So what happened to the Communication rune?

[Professor Chaos]

The Communication rune has been part of Glorantha since Cults of Prax and is still to be found in the Gloranthan Sourcebook (fully written up as a condition rune), the Guide and various other still-canonical sources.

And yet in RQG it is gone - other than as depicted in pictures of Issaries and Issaries cultists.

Is this deliberate or an oversight?

 

 

 

[Pentallion]

So you're saying we have a lack of communication?

[Richard S.]

In RQG Issaries rune has been replaced by Movement and Harmony (which are its composite runes anyways) so that you only need the runes on your character sheet.

[Jeff]

1 hour ago, Professor Chaos said:

The Communication rune has been part of Glorantha since Cults of Prax and is still to be found in the Gloranthan Sourcebook (fully written up as a condition rune), the Guide and various other still-canonical sources.

And yet in RQG it is gone - other than as depicted in pictures of Issaries and Issaries cultists.

Is this deliberate or an oversight?

 

 

 

The runes of Issaries are Mobility and Harmony. Together these are often expressed as “Issaries” or “Communication,” a rune unknown or unused except in trade functions. Other than Issaries few spirits have it, save those who took it from him.

[PhilHibbs]

1 hour ago, Professor Chaos said:

The Communication rune has been part of Glorantha since Cults of Prax and is still to be found in the Gloranthan Sourcebook (fully written up as a condition rune), the Guide and various other still-canonical sources.

And yet in RQG it is gone - other than as depicted in pictures of Issaries and Issaries cultists.

Is this deliberate or an oversight?

RQG doesn't use Condition runes as part of the game mechanics, so it isn't really relevant. It would lead to questions like "Why can't I have this rune", "why can't I cast my spells with it".

[Professor Chaos]

But if condition runes have no role in game mechanics then why does the mastery, magic, infinity and law rune make it into the book?

This seems to me to be a case of rules driving lore rather than lore driving rules - which seems retrograde given that RQG is supposed to re-integrate Glorantha back into the rules.

But as the man said YGWV.

[PhilHibbs]

1 hour ago, Professor Chaos said:

But if condition runes have no role in game mechanics then why does the mastery, magic, infinity and law rune make it into the book?

Of those only the Magic rune has a function, and only as a wildcard. Specific deity runes don't make the cut, so no Yinkin or Odayla or Eternal Battle rune either.

[SDLeary]

4 hours ago, PhilHibbs said:

Of those only the Magic rune has a function, and only as a wildcard. Specific deity runes don't make the cut, so no Yinkin or Odayla or Eternal Battle rune either.

Or probably, the others have a function which has not yet been revealed.

And with regards to Communication, my guess is that Jeff and crew found no reason for it in the vision of Glorantha that they were trying to fit into RQ. If they discover one later, I don't doubt that it will be loaded back in.

SDLeary

[scott-martin]

14 hours ago, Professor Chaos said:

And yet in RQG it is gone - other than as depicted in pictures of Issaries and Issaries cultists.

Love it. It's an emergent property and not something that exists in the world separate from the god. If you have Communication you're at least a reciprocal associate of Issaries (the god will find you) and if you're in Issaries you have Communication. Probably at exactly the same rating as your Worship.

This is different from most "conditions" that rarely have personified divine sponsors. Of course the western brethren alienated Communication from the god and pursued pure exchange on its own like it was some other condition rune, but they're generally dead now. 

[Jeff]

8 hours ago, Professor Chaos said:

But if condition runes have no role in game mechanics then why does the mastery, magic, infinity and law rune make it into the book?

This seems to me to be a case of rules driving lore rather than lore driving rules - which seems retrograde given that RQG is supposed to re-integrate Glorantha back into the rules.

But as the man said YGWV.

Mastery Rune WILL apply in the game - it something that can be gained, but not something any character starts with. Magic is in use already. Infinity is the sign of gods and so forth, so not part of player characters. Law symbolises all of sorcery, again not something a character starts with. 

[Crel]

51 minutes ago, Jeff said:

Mastery Rune WILL apply in the game - it something that can be gained, but not something any character starts with.

Oh, now you're just taunting us! But seriously, that sounds cool as heck. Looking forward to those developments...

[womble]

From an admittedly basic perspective, I'm seeing the Communication Rune supplanting Harmony for Issaries Initiates-and-higher. Issaries Initiates might get the Communication Rune at the same rating as their Harmony Rune at the point of/as part of Initiation, and while largely synonymous, it will have a different flavour for when Augments (for example) might be relevant. So using it as a way to have game mechanics reflect a different world view.

[Joerg]

1 hour ago, womble said:

From an admittedly basic perspective, I'm seeing the Communication Rune supplanting Harmony for Issaries Initiates-and-higher. Issaries Initiates might get the Communication Rune at the same rating as their Harmony Rune at the point of/as part of Initiation, and while largely synonymous, it will have a different flavour for when Augments (for example) might be relevant. So using it as a way to have game mechanics reflect a different world view.

Mechanically, such a transition could be a great boon, since it allows you to fully master that rune without destroying your humanity by completely suppressing the opposite power emotions.

[womble]

24 minutes ago, Joerg said:

Mechanically, such a transition could be a great boon, since it allows you to fully master that rune without destroying your humanity by completely suppressing the opposite power emotions.

Ah, that wasn't what I was intending, myself; it would still be the opposite/mathematical complement of the Disorder rune. If it were implemented simply as an additional Rune to use instead of Harmony, though, yeah.

