Bladesharp and Countermagic

[Avalon Polo]

In RQG, the example paragraph under Spellcasting Ability on page 254 says that additional magic points can be added to a Bladesharp spell to overcome Countermagic. But, the description of Countermagic on page 258 says

Quote

it does not interfere with previously enchanted objects, such as a sword with Bladesharp on it.

Which is correct?

[PhilHibbs]

2 hours ago, Avalon Polo said:

In RQG, the example paragraph under Spellcasting Ability on page 254 says that additional magic points can be added to a Bladesharp spell to overcome Countermagic. But, the description of Countermagic on page 258 says

Which is correct?

I think Countermagic is correct, at least it always has been in my experience. The Bladesharp text may be another inadvertent bring-over from RQ2, although I can't find it.

Edited October 7, 2018 by PhilHibbs

[Pentallion]

By "overcoming countermagic" they mean in a situation where you are trying to cast bladesharp on an object that already has countermagic up.  It's not talking about hitting a dude who has countermagic up with your bladesharpened weapon.

[womble]

1 hour ago, Pentallion said:

By "overcoming countermagic" they mean in a situation where you are trying to cast bladesharp on an object that already has countermagic up.  It's not talking about hitting a dude who has countermagic up with your bladesharpened weapon.

Concur. It's going to be a rare situation though.

The example could be better worded perhaps, since it doesn't say:

3 hours ago, Avalon Polo said:

...additional magic points can be added to a Bladesharp spell to overcome Countermagic...

It says two castings of Bladesharp (as an example of a variable spell) aren't cumulative (to emphasise the bit above which says: "... spells cannot be combined with one another to make them more effective...").

It then goes on to talk about adding points to Disruption to break through Countermagic as an example of something else. An example that doesn't need to be there since Boosting is dealt with quite adequately in the Magic chapter. That bit should probably say "See page 248 for ways to boost penetration of magical defenses." Or something.

[Pentallion]

Not a lot of people think of countermagic as the offensive spell it can be.  Cast countermagic 4 on that Humakti's sword before he goes to Truesword it and watch the consternation on his face.

[HreshtIronBorne]

Cast countermagic 6 from the Ernaldan right after the Humakti seriously wounds a guy. Also works great coming from allied spirits. 

[womble]

7 hours ago, Pentallion said:

Not a lot of people think of countermagic as the offensive spell it can be.  Cast countermagic 4 on that Humakti's sword before he goes to Truesword it and watch the consternation on his face.

To an extent, that trick depends on how visible your Glorantha considers Spirit Magic and its effects to be. If it's all flashy and glowy, the Humakti would probably realise something was up; still they'd need to decide how many MP to chuck into their True Sword casting to break the 'debuff', so you might just want to go with a Countermagic 1. If it's sneaky and invisible, you'll ruin the Death-wallah's day  

Of course (and off-topic), there's a good chance the first thing a Humakti does on a fighting day is cast True Sword + Extension-2 (for all-day sharpness), and then Countermagic it themselves at the start of a fight to help resist Dispel/Neutralise/Dismiss Magic.

7 hours ago, HreshtIronBorne said:

Cast countermagic 6 from the Ernaldan right after the Humakti seriously wounds a guy. Also works great coming from allied spirits. 

Kinda like a makeshift Seal Wound for non-Trolls   I think that also emphasises a big downside of using Countermagic (or even Shield) as a defensive spell (as it's mostly intended): better be fairly sure you're not going to need timely healing (from someone else - I'd say self healing doesn't have to breach the barrier, originating as it does from inside) before you put up those magical defenses. I wonder whether this consideration was the reason my longest-term RQ(3) group didn't use Countermagic much (as in, we realised the implication and so mentally pigeon-holed it as dangerous/niche/not-worth-spending-Free-INT-on, then filed the reason somewhere obscure) but I think that group had a few squirrelly members who would've spotted the offensive capabilities, and I don't recall it being used that way. I think we probably just didn't face many opponents who were more magically than physically threatening and assumed that 'friendly' Countermagic could be 'lowered' like resistance could.

[Julian Lord]

15 hours ago, Avalon Polo said:

Which is correct?

Technically both -- if you want to cast Bladesharp to enchant the weapon of an ally, and that ally is protected by Countermagic, then the extra points may be needed to succeed in doing so.

[PhilHibbs]

1 hour ago, Julian Lord said:

Technically both -- if you want to cast Bladesharp to enchant the weapon of an ally, and that ally is protected by Countermagic, then the extra points may be needed to succeed in doing so.

I think the jury is split as to whether Countermagic on you protects a weapon that you are holding.

[Joerg]

2 hours ago, PhilHibbs said:

I think the jury is split as to whether Countermagic on you protects a weapon that you are holding.

Indeed. I am willing to allow two or four inches of aura/breath to expand the notion of self that affects clothing, weapons etc. within that aura.

Anything protruding from that (cloaks, long weapons, backpacks) is not.

I am not quite convinced that CM can be cast on objects. If it can, you could cast it on a (rolled up) tent cloth, and then unroll it to have a CM screen covering several people, possibly even with narrow slits to fire arrows through. (Protection offers the same possibilities, in addition to making your parries more efficient if cast on a weapon.)

Edited October 8, 2018 by Joerg

[PhilHibbs]

1 hour ago, Joerg said:

I am not quite convinced that CM can be cast on objects. If it can, you could cast it on a (rolled up) tent cloth, and then unroll it to have a CM screen covering several people, possibly even with narrow slits to fire arrows through. (Protection offers the same possibilities, in addition to making your parries more efficient if cast on a weapon.)

It would not protect the people inside... although the Protection example is a good one. Yeah, if you can't do it with Protection because of your example, then you probably can't do it with Countermagic, although contrived examples aren't necessarily a perfect way to straighten out rules.

[Julian Lord]

4 hours ago, PhilHibbs said:

I think the jury is split as to whether Countermagic on you protects a weapon that you are holding.

Does it protect against Dullblade ?

I can't see that there's reason to be overly mechanistic about this, but if someone is overtly protecting himself against magic, it should hardly be ignored when allies seek to assist him magically without his knowledge let alone consent ...

There are old examples from RQ2 & RQ3 of needing to boost Heal with magic points to overcome Countermagic ...

Edited October 8, 2018 by Julian Lord

[Julian Lord]

2 hours ago, Joerg said:

I am not quite convinced that CM can be cast on objects

I can think of no reason why it couldn't -- none of the descriptions suggest any such limitation.