wife of Yu-Kargzant is the same as Ernalda is the same as the mother of Kero Fin. Which is impressive, if for other reason than the God Learners failed to prove that Ernalda and Dendara are the same. 

It's interesting, because King of Sartar (on pg. 90-91) lists the gods of the Grazers and the vendref and says that their great earth goddess is Orest ("Earth Mother, who gives forth all life. The mountains are her children"), who is the mother of La-Ungariant ("First Wife of Yu-Kargzant, and goddess of the women of the people"). Orest is the one identified as Ernalda in the vendref section, saying Ernalda is "another name for Orest, except this one allows herself to be cut with plows."

On the other hand, later stuff like the RQG book's write-up on the Grazers (pg. 116) says this about the FHQ:

Quote

The Earth goddesses have great authority in the Grazelands. The Feathered Horse Queen incarnates imposing Earth powers for her worshipers and is the embodiment of sovereignty for all Dragon Pass. She is the High Priestess of the Earth for both the Pure Horse People and the vendref, and the Shaker Temple and many other cults throughout Dragon Pass recognize her authority. Her goddess has many names: she is called Ernalda by the Orlanthi; Dendara by the Dara Happans; and La-ungariant by the Pure Horse People.

This might just be a case of old material being superceded by the new, but my personal theory is that the FHQ has taken advantage of the ambiguity of "aspect vs child/sibling" when it comes to the divine that the Earth goddesses in particular have a lot of. In other words, I suspect the FHQ succeeded where the God Learners failed because rather than try to directly prove that Ernalda = Dendara, she proved that La-Ungariant/Dendara is not merely Orest's/Ernalda's daughter but an aspect of that greater goddess, which adds enough wiggle room that the undertaking could succeed. But La-Ungariant is the name most used, because it's the one most Grazers would encounter more in their daily lives; I suspect Orest was one of those divinities that was mostly just a name to them until the FHQ came around.

[Leingod]

On the topic of my wild, probably-incorrect theories and speculations about gods, I've got one about the god whose death and fall to the ground triggers the Skyquake halfway through the game.

As has been noticed before on this thread, Dostal is almost certainly the god the Grazers will worship later as Dastal; not only are their names almost identical, they also have nearly identical portfolios as the gods of both hunting and with being the god who teaches boys how to be men (note that Dostal's myth is barely even about the actual hunt itself, but instead the lessons he imparts to the future chieftains of the Four Clans). However, it's not exactly the same: that same write-up on the Grazer pantheon in King of Sartar I referenced above also says that Dastal is the god of herding. Dostal, of course, has no such connotations that we can see in the game.

In Six Ages, the god who dies midway through the game is called Yestal the Herder, a minor god who "guards the boundaries between pastures;" other than the calamity his death causes, he's apparently so minor to the Riders that he never merits a mention outside of it. Which seems a little odd when you consider how important pastures and herds are to the Rider way of life (admittedly, fellow herder-god Voriof was also barely mentioned in King of Dragon Pass, but let me have this).

It seems likely that after Yestal's death, his portfolio as the god of herders was taken up by Dostal/Dastal (incidentally, note how similar those names are), but I'm willing to bet that this was a process that had already been happening for some time, and Yestal's death just finished it. Yestal was probably a god that dated back to Nivorah, while Dostal is mentioned in multiple places to have been adopted after the fall of the city. My guess here is that Yestal had a more prominent place in Nivorah and the early years of the exodus from it, perhaps even having been the god who taught Nivoran boys valuable life lessons, but that once they were out in the wilds Dostal's lessons were just more useful and applicable, so over time Yestal faded into just being a part of Elmal's entourage, a name in the crowd that nobody really worships except as collateral in big rituals honoring a bunch of gods at once.

[jajagappa]

3 hours ago, Leingod said:

their great earth goddess is Orest ("Earth Mother, who gives forth all life. The mountains are her children")

This might well be Kero Fin rather than Ernalda, and Kero Fin is the land goddess of Kerofinela (aka Dragon Pass).  Sovereignty over Dragon Pass comes from Kero Fin, and it is through her that the FHQ gains her title of Queen of Dragon Pass.