[David Scott]

@Jeff has written an excellent section for Gods of Glorantha that covers "missing runes", summarised above. It specifically covers why they aren't on the character sheet or available to human adventurers. It covers form runes, conditions and partial runes. It doesn't have the issaries / communication rune as it's a "god" rune. 

One of the main reasons for stepping back to just core runes for RQG is that it makes understanding the world easier for newcomers and simplifies the game system. A paragraph here and there to cover a little used rune, adding it to rune spells, etc. makes books bigger, cutting other stuff. The rune is still part of canon, just not part of this game system. 13G only touches on it and then suggests replacing it with the Stasis rune(!)

If you look through the art in the new books you'll see lots of the "god" runes there, look on page 302 & 302 at Irripi Ontor's & Yanafal Tarnil's headgear - you will see their god runes from way back in Hero Wars. @Nick Brooke did a great guide to the lunar ones here : http://etyries.albionsoft.com/etyries.com/moonie/moonrune.html 

 

[David Scott]

1 hour ago, Joerg said:

Mechanically, such a transition could be a great boon, since it allows you to fully master that rune without destroying your humanity by completely suppressing the opposite power emotions.

But isn't that the point of RuneQuest, getting your runes up to such a power that they become an overwhelming drive in your life. The opposite of Harmony is Disorder, merchants would certainly benefit from the loss of individualistic, impulsive, contrary, greedy, thoughtless, and egocentric behaviour. Likewise losing Stasis is also beneficial. I'd be interest to hear how you define humanity in Gloranthan terms.

 

[Joerg]

33 minutes ago, David Scott said:

But isn't that the point of RuneQuest, getting your runes up to such a power that they become an overwhelming drive in your life.

That works fairly well with the elemental runes, of which you have at least three in RQG, allowing you to adjust your balance while approaching a more magical state with values well above 100%.

With the opposing Power runes, any such progress makes you unsufferable. An individual with 100% in Mobility isn't necessarily holy when displaying all the symptoms of ADHS. If your trader cannot even stand still at his market stall, how shall he communicate with customers?

Take that picture of the Swenstown street scene. Neither Harmast nor the Issaries trader haggling with him is fidgeting all over the place. Neither is Vasana, who is resting rather motionlessly. To me this indicates that none of them are in the psychotic bracket of the Change rune.

 

33 minutes ago, David Scott said:

The opposite of Harmony is Disorder, merchants would certainly benefit from the loss of individualistic, impulsive, contrary, greedy, thoughtless, and egocentric behaviour.

Since when has a good measure of greed been detrimental to a merchant? Those overflowing with Harmony may be well liked, but will go broke at least as badly as Gringle, and probably never even achieve a portion of the wealth the broke Gringle had in his pawnshop when attacked in the classical scenario.Apple Lane is the epitome of egocentric behavior - the entire hamlet is set up to serve Gringle, who certainly is an individualist.

33 minutes ago, David Scott said:

Likewise losing Stasis is also beneficial.

How did Gringle manage to settle down at all, without any stability in his life?

33 minutes ago, David Scott said:

I'd be interest to hear how you define humanity in Gloranthan terms.

A certain measure of Stasis is quite desirable for a Garzeen merchant overseeing a stable market at a city, with moderately stable prices and a stable flow of goods. Likewise, a Desert Tracker would be well advised to have some remaining Disorder to counter Chaos in the Wastes. And I feel that an overdose of Harmony is quite harmful in haggling - while keeping it all in an amiable environment, a certain bickering and teasing is required to get the best price out of the opposition.

[David Scott]

45 minutes ago, Joerg said:

With the opposing Power runes, any such progress makes you unsufferable. An individual with 100% in Mobility isn't necessarily holy when displaying all the symptoms of ADHS. If your trader cannot even stand still at his market stall, how shall he communicate with customers?

These are personality traits, not physical manifestations.

Quote

To be strong with the Movement Rune is to be changeable, energetic, rebellious, and ambitious. Such adventurers can adapt quickly to changing circumstances, but are also impulsive and reckless.

I'd suggest you reread the rune traits section.

[David Scott]

52 minutes ago, Joerg said:

How did Gringle manage to settle down at all, without any stability in his life?

He didn't really. Look at his Pawnshop now. He was alway off doing other stuff, being a rebel and all that.

[Professor Chaos]

Also less than happy with the binary opposed rune ratings and their so strongly driving personality traits.

Back in the day we used to joke about one-dimensional characters (remember Onslaught the Humakti?), but the system now seems designed to produce such characters.

It may perfectly represent Glorantha for my and every other 99% Death rune Sword of Humakt to be a relentless, ruthless, ascetic killing machine but I guess am not sure that works for me.

[Ultor]

I was just rereading Plato's Republic Books VIII and IX (the long winter nights just fly by...) and was struck by the section in IX about the soul as being in tension between the monster and the man (there's a third element, the lion, but let's ignore that for these purposes). This sounds like beast and man runes to me. It made me think that Western Philosophers could be all about perfecting one element of these dual powers to the detriment of the other, which is how Plato defines the just man.

As my campaign has a need for these right now, I am taking Plato as my guide. The Hrestoli will be all about perfecting the man part of man/beast (which seems to fit with the Guide), the Rokari will be all about perfecting harmony over disorder (they really don't like people rocking the boat), and Ashara/Caselain will be all about Movement. This gives me runes to base the sorceries around and perhaps the basis for Vows if I'm going to introduce that mechanic into sorcery.