Sorcery Questions

[Marc]

I've got some questions about the Sorcery rules.  I've got one player in my online game running a Sorcerer.  There are a couple of areas where I felt the rules were incomplete, and have decided to come up with some house rules.  Obviously, there are several areas where the Sorcery rules are incomplete, just two that I've house ruled so far.  They both relate to casting a spell.  Even though I can find nothing at all about moving while casting a spell, it seems to me that you  shouldn't be able to( or at least not very much ).  I've also decided that any significant distraction should require a concentration check, not just receiving damage.

My player objects, strongly, to both of these.  I'm trying to be reasonable, so I thought I'd see what others have done, if anything.

My justification for not being able to move is the statement in the rules that while casting, the sorcerer is in a semi-trance.  That seems to me to preclude moving.  The player happens to have a cavalry mount, and also feels like he should be able to ride the animal while casting a spell.  I disagree with that as well.  I've no problem with him sitting on a motionless mount.  

As for a distraction requiring a concentration check, that just seems to make sense to me.  The player points out, correctly, that the rules only specify receiving damage as a trigger for a concentration check.

My gut feel is that it seems like an experienced Sorcerer could be a very powerful spell caster.  I am concerned about play balance without these house rules.

Another question is regarding to the time it takes to cast a Sorcery spell.  This is an area where I'm tempted to house rule to reduce the time, by either eliminating the 1 melee round delay, reducing the SR cost to 1 SR per MP, or maybe both.  I'm curious to know what the rationale for those rules is.

My player seems pretty upset about these house rules, and I'm trying to be fair.  But I am concerned about play balance in the long term.

 

Marc

[PhilHibbs]

20 minutes ago, Marc said:

My gut feel is that it seems like an experienced Sorcerer could be a very powerful spell caster.  I am concerned about play balance without these house rules.

You don't address imbalance by reducing the chance of the imbalanced thing from happening. That just introduces uncertainty, and you can't plan around it.

I think you are probably a little bit on the strict side, I'd allow relatively slow or steady movement of a trained mount without any penalty, especially if it isn't a directed offensive spell, and other distractions that are less than taking damage should be less distracting, so maybe INTx4 or INTx5 instead of x3.

The essential problem is that giving a player powerful abilities but taking away the chance to use them is not good. Better to have a fair chance to use a less powerful ability. Access to MP reserves is one way to constrain sorcerers, as is free INT.

Edited October 7, 2018 by PhilHibbs

[Marc]

Thanks for the feed back. I did notice in RQ3, it explicitly limited a Sorcerer to 1/2 meter/strike rank, which would have been 5 meters/melee round, of movement.  

[g33k]

9 minutes ago, Marc said:

...

My justification for not being able to move is the statement in the rules that while casting, the sorcerer is in a semi-trance.  That seems to me to preclude moving.  The player happens to have a cavalry mount, and also feels like he should be able to ride the animal while casting a spell.  I disagree with that as well.  I've no problem with him sitting on a motionless mount...

+1 to Phil Hibbs' comments.

I think riding in a trance is a likely proposition.  I'd probably just flat-out allow this for a Praxian or other born-in-the-saddle culture.

Skilled riders can SLEEP in the saddle, after all.

For "mere" professional skills, I'd probably allow a Ride roll, and only if it fails require the Concentration-check.

Adjust as seems right for a walking mount, get a bit harder for a canter or trot, be VERY hard at a gallop.

For walking on foot "in a semi-trance" I'd allow only a very-slow pace, and (except on flat surfaces) very likely to trip (and likely a Concentration-check!) .

[David Scott]

58 minutes ago, Marc said:

I've got some questions about the Sorcery rules.  I've got one player in my online game running a Sorcerer.

Ive got a sorcerer in my game too. His player was very good at analysing the rules.

58 minutes ago, Marc said:

Even though I can find nothing at all about moving while casting a spell, it seems to me that you  shouldn't be able to( or at least not very much ).

Sorcery is very much a time consuming practice. At the very least my player used ritual practices and rarely cast "on the fly" for example he would cast boon of Kargan tor in the morning to use it during the day. The rules clearly say:

Quote

Sorcerers must maintain concentration when casting spells. This limits a sorcerer to no more than a simple nod or shake of the head in response to simple questions. A sorcerer cannot attack, parry, or Dodge while casting a spell.

If you can only nod or shake your head, then moving is pretty much out. Planned movement, no surprise movement maybe. Sitting on a mount might be okay, but only if your culture practices mounted sorcery, much like any mounted practices.

58 minutes ago, Marc said:

I've also decided that any significant distraction should require a concentration check, not just receiving damage.

Any more than the nod and you cannot cast a spell, if you receive a surprise whack, you might be okay.

58 minutes ago, Marc said:

My justification for not being able to move is the statement in the rules that while casting, the sorcerer is in a semi-trance. That seems to me to preclude moving.

Correct.

