Are percentile systems making a come back?

[Dredj]

Here's a new one I found today: Ud100

[rust]

Here is another one:

Translight RPG

[fmitchell]

Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay has switched entirely to percentiles with a few supplementary d10 rolls (e.g. 1d10 + mods for damage, and Xd10 for sorcery spell casting).

Having said that, I don't think there's a "comeback", except that more game designers are looking for a simple unifying mechanic. Percentile fits the bill, but so do fixed NdX, dice pools, One-Roll Engine, Grimm's "Linear D6" system, etc.

Honestly, I hope the confusion and dismay around D&D Fourth Edition will provoke some gamers to look at alternative systems.

[Harshax]

There definitely is a trend, but I wouldn't say it was strictly percentile driven. Games have evolved quite a bit from the days where rules could be referenced as 1.2.1.3 - Character Routine, but that is not to say that games have gotten less complex.

In my opinion, it is the gamer that has evolved. There is a part of me that remembers the queer little straight-jackets I would don to play a game. Mostly it was an unyielding drive to understand game systems. I would accept just about anything to be part of a game, whether it was D&D, GURPS, or Palladium. But I think those rules evolved in a very small ecosystem where being different was far more important than being playable.

Currently, maybe 10 years, we see a shift in game design, where rules are defined more by genre. The early days of RPG's were forever compared to their ability to reflect perceived realities in wargaming. Now it is more important that rules reflect the reality of the setting. Robin D Laws, for example, made a tremendous game out of Vance's Dying Earth using nothing more than a d6. A percentile system wouldn't add much more if such a game was converted and might actually weaken the mechanics which make DE such a unique experience.

The universal language of discussing probability is a very powerful tool, but it isn't the be all and end all of gaming mechanics. This is evident even in d20 games. It seems to me that a percentile system adds a greater amount of transparency to gaming than most abstract systems, but transparency is not necessarily the goal of every game.

Warhammer is an excellent example of a pervy baroque style of game. It has percentages, yes, but also contains a magic system that doesn't follow the core mechanics exactly.

One argument I made in the BRP playtest forum is that magic, by its very nature, should be pervy to the core mechanics of the game. This was a difficult argument to make, as it is counterintuitive to the strengths of a percentile based mechanic. Nevertheless, it is an argument I am still willing to make, as the definition of magic, IMO, should not be so mundanely described using the same context to describe common action.

Please pardon my drunk posting. My excuse is that I am more reflective in these moments. While d100 systems consume most of my time, I remember with great affection the time I spent creating a game world/system based on Ultima II. A transparent, percentile based, mechanic was out of the question for me. It would still be, if I were to pick up that project again.

For me; again I apologize for the long rambling post; percentile based mechanics are best suited for game where the setting is more important than the rules which govern a characters interaction. Thoughtful games - that's what occurs to me, first and foremost. Games where the acquisition of power and the driving need of character development (powers, feats, abilities) is secondary to the interaction of players with the settings are more conducive to a simpler; and inclusive; percentile based mechanic.

Ok, I'm done. Did I even post to the right thread?

Yours in gaming,

Arthur

[rust]

For me (...) percentile based mechanics are best suited for game where the setting is more important than the rules which govern a characters interaction. Thoughtful games - that's what occurs to me, first and foremost. Games where the acquisition of power and the driving need of character development (powers, feats, abilities) is secondary to the interaction of players with the settings are more conducive to a simpler; and inclusive; percentile based mechanic.

An interesting idea, and indeed I prefer BRP for that kind of games - although

I still do not fully understand why a percentile system "feels better" for such

setting-oriented games.

[AikiGhost]

An interesting idea, and indeed I prefer BRP for that kind of games - although

I still do not fully understand why a percentile system "feels better" for such

setting-oriented games.

73% skill is so much more obvious than Stat +3 Skill +7 Situational Bonus +1 +1d20 vs target number, that you don't have to think about it. This means you can get on with roleplaying your character and involving yourself in the story.

[rust]

73% skill is so much more obvious than Stat +3 Skill +7 Situational Bonus +1 +1d20 vs target number, that you don't have to think about it. This means you can get on with roleplaying your character and involving yourself in the story.

Yes, it is probably really that simple, the game mechanics almost disappear

into the background and do not interrupt the story each time a die roll is

necessary.

[mhensley]

Here is another one:

Translight RPG

Hmmm... this sound interesting. It looks like a BRP version of Traveller. That's something I've been thinking of doing myself.

[Dredj]

I sent the makers of Translight rpg an email, but got no answer:(

[Dredj]

There definitely is a trend, but I wouldn't say it was strictly percentile driven. Games have evolved quite a bit from the days where rules could be referenced as 1.2.1.3 - Character Routine, but that is not to say that games have gotten less complex.