 

[alakoring]

On 2/13/2021 at 3:40 PM, Leingod said:

This isn't really "lore," but I figured this bug was funny enough to be worth showing.

By chance, do you still have that save? If so, can you send it in as a bug (see https://sixages.com/index.php/resources/)? I think I know what happened but would like confirmation.

[Jeff]

I am very reluctant to try to equate material from Six Ages (set during the God Time), with the King of Sartar material on the Grazeland Gods (which is mostly pre-Feathered Horse Queen), and then with the current religious believes of the Grazelanders. 

The Pure Horse People of Pent and Prax worshiped Dendara (aka La-Ungariant) as the wife of Yelm (Yu-Kargzant). When they came to the Grazelands, they added Orest as the Land Goddess. When the Pure Horse People starting fighting with the Orlanth-worshiping farmers AND with the Earth Priestesses, the Feathered Horse Queen went down into the womb of the earth and came back with Ernalda, not Dendara. The goddess of the Pure Horse People (possibly still called La-Ungariant) is not to dutiful wife of Yelm, but the proud and independent Earth Queen who takes her husbands and lovers as she wills. The Yelm cult protests - and the Feathered Horse Queen beat them down and forced them into abject submission. She rules, not them.

As a result, by the Hero Wars, the Grazeland religion has changed a lot. At the apex is Ernalda, the independent Earth Queen - and her incarnation of the Feathered Horse Queen. Yelm is the patron of the Pure Horse tribe and the aristocratic men. But Orlanth is openly recognised and acknowledged as one of Ernalda's husbands (and often the main one); and worshiped by many of the farmers. And the Feathered Horse Queen is defended by a regiment of Humakti who are loyal only to her. And the Feathered Horse Queen is tied by dynastic links to Boldhome and Furthest. 

In short, things have changed a lot in the Grazelands and Six Ages is very ancient history. 

[Leingod]

4 hours ago, alakoring said:

By chance, do you still have that save? If so, can you send it in as a bug (see https://sixages.com/index.php/resources/)? I think I know what happened but would like confirmation.

Unfortunately no, I'm not really in the habit of keeping the saves after I beat a playthrough, since I use the same name every time and it got confusing. Sorry about that.

Although, in my most recent save, which I do still have, I got a bug where I managed to convince all the clans of the Cenala revelation in that first event, but the game acted like there were still non-believers, even after Cenala showed up and healed the valley. So I'll send that, at least.

[Ladygolem]

5 hours ago, Jeff said:

Orlanth is openly recognised and acknowledged as one of Ernalda's husbands (and often the main one); and worshiped by many of the farmers.

Aren't vendref forbidden from worshipping Orlanth, and worship Barntar instead? Maybe they worship Orlanth in secret?

[Leingod]

47 minutes ago, Ladygolem said:

Aren't vendref forbidden from worshipping Orlanth, and worship Barntar instead? Maybe they worship Orlanth in secret?

I guess that's one of the changes that's happened since the Feathered Horse Queen took over? The RQG book still says the Vendref worship "Ernalda and Barntar" with no mention of Orlanth, but on the other hand given how Barntar can be a subcult of Orlanth I guess it would hard for the Grazers to tell the difference until they suddenly start throwing Thunderbolts at you.

[alakoring]

9 hours ago, Leingod said:

Unfortunately no, I'm not really in the habit of keeping the saves after I beat a playthrough, since I use the same name every time and it got confusing. Sorry about that.

Although, in my most recent save, which I do still have, I got a bug where I managed to convince all the clans of the Cenala revelation in that first event, but the game acted like there were still non-believers, even after Cenala showed up and healed the valley. So I'll send that, at least.

Do save at least one game, if you want to continue your clan’ s story once “Lights Going Out” is out.

