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UristMcTurtle

Theyalan-centric history.

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Well...I'm a native spanish speaker so, sorry if this post contains some mistakes.

I've fallen in love with Glorantha since few months, and, honestly, is the most complex setting wich i've seen until now. The cultures, the epic, epic mythology and the history...Man, the autors did a pretty great job.

If i'm saying this, is because my intention is not attack or make a critic, but rather share a ..."odd" sensation wich i have while reading the guide. I love Glorantha, and maybe this is caused by ignorance, but...Well...

While reading, i have the sensation that the information presented in the guide is very, very Theyalan-centric, or, at least, very Theyalan-Pelorian centric. 

Notice please that i'm not saying "Glorantha is Orlanthi-centric" because i know the lot of information, mythos and perspectives guiven in other suplements, but rather signaling a idea that don't leave my head: I don't know much of the God-Learnes besides his monomythic perspective of the world, but, if the history and mythology present in the guide is based in they studies, it seems that the great empire was in love with the Orlanthi mythology, or at least with the esqueleton of that narrative. 

I understand that a semi-unified baseline is necesary in the guide, because you can't simply throw contradictory myths to the reader without context, or without traying to consolidate his diferences, but...I don't know...It seems to me that, rather than a monomyth, is the Orlanthi mythology fused with some critical sections of other narratives. Even in the in-time history, sometimes, rather than a cold description of events, when talking about Orlanthi-related things it becomes a epic narrative, wich is good...But odd at the same time.

That, fused with the fact that the center of the Hero-Wars if Dragon Pass, and the events of King of Sartar, almost elevate the Orlanthi to a kind of collective main character, not of an era (wich is normal, even in the real world: countries and empires becomes the center of civilization during they golden ages) but the entire story. 

I'm not saying that is necessary give more protagonism to other countries, but if would be cool if in the myths we can see more perspectives of the god-time, wich other cultures have in plenty quantities. With all the information and perspectives until now, is easily grew bored about the Orlanthi, even when they are really, really epic and complex.

Again, sorry if i'm talking with ignorance. 

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This is absolutely my impression as well, and I was actually considering making a thread on the use of Theyalan terminology as the closest we get to a "default" language in Glorantha in official publications.

But yeah, I think you're pretty much right, and I think there are a few reasons for it. The first, and perhaps most obvious reason, is that it is because Kerofinela and Kethaela (Dragon Pass and the Holy Country), the Theyalan core area, are the most well-developed areas in Glorantha, both mythically, but also from a more mundane view, as it pertains to adventuring and roleplaying, therefore using the terms that are used in these areas to welcome new players makes sense. The same probably applies to a lesser degree to Peloria.

The second, I think, is more in-universe, and a bit more subtle. The Theyalan core area was one of the first areas in Glorantha to initiate cross-cultural cooperation during the Dawn, and so they very early on had a surprisingly "cosmopolitan" culture, where exchanges between humans, trolls, elves, dwarves and even dragonewts and others created a terminology that was probably quite good at expressing a wide set of myths and ideas (In my personal experience, Heortling and Uz mythology/religion seem to be pretty well-integrated into each other. They're not the same by any stretch, but they also don't contradict each other to a large degree, and there is a focus on personal initiation into voluntary cults in both cultures).

In fact, it seems that when the God Learners rolled around, they borrowed a number of Theyalan terms and concepts, from what I can tell.

In the publications I've read, Pelorian terms are usually used whenever there is a hole in the Theyalan terminology, for example when referring to the rise of the Red Goddess, the internal politics of Dara Happa, and the particulars of the Celestial Realm.

But in short, "omniscient narrator" texts in publications about Glorantha have a "Theyalan bias", as it were, from what I can tell. (I'm a bit of a newbie too.)

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3 hours ago, UristMcTurtle said:

Well...I'm a native spanish speaker so, sorry if this post contains some mistakes.

I've fallen in love with Glorantha since few months, and, honestly, is the most complex setting wich i've seen until now. The cultures, the epic, epic mythology and the history...Man, the autors did a pretty great job.

If i'm saying this, is because my intention is not attack or make a critic, but rather share a ..."odd" sensation wich i have while reading the guide. I love Glorantha, and maybe this is caused by ignorance, but...Well...

While reading, i have the sensation that the information presented in the guide is very, very Theyalan-centric, or, at least, very Theyalan-Pelorian centric. 

