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So does anybody remember Hawkmoon? ElfQuest?

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13 minutes ago, Mugen said:

French edition of Hawkmoon was more successful than the US one, and had an interesting line of supplements. It even had a second edition, based on Elric! rules.

The book on France was simply one of the best background books I've read for a game, with a different mood for every region (swashbuckling in Aquitior, waterworld in Alsaz, island of Dr Moreau in Auvergne, Arthurian myth in Brittany, and so on) and lots of scenario or even campaign ideas.

Probably not a big surprise as the story is centered mostly around Castle Brass in the  the Kamarg (Camargue region of France). So it was more "local".

I also think part of the reason why Stormbringer/Hawmoon/etc. wasn't as successful as it might have been was that it was always a secondary line, to RQ2 in the early days, and then to RQ3 and CoC. So producing any  stuff for Strombringer projects took resources and manpower away from more successful lines. Supplements prodced by companies other than Chaosium didn't have this problem.

I wish the French book had been translated. I can muddle through a little French but it's been a long time since I took it in school. 

 

13 minutes ago, Mugen said:

ElfQuest, on the other hand, only had a core rulebook...

The was an Elfquest Companion, and EQ got a 2nd edition softcover book to replace the boxed set. Part of the problem with ElfQuest as an RPG was that there was only so much information to work with and Chasoium couldn't really add much to it without risking alienating fans and/or the Pinis by changing things. 

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15 hours ago, Atgxtg said:

Probably not a big surprise as the story is centered mostly around Castle Brass in the  the Kamarg (Camargue region of France). So it was more "local".

I also think part of the reason why Stormbringer/Hawmoon/etc. wasn't as successful as it might have been was that it was always a secondary line, to RQ2 in the early days, and then to RQ3 and CoC. So producing any  stuff for Strombringer projects took resources and manpower away from more successful lines. Supplements prodced by companies other than Chaosium didn't have this problem.

In contrast, CoC still remains immensely popular in France, and StormBringer was much more popular than RQ3 (RQ2 was never translated).

It's certainly because SB was the first to be released, but the lighter rules was also certainly more appealing to french audience taste than RuneQuest (not counting the fact french edition was based on RQ3...). Glorantha also seemed very intimidating as a setting compared to the Young Kingdoms.

Part of the reason for Hawkmoon's success was that it was seen as a "sequel" to StormBringer.

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I loved the ElfQuest comics back in the 80s, and collected most of the anthologies over the years.

I don't think BRP was a great system to portray the flavour of it, something like WEG D6 would have been much better - today Fate Accelerated or HeroQuest may be a good fit

 

Edited by Mankcam
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5 hours ago, Mankcam said:

I loved the ElfQuest comics back in the 80s, and collected most of the anthologies over the years.

I don't think BRP was a great system to portray the flavour of it, something like WEG D6 would have been much better - today Fate Accelerated or HeroQuest may be a good fit

 

Yeah that's probably true. The comics had a certain style that didn't adapt all that well to the system.. Usually Chaosium would adapt the game system to the setting, but EQ was indeicat to RQ3 except for starting skill scores and using jewelry for armor . If I recall correctly the RPG came out during the height of ElfQuest's popularity, so there wasn't as much to work with, and the project might have been a bit rushed to capitalize on that popularity.

 

Considering how personality dreven the story was, something liek Pendragon or better yet Prince Valiant might have suited the comics better.

 

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6 hours ago, Mugen said:

In contrast, CoC still remains immensely popular in France, and StormBringer was much more popular than RQ3 (RQ2 was never translated).

Was RQ3 horribly expensive like it was in the UK, with trimmed down basic editions and more pricey advanced rules? I think that was one of the things that really hurt RQ3. AH tended to price things like a wargame, which was higher than the pricing of most RPGs, a factor that was made much worse oversees. That and the long delay in getting and signfically new Gloranthan content. 

6 hours ago, Mugen said:

It's certainly because SB was the first to be released, but the lighter rules was also certainly more appealing to french audience taste than RuneQuest (not counting the fact french edition was based on RQ3...). Glorantha also seemed very intimidating as a setting compared to the Young Kingdoms.

Yes, Glorantha is an intimidating setting. Yes, in recent decades we have "Your Glorantha May Vary" but it takes a certain amount of understanding of the setting before a GM will consider it to be Glorantha. Golrantha's level of detail and uniqueness works against it in that regard - especially back them when there wasn't that much out about it in print. 