And yes, we’re still fixing bugs in “Ride Like the Wind.”

[Leingod]

Recently started playing the game again, so I decided to also resurrect this thread again to talk about yet more stuff I've noticed in terms of lore. For now I'll be talking about the names (or potential names) of the local clans. First, the Riders:

Quote

• Amber
• Arrowstone
• Blackspear
• Blue Crest
• Brighteyes
• Brilliant Hoof
• Burnpeak
• Eyes of Gold
• Fireflower
• Flame Singer
• Flint Heart
• Four Drum
• Gold Milk
• Greenrock
• Grey Wing
• Gryphon
• High Stallion
• Honey Mane
• Jade Colt
• Old Eagle
• Red Feather
• Ruby Gate
• Seven Stars
• Shining Blossom
• Sky Racer
• Starshine
• Sun Bow
• Tricorn
• Twinsong
• White Fox
• Yellowhill
• Zar Hawk

Your own clan also has its own pool of default names. The ones I can recall right now are: Blue Arrow, Burning Axe, Golden Hand, Night Shield, Star Dancer. There's at least a few more I'm forgetting. I've only split my clan once, but it seems there's a separate pool of names for that, as the name they chose for themselves that time was "Sunflower."

(Incidentally, the name I give my clan pretty much every playthrough is "Golden Axe." 😉)

Anyway, other than the obvious reference in that list ("Blackspear" clan, huh?), there's not much to talk about there except for the name Zar Hawk, which I've already done. Though on that note, I will point out that "Zarkos" is actually one of the potential names for an Ergeshite lion-warrior who comes to duel one of your clansmen in an event, so that's interesting given what @jajagappa had to say about it the last time I brought it up (though it seems the Ergeshites either are, or are predecessors of, the goat-herders known as the Sidarsi at the time of the Dawn).

Actually, one question: Does anyone know of an important Gloranthan constellation with seven stars in it?

Next, the Wheels:

Quote

• Ar-Tarima
• Aryash-Tev
• Char-Orisa
• Chov-Ashda
• Dar-Shama
• Er-Charkar
• Ku-Rander
• Lo-Arish
• Mor-Kagin
• Nar-Onon
• Oro-Tagin
• Paral-Un
• Sa-Gorin
• Tor-Ashda
• Varn-Rash
• Yu-Mergin

This all means nothing to me (though I do at least notice the "Yu-" prefix, which you also see in "Yu-Kargzant"), so I have even less to say here (I'm really only going to be talking about the Rams, honestly). I'm mostly just hoping someone more familiar with stuff like the GRoY might notice something meaningful in this.

All I can really conclude is that this naming scheme is probably just another indication of how stuck in their ways the Wheels are; it's been several generations since the exodus from Nivorah and the language of the Riders and Wheels has changed (when you meet Imperial refugees from Orlentos, the event says they speak an "archaic version" of your own language). Most likely, the Wheels are still using the archaic form for things like the names of their clans and other uses, even though in everyday use they seem to speak the same version that the Riders do.

As an aside, though, I love how many different peoples you can integrate into your own clan well before the marriage of Beren and Redalda that will give rise to the Berenethtelli. You can adopt Yeleni hunter-gatherers, Ergeshite goat-herders, and Orlentosite refugees, each of whom has something useful to teach you.

Anyway, the Rams:

Quote

• Andayling
• Barmering
• Erthaling
• Genadari
• Irnathi
• Jernelthi
• Kastwalting
• Kestangi
• Lastraling
• Orlmarth
• Ornolsting
• Orvisi
• Porganosi
• Soranding
• Urkarning
• Varleving
• Walakering
• Zethmaring

One notable feature is the use of a few names that will recur later, most notably "Orlmarth." Another is that all of these are derived from personal names (presumably of ancestors), and that this seems to hold true of all the Rams you can encounter in the game; all of them lack "descriptive" names entirely, much as the Rider clans have no clan names derived from personal names. More importantly, though, two of these names are particular familiar and interesting.