The Theyalans are indeed one of the major sources for the monomyth - after all, they recovered from the destruction and oblivion of the Greater Darkness building syncretic myths from those stories (and storytellers) that survived that period of hopelessness, destruction and intellectual apathy. Memories of the Unity Battle prior to the Greater Darkness and the recent shared experience of I Fought We Won brought Elder Races and humans of the region into a closer exchange than anywhere else.

The dominant human influences among the Theyalans were the Heortlings and the Esrolians, though by no means the only ones. The later God-breeding experiment (after disposing of the horse warlords back into Pent) brought the Pelorian side of many myths of the Orlanthi into the greater picture understood by the Theyalans, and the expansion of the Bright Empire collected Serpent Brotherhood wisdom and some of the weirder (to our ears) old gods names of the western "advanced Hsunchen" like the Enerali, Pendali or Enjoreli into the mix.

The God Learners came with the knowledge of the Seshnegi of both ancient Malkioni myths (in two versions - the philosophical and occasionally abstract one of the Zzaburites, and the more earthy Brithos cycle), a little bit of the sea myths as shared by the Waertagi, and their own ancestral connections to the Pendali and the local earth cults from the Serpent King era, and found this intriguing syncretic web of human and non-human myths in the Lhankor Mhy libraries of the more civilized Theyalans. And then they got hold on parts of the Arkati knowledge, of people experienced in navigating myths of various origins like a topological map, able to jump stories and to get into secrets without even joining those cults.

The vast amount of material written down by the barbarian sages was way better organized and interlinked than the semi-forgotten non-Malkioni myths of the Seshnegi and the Olodo Jrusteli - those dealt with the harm done to them by the Vadeli and by the Serpent Beast Brotherhood. This is why the (non-Malkioni) Monomyth is based on the Theyalan knowledge of the Elder Race myths, the Heortlings' own Orlanthi myths, and those myths involving their neighbors (from previous cooperation or forced exposure during the Bright Empire and the short-lived occupation of Dara Happa).

The Monomyth understanding of Pelorian myths proper is very limited. Entekosiad is an almost unsorted collection of old myths that never made it into the Monomyth, and Plentonius' Glorious ReAscent of Yelm tells of Yelmic lore prior to exposure to the Theyalan view of such things. The horse nomad perspective was pretty much lost, too, except for few Hyaloring influences here and there.

 

Armed with their own Abiding Book and the Theyalan-based monomyth, the Jrusteli sorcerers and later heroquesters felt that they would have a good entry point to wherever there are Elder Races. And given the success of the aldryami, uz and mostali, there were few corners of Glorantha where they didn't have such entry points. They did try and assimilate non-Theyalan/Elder Race Pamaltela and the East, too, but even their best successes were based on half-truths derived from their Theyalan-inherited perspective.

 

3 hours ago, UristMcTurtle said:

Notice please that i'm not saying "Glorantha is Orlanthi-centric" because i know the lot of information, mythos and perspectives guiven in other suplements, but rather signaling a idea that don't leave my head: I don't know much of the God-Learnes besides his monomythic perspective of the world, but, if the history and mythology present in the guide is based in they studies, it seems that the great empire was in love with the Orlanthi mythology, or at least with the esqueleton of that narrative. 

The Theyalans are the humans with some of the best partial insight to the other major elder races. The Lightbringer Missionaries of the early Dawn Age had spread that body of mutual reconstruction to much of Genertela, shared much with those neighboring high cultures they managed to ally after overcoming the horse warlords, and then promoted many unified myths in the vast area of the Bright Empire while absorbing some of those ancient stories surviving.

The Theyalan web of myths was far from perfect. The Lightbringers myth used by Harmast Barefoot used stories from "wrong" ages of the Gods War, but the syncretic story allowed Harmast to go to Hell and back and even liberate a major former enemy. Twice.

The Arkati questers learned a lot more about how those myths intersected, ran parallel, and where you could jump story-lines. When the Jrusteli first got hold of the Arkati lore from their plundered libraries (those that were not burned upon the Rightness Crusaders' arrival), they were as unable to decode what the Arkati had written as we modern people are decoding alchemists allegorical descriptions for quite mundane laboratory procedures. (C.G. Jung's take on alchemy was highly biased. He openly disregarded alchemical lore that was clearly and actually working in the lab as of limited worth because it didn't fit his pre-conception of dream-interpretation through archetypes. Jung's bias is a fault quite similar to the strict application of Campbell's monomyth as per the Hero of the Thousand Faces, and another good real world parallel for the God Learner folly.)