 

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15 hours ago, Atgxtg said:

Was RQ3 horribly expensive like it was in the UK, with trimmed down basic editions and more pricey advanced rules? I think that was one of the things that really hurt RQ3. AH tended to price things like a wargame, which was higher than the pricing of most RPGs, a factor that was made much worse oversees. That and the long delay in getting and signfically new Gloranthan content. 

As far as I remember, StormBringer cost 210 French Francs (~21£ I think) and RuneQuest 224. So, no, the difference in price can't explain why SB was much more popular.

And we did not wait very long before getting Gloranthan content, as the boxed set included an introduction to Glorantha instead of Fantasy Europe (even though Cormac remained a Pict in the rules examples). The only non-gloranthan material published were one generic game master's book and Land of Ninja (thanks to the success of L5R, I think - GURPS Japan was translated almost at the same time as LoN).

The company that translated RQ, SB and Hawkmoon also issued a magazine that had lots of excellent content for all three games, especially concerning Glorantha.

15 hours ago, Atgxtg said:

Yes, Glorantha is an intimidating setting. Yes, in recent decades we have "Your Glorantha May Vary" but it takes a certain amount of understanding of the setting before a GM will consider it to be Glorantha. Golrantha's level of detail and uniqueness works against it in that regard - especially back them when there wasn't that much out about it in print. 

I learned it the hard way. I tried to play with the first translated supplements (Gods of Glorantha and Glorantha : Genertela, Crucible of the Hero Wars), but it was obvious my game didn't look like Glorantha at all.

Edited by Mugen

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I ran and played more games under (original) Hawkmoon rules than any other d100/BRP in my original adolescent hey day of roleplaying. Especially after I read The Dragon In The Sword and added the Mittelmarches.

I think that the gaps (due to very unfortunate circumstances surrounding writing and publication) invited adding rules more than any other setting. And then as now I loved to meddle and add bits. Plus the fun of having magic and sci-fi in one setting was great (no coincidence that WH40k and Shadowrun have both done so well commercially for so long). And finally the setting  having a no nonsense good guy and absolutely pitch-black, baby-eating, bastard bad guys may have made the books less sociology or literature interesting, but it did invite adventures and heroics.

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On 11/1/2018 at 7:13 PM, Atgxtg said:

Yup. I think the biggest difference between RQ3 and EQ was that EQ didn't use skill bases or categories but instead determined the skill scores by characteristics. For example Dodge was (INT+DEX) x2, and one melee and missle weapon started at (STR+DEX)x2. Possibly to simply and streamline things. I wonder if things had gone differently, and  Steve Perrin written and RQ4 if skill categories would have been eliminate d, or maybe simplified down to a formula such as STR+DEX for manipulation.

Ah that takes me back to a spot of cognitive dissonance from several years ago.

I feel guilty (in all likelihood the superstitious guilt one feels when wearing the wrong colour underpants or using the lavatory at the wrong point in a game and one's team loses) over MRQ using the sum of two characteristics for each skill algorithm.

During early (open) MRQ playtest I asked the question about how skill base chances would be calculated. Laying out a continuum from what I thought was elegant and ideal (having a common base chance for all skills in a category and that being calculated as the sum of two characteristics) through the various EC and RQ models and onto what I thought was the needlessly fiddly and time-consuming EQ method (of working out EACH individual skill's base chance with its BESPOKE sum of two values).

Mong opted for the latter and I was furious, mainly with myself for presenting the idea in a forum where it had not previously been discussed. Of course they probably had already decided on that approach and just hadn't released that tidbit yet.

But then: Steve Perrin (STEVE PERRIN!) made a statement along the lines of he agreed with me and that's what he was already doing in his games. The only analogy I can think of in my professional life would me making a suggestion about Physics education and Richard Feynman weighing in to say 'yup, I agree, good idea, that's what I do.'

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LOL! I have a BRP variant where I used the skill category modifiers as the base chance (by not taking the -10 off the the primary stats). So a character could pick up any weapon that they lacked skill in at the  same base chance. It really helped to streamline character creation and bookkeeping, as you only needed to track those things that had been improved above the base, and it is really only a minor difference in the base % score.

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6 minutes ago, ColoradoCthulhu said:

I found this blog post from today (Wayne's Books) with many photos of the Hawkmoon box set.

And I have not seen that in years, ah it does that take me back. I was moving 400 k away to the mountains so I let my best friend  have it for cost when I was selling off stuff for moving expenses and to save space (and I recall buying it second hand so not a large amount cash). When I moved back, a few years later  he moved 6 hours south, so I have not seen that since the 80s.

Thanx

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