In my opinion, it is the gamer that has evolved. There is a part of me that remembers the queer little straight-jackets I would don to play a game. Mostly it was an unyielding drive to understand game systems. I would accept just about anything to be part of a game, whether it was D&D, GURPS, or Palladium. But I think those rules evolved in a very small ecosystem where being different was far more important than being playable.

Currently, maybe 10 years, we see a shift in game design, where rules are defined more by genre. The early days of RPG's were forever compared to their ability to reflect perceived realities in wargaming. Now it is more important that rules reflect the reality of the setting. Robin D Laws, for example, made a tremendous game out of Vance's Dying Earth using nothing more than a d6. A percentile system wouldn't add much more if such a game was converted and might actually weaken the mechanics which make DE such a unique experience.

The universal language of discussing probability is a very powerful tool, but it isn't the be all and end all of gaming mechanics. This is evident even in d20 games. It seems to me that a percentile system adds a greater amount of transparency to gaming than most abstract systems, but transparency is not necessarily the goal of every game.

Warhammer is an excellent example of a pervy baroque style of game. It has percentages, yes, but also contains a magic system that doesn't follow the core mechanics exactly.

One argument I made in the BRP playtest forum is that magic, by its very nature, should be pervy to the core mechanics of the game. This was a difficult argument to make, as it is counterintuitive to the strengths of a percentile based mechanic. Nevertheless, it is an argument I am still willing to make, as the definition of magic, IMO, should not be so mundanely described using the same context to describe common action.

Please pardon my drunk posting. My excuse is that I am more reflective in these moments. While d100 systems consume most of my time, I remember with great affection the time I spent creating a game world/system based on Ultima II. A transparent, percentile based, mechanic was out of the question for me. It would still be, if I were to pick up that project again.

For me; again I apologize for the long rambling post; percentile based mechanics are best suited for game where the setting is more important than the rules which govern a characters interaction. Thoughtful games - that's what occurs to me, first and foremost. Games where the acquisition of power and the driving need of character development (powers, feats, abilities) is secondary to the interaction of players with the settings are more conducive to a simpler; and inclusive; percentile based mechanic.

Ok, I'm done. Did I even post to the right thread?

Yours in gaming,

Arthur

Talking about pervy games, I bought this pdf: MAID Role Playing Game Published games don't get more pervy than this>:-> At least not in the western hemisphere:lol:

It uses a D6 mechanic. The character generation system is something else:D

Edited November 20, 2008 by Dredj

[rust]

I sent the makers of Translight rpg an email, but got no answer:(

The easiest way to contact MJD, the author of Translight, should be this:

Martin’s website, such as it is, can be found at http://www.martinjdougherty.co.uk/

and he can be contacted by email at martin-j.dougherty@virgin.net.

If you used any other E-Mail address, you could try to use this one to con-

tact Martin directly.

[Dredj]

The easiest way to contact MJD, the author of Translight, should be this:

Martin’s website, such as it is, can be found at Martin J Dougherty - my homepage

and he can be contacted by email at martin-j.dougherty@virgin.net.

If you used any other E-Mail address, you could try to use this one to con-

tact Martin directly.

Thank you. Maybe I'll give it a try later today.

[fmitchell]

73% skill is so much more obvious than Stat +3 Skill +7 Situational Bonus +1 +1d20 vs target number, that you don't have to think about it. This means you can get on with roleplaying your character and involving yourself in the story.

Well, The Most Popular Role-Playing Game isn't the best example of a simple die mechanic ... or it would be, if it weren't for TMPRPG's obsession with having modifiers for everything.

Spirit of the Century, and other Fudge-based games, are a better example: roll Fudge dice (bell curve from -4 to +4, average 0) and adjust your skill level up or down by that many steps, then compare to the difficulty number. Granted, Stunts and Aspects in SotC add to the die roll (in standard increments of +1 or +2; stunts rarely give +3), and the GM can adjust the usual difficulty number a bit based on the situation. Generally, though, there are only a few small numbers to deal with ... often just two compared to one. In that case, while most people can't rattle off the exact probability, you know higher is better, and that your die roll will usually only adjust your static numbers by +/-1 about 2/3 of the time (62.9% to be exact).

As much as I like BRP, I prefer roll-high bell-curve mechanics. Roll-high systems scale linearly with increasing power, while roll-low systems have to deal with "skills over 100%" sooner or later. Bell curves occur so often in nature that it's easy to justify their use in a game, plus they reduce the influence of luck in skill tests (e.g. an 18 or 3 is much less rare on 3d6 than a 1 or 20 on 1d20 ... never mind the "Linear D6" system in Grimm which is actually two exponentially decreasing curves).

[AikiGhost]

As much as I like BRP, I prefer roll-high bell-curve mechanics.

Thats the mathematician in you talking rather than the roleplayer!

As a GM i almost always like the simplest solution that gives vaguely in genre results. For semi realistic/dark genres thats always been BRP for me.