3 hours ago, UristMcTurtle said:

I understand that a semi-unified baseline is necesary in the guide, because you can't simply throw contradictory myths to the reader without context, or without traying to consolidate his diferences, but...I don't know...It seems to me that, rather than a monomyth, is the Orlanthi mythology fused with some critical sections of other narratives. Even in the in-time history, sometimes, rather than a cold description of events, when talking about Orlanthi-related things it becomes a epic narrative, wich is good...But odd at the same time.

That, fused with the fact that the center of the Hero-Wars if Dragon Pass, and the events of King of Sartar, almost elevate the Orlanthi to a kind of collective main character, not of an era (wich is normal, even in the real world: countries and empires becomes the center of civilization during they golden ages) but the entire story. 

I'm not saying that is necessary give more protagonism to other countries, but if would be cool if in the myths we can see more perspectives of the god-time, wich other cultures have in plenty quantities. With all the information and perspectives until now, is easily grew bored about the Orlanthi, even when they are really, really epic and complex.

Again, sorry if i'm talking with ignorance. 

No, your analysis is absolutely on spot.

The Monomyth should be read in archetypes, and it used to be written as such, like the alliterative names of the elemental (srvuali in unpronouncable Zzaburite speak) rulers of the Celestial Court, like Dame Darkness, Sir Sea, Empress Earth and Lord Light. Identifying these with the deities of their conquered (or part-time conqueror) neighbors of Pendali, Enerali, Enjoreli and Serpent Beast Brotherhood deities or with the Theyalan syncretic story building on Harmast's Lightbringers myth and their Silver Age exchanges did help to create a sequentially readable overview of the surviving bits of Godtime after the Greater Darkness.

Prior to the publication of the Guide to Glorantha, the best history of Glorantha available was the one in Troll Pak. The overviews from Cults of Terror and the Glorantha Book in RQ3 Genertela box were nice, too, but lacked the cohesion of the tragedy of the uz and how they dealt with it.

Glorantha Sourcebook offers an updated version of the Glorantha offerings in the early (5-14) issues of Wyrm's Footnotes, giving the Lunar perspective. Reading this book really gives off the impression that the Orlanthi and Lunar conflict dominates the Hero Wars, and yes, to a certain extent it does. But, as usual, so much more is going on elsewhere.

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7 hours ago, UristMcTurtle said:

I'm not saying that is necessary give more protagonism to other countries, but if would be cool if in the myths we can see more perspectives of the god-time, wich other cultures have in plenty quantities. With all the information and perspectives until now, is easily grew bored about the Orlanthi, even when they are really, really epic and complex.

 

With now a full three Gloranthan RPGs out, I really wish one of them would take the time to focus on anything but Dragon Pass and the Argrath part of the HeroWars (with a splash of Prax)! I mean no offence, and I realize they're running a business, and products like Red Cow were excellent, but the Dragon Pass focus is really pretty extreme! There are modules I would like more than yet another Dragon Pass or Prax book.

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11 hours ago, Akhôrahil said:

With now a full three Gloranthan RPGs out, I really wish one of them would take the time to focus on anything but Dragon Pass and the Argrath part of the HeroWars (with a splash of Prax)! I mean no offence, and I realize they're running a business, and products like Red Cow were excellent, but the Dragon Pass focus is really pretty extreme! There are modules I would like more than yet another Dragon Pass or Prax book.

@Ian Cooper is working on a Fonrit book (for HeroQuest: Glorantha), I believe.

 

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6 minutes ago, Steve said:

@Ian Cooper is working on a Fonrit book (for HeroQuest: Glorantha), I believe.

This sounds excellent - Red Cow was fantastic, and Fonrit has an great HeroWars storyline. I really hope it focuses on having a HeroWars playable campaign (the way Red Cow did) rather than just being setting material. I will take a campaign over a setting book any day of the week.

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2 minutes ago, Akhôrahil said:

This sounds excellent - Red Cow was incredible, and Fonrit has an great HeroWars storyline. 

With @Ian Cooper at the helm, it can't fail to be great!

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Fonrit is a very interesting place, especially in the context of Pamaltela not having been much in the spotlight ever, afaik.