"Kastwalting" seems to be derived from Kastwall Five, husband of Penene Winter and co-founder of the Penentelli with her. However, interactions and events seem to indicate that at least most of the local Ram clans broke off from the Infithtelli. Perhaps those only make up the bulk of them, and the Rams who've settled around the Black Eel river valley have diverse origins? That might be part of why they haven't formed their own tribe.

Just as interesting is the name "Lastraling," which seems to be derived from Lastralgor, founder of the Lastralgortelli. That tribe has already disintegrated by the time the game starts, as the Forosilvuli are in this game and that was one of the two tribes formed from the Lastralgortelli remnants. Perhaps even more evidence that the "Kestaytelli," as the Infithtelli call the hated Rams of your home valley, have more diverse origins than I'd previously assumed.

There are other names that seem derived from names that appear in the Book of Heortling Mythology, but almost certainly aren't in-universe references to those exact personages, due to the timeframe involved: "Kestangi" seems to derive from an Uz-fighting hero of the Vulture Camp in the Greater Darkness, for example, which hasn't happened yet (though maybe he was around long before the Vulture Camp?). Ornolsting" seems to come from Ornolsta, a beautiful queen of the Koroltes who was defended by Deskedov the Punisher, one of Heort's ancestors. "Orvisi" likely comes from Orvis, a king of the Garanvuli. "Soranding" might be from Sorandessa, a heroine of the Human Resettlement, which happens all the way in the Third Age(!).

[Leingod]

Also hey, look at what I literally just realized was right there in the Glorious ReAscent of Yelm the whole time (pg. 27):

Quote

Emperor Manarlavus said that it would be useless to fight against it. He said that he and everyone had been born from eggs, which had protected them from the elements while they grew. Now, to hide from the glacier, they had to go into a shell again. He showed them how he would encase the whole empire within an impenetratable shell.

He called the Ten Sons and Servants, and instructed them on what he wanted. Then he sent his tax collectors to take what they needed for this task.

However, the gods of Nivorah City refused, and even insulted the emperor. They said that they were tired of following ineffective emperors, and that they had a better way to survive, and a better ally to help them. Then they showed everyone the first horses, trained and ready to ride.

Shargash was angry, and cried for war against the heretics. But Manarlavus commanded prudence and patience, and sent the army to build instead of fight. Emperor Manarlavus instead cursed the rebels, condemning their god’s name to be taken from him. Indeed, it was, for that god has not been known since the curse and the men of Nivorah had to choose a new one.

 

[jajagappa]

26 minutes ago, Leingod said:

Though on that note, I will point out that "Zarkos" is actually one of the potential names for an Ergeshite lion-warrior who comes to duel one of your clansmen in an event, so that's interesting given what @jajagappa had to say about it the last time I brought it up (though it seems the Ergeshites either are, or are predecessors of, the goat-herders known as the Sidarsi at the time of the Dawn).

Whether the Zarkosites and the Sidarsi derived from the same original people and represented two distinct branches, or were always two separate folk, I never really decided.  These days I probably lean to the former (with the latter group being those who survived after the lion-headed god was slain, wounded, or lost to them).  The Zarkosites worship Durbaddath the Lion Father, Uryarda the Goat Mother, and Zarkos the Ancestor, suggesting a hunter/herder mix.  The Sidarsi on the other hand were entirely mountain-dwelling goat herders worshiping Sidar the Horned Goat Father and Miapora the Mountain Goat Mother.  The Sidarsi are, of course, the originators of the Imtherian cheese-making culture.

What you'll note from the Guide p.709-711, is that the Zarkosites are settled in the Gap of Tork at the site named Zulox.  This is a hill (possibly some buried ruin) that in the 3rd Age Jannisor uses as one of the anchor points to bind the Mad Sultanate in Tork.  (The Zarkosites of course are long, long gone by then.  Perhaps they are one of the origin stocks for the folk of Garsting and Jarst, but I'm sure no one knows that in 3rd Age.)