58 minutes ago, Marc said:

The player happens to have a cavalry mount, and also feels like he should be able to ride the animal while casting a spell.  I disagree with that as well.  I've no problem with him sitting on a motionless mount.

If he came from a sorcery riding culture, I would have no problem limiting casting level to riding level. Otherwise no.

58 minutes ago, Marc said:

My gut feel is that it seems like an experienced Sorcerer could be a very powerful spell caster. 

Yes, but most stuff is cast before the adventure.

58 minutes ago, Marc said:

Another question is regarding to the time it takes to cast a Sorcery spell.  This is an area where I'm tempted to house rule to reduce the time, by either eliminating the 1 melee round delay, reducing the SR cost to 1 SR per MP, or maybe both.  I'm curious to know what the rationale for those rules is.

The flavour for Glorantha sorcery is that it takes time. More complexity and intensity = more time. Add in ritual practices and its slow but very powerful.There's an answer from Jeff on reducing casting time (or not) here:

 

[David Scott]

1 hour ago, PhilHibbs said:

Access to MP reserves is one way to constrain sorcerers, as is free INT.

This has actually not been a barrier at all in my game. My player got a magic point enchantment by sacrificing 3 points of POW and rolled 3D10 getting 25, has no spirit magic and 3 spells and an int of 18. 15 points of free INT. Inscribing helps straight off. Boon of Kargan Tor for 6 hours (intensity 7, 6MP) and +2D6 damage (intensity 8, 7MP) is only 15MPs for him. 

[BWP]

39 minutes ago, David Scott said:

If you can only nod or shake your head, then moving is pretty much out.

I can't agree with that.If the caster can nod in response to a query, then he has awareness that a query has been directed at him and can spare enough mental faculties to respond to it.  That's more than enough "spare" awareness in order to be able to move in a slow, controlled manner.  (Consider real human beings totally engrossed in their mobile phones moving from place to place every day.)  As a general rule of thumb I would prohibit anything other than slow movement, but would certainly allow it on a mount, in conjunction with a ride roll.  For a sorcerer on foot, if the terrain is at all cluttered or difficult, I'd probably ask for a DEX roll.  I wouldn't allow normal (or faster) movement.  If the mode of transport requires that the person actively hang on to something to avoid falling off/falling over, that would probably be enough to prohibit sorcery as the necessary hand movements would be impacted.  Similarly, if the sorcerer needs to perform some sort of ritualistic dance or other complicated movement as part of casting the spell, then that also is going to ko most forms of mounted movement (but not necessarily on foot).  And of course some specific spells or rituals might absolutely require that the sorcerer be stationary (e.g., something being cast within a mystic circle).

I agree that you should not "speed up" sorcery in ways other than those specifically allowed for in the rules.  A good sorcerer plans ahead and has already cast the spells he thinks he will need.

[jajagappa]

2 hours ago, BWP said:

I can't agree with that.If the caster can nod in response to a query, then he has awareness that a query has been directed at him and can spare enough mental faculties to respond to it. 

Consider one of our modern day equivalents.  You're in a team meeting watching a powerpoint presentation (the action around you).  You've got your laptop open and you're focused on finishing the spreadsheet you have open as it is due at the same time the meeting is to end.  You're generally aware of the presentation and discussions around you and nod occasionally when you see a face occasionally turn your way.  But you are focused and concentrating on the spreadsheet spell.  And then something in the powerpoint catches your attention that you know is wrong.  You've got to make a concentration roll to complete that one function and save the spreadsheet before responding.  But if it breaks your concentration, or you really have to respond or even answer a direct question, you've lost your focus on the spreadsheet.  If it hasn't fully broken your concentration, you readily pick back up.  If it has though, you discover you lost the wifi connection in the room without saving.

[David Scott]

10 hours ago, BWP said:

Similarly, if the sorcerer needs to perform some sort of ritualistic dance or other complicated movement as part of casting the spell, then that also is going to ko most forms of mounted movement (but not necessarily on foot).  And of course some specific spells or rituals might absolutely require that the sorcerer be stationary (e.g., something being cast within a mystic circle).

This is also something I overlooked. You don’t have to use use meditation or ritual practices to augment (although the bonuses are better), you could augment with your dance. I can see some schools incorporating ritual dance in their casting, although this is likely part of ritual practices as well.

[Mugen]

17 hours ago, David Scott said:

This has actually not been a barrier at all in my game. My player got a magic point enchantment by sacrificing 3 points of POW and rolled 3D10 getting 25, has no spirit magic and 3 spells and an int of 18. 15 points of free INT. Inscribing helps straight off. Boon of Kargan Tor for 6 hours (intensity 7, 6MP) and +2D6 damage (intensity 8, 7MP) is only 15MPs for him. 

Yes. Big available MP amount is not a limitation, but rather a condition to become very powerful with sorcery.

Edited October 8, 2018 by Mugen