Wonder when it will be set. Oh well, a conversation for another topic.

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16 hours ago, Akhôrahil said:

This sounds excellent - Red Cow was fantastic, and Fonrit has an great HeroWars storyline. I really hope it focuses on having a HeroWars playable campaign (the way Red Cow did) rather than just being setting material. I will take a campaign over a setting book any day of the week.

While I personally wouldn't mind a campaign, I'd vastly prefer setting material. The most I generally want from a scenario is the setup, after which things are free to move as they will, dictated by the actions of the players and other movers and shakers. 

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13 hours ago, Lysus said:

While I personally wouldn't mind a campaign, I'd vastly prefer setting material. The most I generally want from a scenario is the setup, after which things are free to move as they will, dictated by the actions of the players and other movers and shakers. 

I think  @Ian Cooper hit that nail on the head with the Red Cow by putting setting info in "The Coming Storm" and the campaign laid out in "The Eleven Lights." I think a similar approach might have been stronger with the earlier Sartar books as well, though SKoH was already having to do double-duty pagecount-wise, filling in much of the Glorantha-specific stuff that didn't  fit in HQ2CR's appendix.  The Red Cow books are in a better starting position with HQG as a foundation (plus the earlier Sartar books for supplemental info).

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On 11/19/2018 at 1:35 PM, Joerg said:

The Monomyth understanding of Pelorian myths proper is very limited. Entekosiad is an almost unsorted collection of old myths that never made it into the Monomyth, and Plentonius' Glorious ReAscent of Yelm tells of Yelmic lore prior to exposure to the Theyalan view of such things. 

The "WTF is all this now?" reaction I had when picking up The Entekosiad was a wake-up for me WRT the extent to which the Heortling+Esrolian+Dara Happan perspective is incomplete. We barely know anything about the perspectives of other cultures present in the central corridor (Grazers, Pelandans, Vanchites, Lodrili, Kitori, etc.) let alone folks farther afield.

If we ever get a proper Ralios book, I would very much like to get a look at both the Enerali and non-Heortling Orlanthi perspectives on the world and lore (to say nothing of all the Arkatic madness). Things have to be different there,  with Elhim &  Humath/Orlanth as rivals but the Evil Emperor is Malkion. 

On 11/19/2018 at 1:35 PM, Joerg said:

The horse nomad perspective was pretty much lost, too, except for few Hyaloring influences here and there.

Six Ages is a real eye-opener in this respect (and takes some of the sting out of Elmal getting bulldozed in the new RQ books).

Edited by JonL
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Yeah, the Entekosiad was definitely an eye-opener for me too. I'd previously read the King of Sartar, both the volumes of the Guide, the GRoY, and browsed the wiki extensively, and I thought I had things sorta figured out to an extent.

Then Valare Addi hits me with a massive load of "you know nothing, Jon Snow." Later on, when reading Revealed Mythologies, this new perspective has only been strengthened, although I don't think even Pamaltelan or Vithelan myths feel quite as radical to me now as Pelandan myths did back then. That's probably why I like them so much.

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35 minutes ago, Sir_Godspeed said:

... I don't think even Pamaltelan or Vithelan myths feel quite as radical to me now as Pelandan myths did back then. That's probably why I like them so much.

You expect things to be hella different way across the world. To find something so alien right next door is a big surprise

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Just now, JonL said:

You expect things to be hella different way across the world. To find something so alien right next door is a big surprise

Hah, you sound like my anthropology professors now. 😄 But yes, exactly.


More concretely, it was one of the first times I was introduced to the idea of a complex look into a pre-Golden Age world. The Malkioni, Theyalan and Draconic views on that period are so abstracted or vague that not a lot of things can be said, imho, but in the Entekosiad we have lots of stories of named individuals going around and doing things, and not necessarily in an outright paradisical situation as well, making it somewhat nuanced. Lots of food for thought.

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1 hour ago, Sir_Godspeed said:

More concretely, it was one of the first times I was introduced to the idea of a complex look into a pre-Golden Age world. The Malkioni, Theyalan and Draconic views on that period are so abstracted or vague that not a lot of things can be said, imho, but in the Entekosiad we have lots of stories of named individuals going around and doing things, and not necessarily in an outright paradisical situation as well, making it somewhat nuanced. Lots of food for thought.