IIRC "ergesh" just means "slave" in DH, so they could be any of those folk (or others on the DH periphery).

 

 

 

[Sir_Godspeed]

51 minutes ago, Leingod said:

• Ar-Tarima
• Aryash-Tev
• Char-Orisa
• Chov-Ashda
• Dar-Shama
• Er-Charkar
• Ku-Rander
• Lo-Arish
• Mor-Kagin
• Nar-Onon
• Oro-Tagin
• Paral-Un
• Sa-Gorin
• Tor-Ashda
• Varn-Rash
• Yu-Mergin

Aryash is related to the Eel-Ariash name
Char- can be found in the Char-Un.
-Un is also in the Char-Un.

So yeah, several references to modern Solar Pelorian/Pentan words.

[Leingod]

26 minutes ago, jajagappa said:

The Sidarsi on the other hand were entirely mountain-dwelling goat herders worshiping Sidar the Horned Goat Father and Miapora the Mountain Goat Mother.

The Ergeshites explain when asked that they worship Father Goat (a.k.a. Sidar Goatfather) and Mother Goat (who they don't explicitly call Uryarda, it's your own clan who makes that connection, though they also don't dispute it at all), so that checks out.

26 minutes ago, jajagappa said:

(The Zarkosites of course are long, long gone by then.  Perhaps they are one of the origin stocks for the folk of Garsting and Jarst, but I'm sure no one knows that in 3rd Age.)

Interestingly, @Sheliak noticed in the debug files that the Northern Wheel kingdom of Naztalvan is identified as Garsting, and that the clan you can make friends with there is the Gar-Astin, whose chieftain Varairunas embarks on a ritual that brings him to the Sky World, from which he returns glowing like the sun and living as an ascetic in a "specially constructed solar dome."

Edited July 9, 2021 by Leingod

[jajagappa]

1 hour ago, Leingod said:

The Ergeshites explain when asked that they worship Father Goat (a.k.a. Sidar Goatfather) and Mother Goat (who they don't explicitly call Uryarda, it's your own clan who makes that connection, though they also don't dispute it at all), so that checks out.

Well, I did provide David with a pile of my old myths for Imther and Saird, so interesting to see what got filtered into it. 🙂

[Leingod]

Now for another question I'd like to pose for those more well-versed in Pelorian history than I am (not a difficult feat, admittedly): Does anyone recognize this symbol on Relandar's (at right) chest? That might shed some light on who exactly Relandar is, from a Pelorian/Dara Happan perspective, because when I think about it he's pretty odd.

Obviously he's essentially Lhankor Mhy... but he's not Buserian, who has also been equated with LM before. Your clan can worship Buseryan as a separate god who provides different magic (namely that of literacy and record-keeping), whereas Relandar is a god of lore, wisdom, and tradition. He's the "god of elders," basically. So I guess in that sense he and Buseryan are essentially Lhankor Mhy split into two aspects: The urban scribe and the rural wise man.

The weird thing, though, is that he's consistently claimed to be Elmal's brother, which would make him a son of Yelm. So unless he really is "Nivoran Buserian" (which is weird since, again, your clan can choose Buseryan as one of the old gods of Nivorah you kept that others lost) he doesn't seem to fit that schema of Yelm's known sons, since he doesn't have his own city to rule or have a name that resembles any of them. Actually, the closest name to his own seems to be that of Reladivus. He might be some Nivorah-specific god unacknowledged by the rest of the empire, perhaps? It just seems weird to me that he's specifically Elmal's brother. That just seems like it would have certain connotations. And he doesn't seem to be a recent thing, either; the Wheels strive to innovate as little as possible and seem to only grudgingly accept new gods like Dostal and Inilla out of sheer necessity, but they like Relandar so much that your odds of getting them to show up for your rituals goes up if one of his worshipers is sitting on your Clan Circle.