Entekosiad does provide the notion of Godtime being cyclical, unlike the linearized version of Plentonius describing Yelm's Sunstop, and the God Learners mistaking that state of stagnation as the extent of the Golden Age. Naveria and the Red King provides a model for cyclical male rulership during the likewise cyclical reigns of the White Queen mothering her successor self.

If Plentonius is even only half right, then 60% of Yelm's reign (and more than 100% of Murharzarm's reign) occurred with conflict (aka Umath) present in the world. And that's just the cycle of Brighteye, unnaturally extended after usurping imperial power from the White Queen.

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On 11/19/2018 at 2:14 PM, UristMcTurtle said:

Well...I'm a native spanish speaker so, sorry if this post contains some mistakes.

I've fallen in love with Glorantha since few months, and, honestly, is the most complex setting wich i've seen until now. The cultures, the epic, epic mythology and the history...Man, the autors did a pretty great job.

Welcome to Glorantha and I hope you enjoy it for many years to come.

 

On 11/19/2018 at 2:14 PM, UristMcTurtle said:

While reading, i have the sensation that the information presented in the guide is very, very Theyalan-centric, or, at least, very Theyalan-Pelorian centric. 

Yes, this has always been the case.

dragon Pass is the centre of many of the things of Glorantha. It was the seat of the Storm Gods, the site of the Dragonkill and where the original RQ Campaign was set. 

Areas around Dragon Pass have been explored, but nothing to the depth of the Orlanthi and their Pantheons. Even Peloria, which is probably the next best explored area, has much less material. If you include Theyalans and Pelorians togther, then, yes, absolutely, this is where most of the things are happening/have happened.

Orlanthi lands are important and the Lunar Empire is important. Other areas are less important. Prax and Balazar have been published, some areas in the West have been touched on. Other areas have been sketched out, but nowhere near as detailed as Dragon Pass, Peloria and, maybe, Prax.

 

On 11/19/2018 at 2:14 PM, UristMcTurtle said:

I understand that a semi-unified baseline is necesary in the guide, because you can't simply throw contradictory myths to the reader without context, or without traying to consolidate his diferences, but...I don't know...It seems to me that, rather than a monomyth, is the Orlanthi mythology fused with some critical sections of other narratives. Even in the in-time history, sometimes, rather than a cold description of events, when talking about Orlanthi-related things it becomes a epic narrative, wich is good...But odd at the same time.

The Monomyth has a varied past in Glorantha.

On the one hand, the events of the Monomyth happened and you can HeroQuest to them to prove that they happened.

On the other hand, the Monomyth is a Frankenstein's Monster, stitched together from the Myths and Stories of many deities. Where bits contradict each other, they are left out. Where a Myth support it, the Myth is included, where it does not support it, the Myth is left out.

Did other things happen outside the Monomyth? Absolutely.

Did the deities of the Monomyth do other things that are not described in the Monomyth? Of course.

Does the Monomyth answer all the questions about Gloranthan Mythology? Not at all.

Can we discount the Monomyth entirely? Of course not, at it happened.

A lot of people have written background that deliberately goes against the Monomyth or confuses events, changes names and so on. This is fine from an artistic point of view, but an absolute nightmare for GMs and Authors, who have to unpick everything and relate it back to the Deities.

On 11/19/2018 at 2:14 PM, UristMcTurtle said:

'm not saying that is necessary give more protagonism to other countries, but if would be cool if in the myths we can see more perspectives of the god-time, wich other cultures have in plenty quantities. With all the information and perspectives until now, is easily grew bored about the Orlanthi, even when they are really, really epic and complex.

A lot of people became bored with Prax, years ago, and are bored with Orlanthi now, so you are absolutely right.

The trouble is, when people publish material for other areas of Glorantha, they just don't sell as well, from what I have learned from conversations at conventions.

So, you can publish something for, say, Kralorela and sell a thousand copies, or for Dragon pass and sell ten thousand copies (I am making these figures up).

On 11/19/2018 at 2:14 PM, UristMcTurtle said:

Again, sorry if i'm talking with ignorance. 

No, you have hit the nail on the head, as we say.

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On 11/21/2018 at 3:46 PM, Sir_Godspeed said:

Yeah, the Entekosiad was definitely an eye-opener for me too. I'd previously read the King of Sartar, both the volumes of the Guide, the GRoY, and browsed the wiki extensively, and I thought I had things sorta figured out to an extent.

The trouble with the Entekosiad, in my opinion, was that is was a flawed thesis trying to prove something that was not true. I believe that it was trying to prove that Entekos was Ernalda, but I could be completely wrong.

It had wonderful myths, loads of HeroQuesting stuff and so on, but was designed to be fundamentally flawed. 

Having said that, it is a great read.

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It was trying to prove that Entekos was Dendara. It didn't quite manage that (although it did show Entekos had the title of "the Dendara", iirc, literally meaning "the Virtuous"). This perspective has since been accepted in some Dendaran temples, *I think*, the specifics are escaping me right now. There's some one-way-compatible rituals going on.

Valare Addi did this after having tried to prove that Dendara was the Red Goddess - *I think*, also, which she was blinded for, so that's apparently way wrong. It seems that the Entekosias is a newer thesis.

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6 minutes ago, Sir_Godspeed said:

It was trying to prove that Entekos was Dendara. It didn't quite manage that (although it did show Entekos had the title of "the Dendara", iirc, literally meaning "the Virtuous"). This perspective has since been accepted in some Dendaran temples, *I think*, the specifics are escaping me right now. There's some one-way-compatible rituals going on.

Valare Addi did this after having tried to prove that Dendara was the Red Goddess - *I think*, also, which she was blinded for, so that's apparently way wrong. It seems that the Entekosias is a newer thesis.

An identity of Dendara and Entekos is more or less true - it isn't bi-directional, but Dendara and Entekos share a lot of myths. Entekos has myths unknown for Dendara.

The real quest of Valare was IMO to prove an identity of Entekos with the Red Goddess. That was a major failure. But then, there is no clear identification for She Who Waits.

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19 hours ago, soltakss said:

A lot of people have written background that deliberately goes against the Monomyth or confuses events, changes names and so on. This is fine from an artistic point of view, but an absolute nightmare for GMs and Authors, who have to unpick everything and relate it back to the Deities.

I totally see how it's a nightmare for DMs and authors, and how it makes the universe more dense and opaque to newcomers - but on the other hand, trying to shove everything into a neatly mutually-non-exclusive pattern isn't necessarily the goal either.

I know people disagree on the larger, underlying ontology of the God Time, but there is at the very least a decent argument to be made for that the God Time was an existence where multiple events could be true and untrue at once, and so looking back at it as if though it should all fit into one objectively true (however nuanced and sprawling) narrative is forever doomed to fail.

I'm not sure who wrote it, but to paraphrase something that stuck with me: "So in the Compromise, which myths will be true? All of them."

I say this, of course, as someone who is always looking to connect puzzle pieces and make things fit together. But I try and carry two truths in my head at once when it comes to God-Time "multiveracity", as it were.

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19 hours ago, Joerg said:

An identity of Dendara and Entekos is more or less true - it isn't bi-directional, but Dendara and Entekos share a lot of myths. Entekos has myths unknown for Dendara.

The real quest of Valare was IMO to prove an identity of Entekos with the Red Goddess. That was a major failure. But then, there is no clear identification for She Who Waits.

And given that Hon-Eel 'proved' that She Who Waits was Ernalda, or more broadly, the Earth itself, perhaps we ought to note the unclearness of the boundaries between Ernalda and Dendara, sisters, and co-wives, of Yelm/Brightface?

We may also note that the Moon was birthed from the Earth... And that Entekos is called 'Mother of Moons'.

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The monomyth is a creature of its time, be that Cambell's concepts or that of the Godlearners.

Greg knew it was flawed, being imposed on myth by systematicians rather than a reflection of its complexity.  To suggest that others introduced ideas contrary to it ignores Greg's own work that shatters the Monomyth.  The Entekosiad is critique, not in error

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On 11/23/2018 at 2:46 PM, Sir_Godspeed said:

... the God Time was an existence where multiple events could be true and untrue at once, and so looking back at it as if though it should all fit into one objectively true (however nuanced and sprawling) narrative is forever doomed to fail.

I'm not sure who wrote it, but to paraphrase something that stuck with me: "So in the Compromise, which myths will be true? All of them."

I couldn't agree more.

"Which is true, Myth A that says that xyz happened, or Myth B that says that xyz didn't happen?". Both of them.

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In college I was once asked "Is the story of Noah truth or myth?" My reply was simply "It is myth, and therefore true."

 

This, for me, is the guiding principle of the HQ. Myth makes truth, not vice versa

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