[Joerg]

Reladivus is another name for the Lightfore deity elsewhere called Kargzant, Elmal, Yelmalio, or Antirius.

The symbol does not appear in the catalog of HeroQuest 1st edition runes, although the lower part resembles the rune of Pella the Potter goddess.

The horse-head tip of his head makes some relation to Reladiva/Redalda possible.

Could the symbol be a horse-yoke used for chariots? Or a horse bit?

[Akhôrahil]

On 2/19/2021 at 11:45 PM, Ladygolem said:

Aren't vendref forbidden from worshipping Orlanth, and worship Barntar instead? Maybe they worship Orlanth in secret?

There's even a HQ adventure about introducing Orlanth worship to some Vendref. It's understandable why you wouldn't want your slaves (or if you're nice, serfs) to worship a powerful martial god who says no-one can make you do anything.

Edited July 10, 2021 by Akhôrahil

[Tindalos]

16 hours ago, Leingod said:

Now for another question I'd like to pose for those more well-versed in Pelorian history than I am (not a difficult feat, admittedly): Does anyone recognize this symbol on Relandar's (at right) chest? That might shed some light on who exactly Relandar is, from a Pelorian/Dara Happan perspective, because when I think about it he's pretty odd.

Well, I've seen it elsewhere, but it only makes things more confusing.

That same chestplate is worn by the Golden Men, in the rituals of Nyalda Marriage Maker and Elmal Path Guardian. Golden Men can also be found in the lands of the Forosilvuli, and gift you because solar people need to stick together.

In the ritual of Nyalda Marriage Maker, you can gift them gold, and they'll use it to make more Golden Men.

It's possible they're actually Gold Wheel Dancers, who lived in the mountains south of the Forosilvuli, and had a connection to golden coins (with some saying that the Wheel coins were originally their remains I believe?) and one was brought back through worship of gold.

This doesn't necessarily help us locate Relandar, but due to a connection in iconography there could be a connection to Lokarnos.

Like the Gold Wheel Dancers, he is associated with gold and wheels. But he is also the Counting God (Glorantha Sourcebook page 103), and was once known as the Timekeeper (Guide page 647) for helping people tell the time in the Grey Age.

It could be possible that Relandar may have had some connection to Lokarnos that has been lost, when his transportation and trade aspects became more valuable than his records and social engineering.

[Leingod]

8 hours ago, Joerg said:

Reladivus is another name for the Lightfore deity elsewhere called Kargzant, Elmal, Yelmalio, or Antirius.

The symbol does not appear in the catalog of HeroQuest 1st edition runes, although the lower part resembles the rune of Pella the Potter goddess.

The horse-head tip of his head makes some relation to Reladiva/Redalda possible.

Could the symbol be a horse-yoke used for chariots? Or a horse bit?

In the normal Gloranthan canon that's true, but in the context of this game specifically Reladivus is actually the son of Elmal and served as the city god of Nivorah (basically, Elmal and Reladivus were to Nivorah as Shargash and Alkor are to Alkoth). His promotion to full-fledged Son of Yelm and face of the Lightfore deity in Peloria almost certainly comes later as a result of the curse Manarlavus laid upon the Nivorans when they refused his idea of hiding beneath a dome (though on the other hand the Samnali/Wheels still worship Reladivus in some form even after leaving Nivorah, so maybe that also plays a part of it).

Come to think of it, if we accept the above, and also that Elmal and Kargzant are indeed merely different masks of the Lightfore deity, then it means Manarlavus's curse on the Nivorans that they would forget their god's name was a great deal less successful than Plentonius claims it is (though what else is new when it comes to Plentonius and claims of an emperor's efficacy?), since it means they literally just slapped a new name and some new traits (suitable for their new lifestyle) on their god and went on with their business.

A relationship to Redalda is unlikely, since she's actually born within the timeline of the game and plays a major role in its ending, though not in a way that establishes a preexisting connection to Relandar or other Nivoran deities.

It actually might be both, now that I think of it, because Relandar is worshiped by both of the major groups of the Nivoran diaspora. These being the Hyalorings/Riders and the Samnali/Wheels (who are probably ancestral to all the chariot-riding Horse People at the Dawn).

57 minutes ago, Tindalos said:

Well, I've seen it elsewhere, but it only makes things more confusing.

That same chestplate is worn by the Golden Men, in the rituals of Nyalda Marriage Maker and Elmal Path Guardian. Golden Men can also be found in the lands of the Forosilvuli, and gift you because solar people need to stick together.

In the ritual of Nyalda Marriage Maker, you can gift them gold, and they'll use it to make more Golden Men.

It's possible they're actually Gold Wheel Dancers, who lived in the mountains south of the Forosilvuli, and had a connection to golden coins (with some saying that the Wheel coins were originally their remains I believe?) and one was brought back through worship of gold.

This doesn't necessarily help us locate Relandar, but due to a connection in iconography there could be a connection to Lokarnos.

Like the Gold Wheel Dancers, he is associated with gold and wheels. But he is also the Counting God (Glorantha Sourcebook page 103), and was once known as the Timekeeper (Guide page 647) for helping people tell the time in the Grey Age.

It could be possible that Relandar may have had some connection to Lokarnos that has been lost, when his transportation and trade aspects became more valuable than his records and social engineering.

I hadn't caught the use of the symbol by the Golden Men, that is odd. Though this is all kind of made weirder by the fact that the Golden Men seem to be "solar fragments" of some sort, little pieces of the dead and shattered Sun, at least some of whom are apparently mortal. Which I guess fits with them being Golden Men, who can use the bones of dead Fire gods to make more of themselves.

[Sir_Godspeed]

Him being Lokarnos is not a terrible shout.

My initial guess was some form of Yelm the Elder, but as his own son in a weirdo-divine way. Doesn't really feel very satisfying.

[Qizilbashwoman]

30 minutes ago, Sir_Godspeed said:

Him being Lokarnos is not a terrible shout.

My initial guess was some form of Yelm the Elder, but as his own son in a weirdo-divine way. Doesn't really feel very satisfying.

When was Lokarnos deified? He was a mortal; when was his story supposed to happen, before the Ice Age?

[Sheliak]

I am, ah, no longer qualified to speculate about the sequel--but for this game I think I can still do so! 

The Ergeshites do consider Uryarda the same as their Mother Goat--the ones who join you say that Sidar sent them to you because you also worship his wife, Mother Goat.  But "Uryarda" doesn't seem to be a name they use at all themselves.

For random names, the full player clan list is: Blazing Axe, Blue Arrow, Golden Hand, Night Shield, Star Dancer, Swift Mare.

(And Six Stars, but that's a special case.) 

The split clan names are Sunflower, Golden Colt, Sapphire Arrow, Fire Dancer, White Hoof, and Cloud Breaker.

Relandar... Elmal is specifically Shargash's half-brother: their father is Yelm, but they have different mothers. Perhaps Relandar shares Elmal's unknown mother? But he's definitely a solar god, which implies relation to Yelm, so that theory has holes in it...

I suppose he could have been the god of a lesser city near Nivorah, one that was absorbed into it? But that also seems rather unlikely. 

(But his splitting and recombining himself in his myth does rather put me in mind of the Golden Men--maybe he is a wiser solar fragment! One who chose to support Elmal rather than becoming another Small Sun out for himself.)

(I tend to wonder if Lokarnos = Rogoros, based on Lokarnos's cult minting coins with a wheel on them...) 

One thing I've been wondering--does anyone have a guess as to the identity of the City of Chimes, from the Chaos ancestral enemy backstory? I can't figure out which Dara Happan city that would be. 

[alakoring]

I’m pretty sure there is zero connection between the Gold Wheel Dancers and the Hyalorings (but given they are super obscure, perhaps there is one).

Lokarnos is on the Gods Wall, I don’t think he was ever considered mortal.